Template:Did you know nominations/Ground billiards

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:01, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Ground billiards

(

• Back to T:TDYK
• Article history

)

Engraving from Charles Cotton, showing a version of ground billiards played on a table.

• ... that modern cue sports games such as snooker and nine-ball can be traced back to the game of ground billiards (artistically pictured), played with hoops and mallets? Stein, Victor; Rubino, Paul (2008) [1994]. The Billiard Encyclopedia (3rd ed.). New York: Balkline Press. ISBN 9780615170923.
  • ALT1:... that the game of ground billiards which billiard historian Michael Ian Shamos calls "the original game of billiards" was the precursor of many later, more familiar outdoor and indoor games, including snooker, nine-ball, and hockey? Source:Stein, Victor; Rubino, Paul (2008) [1994]. The Billiard Encyclopedia (3rd ed.). New York: Balkline Press. ISBN 9780615170923. / Shamos, Mike (1999). The New Illustrated Encyclopedia of Billiards. New York: Lyons Press. ISBN 9781558217973 – via Internet Archive.
  • ALT2:... That versions of ground billiards were played as early as 360 BCE, such as Pagnica played by Romans?http://www.golf-information.info/origins-of-golf.html
  • Would like to see something on this included, though would mention croquet as well. If paganica is mentioned, spell it right and don't capitalize it. :-) It'd be better to use an actual ground image, not the one from Cotton's book showing the intermediate indoor phase. I lean toward Alt. 1, though without name-dropping Shamos in particular. Alt. 2 doesn't really track with the article, which suggests (or, rather, the RS suggest) origins well into classical Greece. And "sports games" is redundant. So, maybe this:
    Alt. 3: ... that modern cue sports such as snooker and nine-ball evolved from the ancient lawn game now called ground billiards, a precursor also of croquet, golf, and hockey?
    That strikes me as combining the more interesting aspects of several versions, without dwelling on old Latin terms (or Greek ones), or unduly focusing on Shamos (most of the research is the work of Stein & Rubino, who've devoted decades to it).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  17:42, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Virgin and Child (Sirani)

Moved to mainspace by Lee Vilenski (talk) and SMcCandlish (talk). Nominated by Lee Vilenski (talk) at 12:37, 4 March 2019 (UTC).

Interesting facts, on good sources, no copyvio obvious. The image is licensed, and a good illustration. In this case, I suggest to have the history section first, and put it in chronology. I read that it is open if it's also a precursor to golf, so would not want to mention that in a hook. If Shamos relied mostly on Stein & Rubin, perhaps don't single him out in the lead? - Late sign: --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:44, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

I've moved the history section to the top of the page. The Shamos phrase is mostly due to it being a good representation of what the game actually is, but I can change it around if you have an alternative. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:44, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Offline sources accepted AGF. I prefer the original hook. - Thank you. Please think about chronology within history, and avoiding of text "sandwiched" between images, but no reason not to approve. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:44, 18 March 2019 (UTC)