Template:Did you know nominations/Ha Lachma Anya

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by ツStacey (talk) 07:55, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

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Ha Lachma Anya[edit]

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Created by Notecardforfree (talk). Self-nominated at 22:44, 7 April 2016 (UTC).

  • New enough, long enough, interesting hook, hook fact checks out, no close paraphrasing found. Good to go! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 16:02, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
  • Pursuant to a discussion at this article's talk page, the assertion contained in this hook has been removed from the article. As a replacement, I suggest the following:
ALT1: ... that The Malbim and Ra'avyah trace the origins of Ha Lachma Anya to Babylon?
@Crisco 1492: Thanks so much for taking the time to review this. I would also like to thank in advance whomever reviews the new hook. Best, -- Notecardforfree (talk) 06:27, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
  • @Notecardforfree: this article has definitely improved. But ALT1 is going to be understandable to only a small number of learned readers. What do you think about:
  • ALT2: ... that according to Abravanel, Ha Lachma Anya should be said "at the entrance to the house, with the door open, so that paupers can hear the invitation and enter"? Yoninah (talk) 23:10, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
@Yoninah: ALT2 sounds great. I agree that ALT1 is obscure, and I have struck it accordingly. Thanks again for your help and guidance with this. Best, -- Notecardforfree (talk) 15:34, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
Reviewer needed for ALT2 - ASAP! Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 17:08, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
I'm responding to a request for a review of the hook for Passover. The article seems fine. However, the source says according to "the Abarbanel", which seems to refer to a book, while the hook links to the person Isaac Abravanel. I can't find anything in the article that relates the two. Also, the hook seems to be a close paraphrase of the source. I believe more of it should be placed in quotes, or better paraphrased. -Zanhe (talk) 19:33, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
@Zanhe: Thanks so much for taking the time to review this article. I placed more language from the sentence in question inside quotation marks to avoid close paraphrasing. As for your question about Abarbanel, Isaac Abravanel is commonly known as "Abarbanel" (the article for Isaac Abravanel explains that he is "commonly referred to just as Abravanel, also spelled Abarbanel", see also Abravanel). Let me know if you think there is anything else that needs to be done for this article. Best, -- Notecardforfree (talk) 19:44, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
Please pardon my ignorance, but I had checked both articles you referred to during the review. My question arises from the phrase "The Abarbanel" in the source, which does not seem to refer to a person. -Zanhe (talk) 19:51, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
@Zanhe: Isaac Abravanel was also known as "The Abarbanel" (see this biography from Chabad.org and this article from The Jerusalem Post). Many Jewish scholars have the title "The" before their names (see, e.g. The Rambam); it is a somewhat unusual naming convention in English, and I apologize for not explaining this in my previous response. Best, -- Notecardforfree (talk) 20:07, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Thanks for your explanation. I'm now satisfied with the accuracy of the hook, and glad to have learned something new today. I made a minor adjustment to the hook, putting more in quotes to avoid close paraphrasing. All other criteria are met. ALT2 is good to go for Passover. -Zanhe (talk) 20:22, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
  • Sorry, @Zanhe:, after I wrote it I also thought that general readers wouldn't understand the reference. How about this:
  • ALT3: ... that a classic Jewish commentator on the Haggadah suggests that Ha Lachma Anya should be said "at the entrance to the house, with the door open, so that paupers can hear the invitation and enter"? Yoninah (talk) 20:19, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
  • Wait a minute. I think this would work best. It also gives it some context:
  • ALT4: ... that in times past, the head of the household would go out to the street to say Ha Lachma Anya, thus inviting people who needed a meal to join him at the Passover Seder? Yoninah (talk) 20:24, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
Wow, the situation is developing fast. I was just writing my comment on ALT3 when it was being stricken out :). Yes, ALT4 is much easier for lay people like me to understand, but I suggest changing "people who needed a meal" to simply "poor people", as per cited source. -Zanhe (talk) 20:38, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
  • @Zanhe: Fine.
  • ALT5: ... that in times past, the head of the household would go out to the street to say Ha Lachma Anya, thus inviting poor people to join him at the Passover Seder? Yoninah (talk) 20:52, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
  • Great, ALT5 is verified and good to go. I recommend adding "Jewish" before "household" to make the hook clearer, but it's probably fine without, as it's implied in "Passover Seder" later on. -Zanhe (talk) 23:01, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
  • It will also be clear from its placement in the Passover prep set. The mystery about the hook is what Ha Lachma Anya is. Thanks for the review! Yoninah (talk) 23:06, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
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