Template:Did you know nominations/Higher Ground (Jennifer Rush song)

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Miyagawa (talk) 23:59, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Higher Ground (Jennifer Rush song)[edit]

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~~... that before Celine Dion covered Jennifer Rush's "The Power of Love", she had previously covered Rush's "Higher Ground" ... in French?~~

Comment: I wrote the stub and about two sentences (the two YouTube links) of the article - not enough, in my opinion, to deserve a DYK credit for this and thus not a self-nomination.

5x expanded by Max24 (talk). Nominated by Launchballer (talk) at 19:06, 22 October 2014 (UTC).

(Not a review; just a casual observation:) The hook doesn't make sense to me. After a quick glance at the article, it looks like "she" in the hook should be replaced with "Celine Dion". Is that correct? MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 08:53, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

I amended the hook and found the detail that made it more interesting. However, the paragraph supporting the translation is uncited, and as a whole I am not sure there's enough standard prose in the article to qualify for DYK. Daniel Case (talk) 19:06, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

I have added a source to the unsourced paragraph. I can confirm that "she" should be replaced by "Dion".--Laun chba ller 23:56, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

I also think its an effective hook, but the article remains problematic, especially the section on the Jennifer Rush version: banal one-sentence subsections (she sings and dances on her music video? she sang the song on a television show?) are not adequate. (There's enough for a single short paragraph.) DYKcheck is counting the subheaders for each form of release, which means they aren't properly formatted; this would be right on the minimum length if those were omitted from the count, as they should be. Right now, I'm afraid the article does not deal adequately with the subject (WP:DYKSG#D7), and needs to be beefed up in the Rush section if it's going to be eligible for approval. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:32, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Please tell me how it looks now.--Laun chba ller 00:23, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Still inadequate. Citing a non-independent source for charting info? Not a good idea. Notability isn't even shown yet... no in-depth discussion of this song in sources. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:04, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the song passes WP:NSONG#C3 as it has been covered. However, I found one reliable source in my first 100-page screed of Google results that hasn't been used yet - this one and there's some more I can squeeze out of the offline album source. Otherwise, I'm stuck because not only has she not written any autobiographies, no biographies have been written about her.--Laun chba ller 23:18, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

New review request. Official chart archives are valid sources, according to the recommended chart list. I've removed the UK position because it's not given in the source provided and the other sources point that it only charted in Austria and Germany. If notability is still an issue please discuss it over at WP:AFD. Fuebaey (talk) 15:18, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

I have spent the last two weeks thinking Crisco was saying that the article used a Chartarchive.org reference. The Official Charts Company only goes down to 75, whereas Chartarchive.org displays the full 100. I have added a reference to Chartarchive.org.--Laun chba ller 20:14, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Neither here nor there as to the issues above, but you can't phrase the hook so that you're talking about a song by "Rush". Among other markers, the band's page was viewed 65,000 times in the last month versus J.R.'s 6000. I mean, yes, misdirection like that may increase click-throughs but we're trying to be informative here, not Buzzfeed.
ALT1: ... that Celine Dion covered Jennifer Rush's "Higher Ground"—in French—before recording her "The Power of Love"?
ALT2: ... that before she covered Jennifer Rush's "The Power of Love", Celine Dion had already covered Ms Rush's "Higher Ground" ... in French?
— LlywelynII 12:33, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
You're going to need an independent reviewer for that hook anyway, but I think it is perfectly reasonable to assume that Jennifer Rush is the Rush referred to in the hook given that she'd already been mentioned.--Laun chba ller 14:04, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
As with Ritchie below, no, it absolutely isn't. Grammar notwithstanding, Rush the band is much more famous than Ms Rush is and the hook has to be rephrased to accommodate that. — LlywelynII 06:46, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
Not being funny, but when I read "Rush's", I thought it was something to do with Geddy Lee and Neal Peart. So, instead, let's try

ALT3 : ... that Jennifer Rush's "Higher Ground" was covered by Mario Pelchat and Celine Dion in French as "Plus haut que moi"?

The citation for that is not great, but I can't obviously believe the sleeve notes to Pelchat would not say what the article claims it does and the Allmusic source for that album does not go into as much depth. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 19:05, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

ALT hooks need reviewing. (Struck original hook due to objections above.) BlueMoonset (talk) 21:17, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Approving ALT3. Striking ALTs 1 and 2 as I find the wording to be awkward. New enough as 5x expansion, long enough. Wording of article is neutral. Each paragraph has an inline citation. The hook is also within format, and at least marginally interesting. Note that the citation is a self-reference, but we're not establishing notability here, and per Ritchie333 it would seem very odd if the album notes do not confirm the presented fact (this isn't a lo-fi garage-rock release) and I am accepting the verifiability on AGF. At time of nomination, QPQ was not required for this. (Not self-nomination). No instances of copyvio detected in article, no image to confirm. This article should appear on Higher Ground (aka the main page) 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 17:31, 10 February 2015 (UTC)