Template:Did you know nominations/History of anarchism

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 01:02, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

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History of anarchism

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Improved to Good Article status by Cinadon36 (talk) and Czar (talk). Nominated by Miraclepine (talk) at 03:02, 10 January 2020 (UTC).

resolved
  • Note that I'm having trouble trying to word out the whole "anarchy older than society" thing, so I'll ask Czar and the reviewer to assist. ミラP 03:08, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
I wonder if it would be worth running a comparative hook, like "... that the history of anarchism ranges from the anti-globalization movement to prehistoric times?" or "... that in the history of anarchism, the X event was Y?". The "prehistoric" bit has a split article: Precursors of anarchism. Most of its contents are about ideological overlap with anarchist principles with no explicit link to what became known as the anarchist movement itself, so probably best to not make the history article's hook solely about prehistory. @Cinadon36, any ideas/thoughts on what might be interesting to call out on WP's main page? czar 11:36, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
Hi Czar, thanks for the ping. Well I 'd prefer something to be said/asked on the history of anarchism taken from the classical or current era. History of anarchism dating back to prehistoric times, it is an estimation shared by manys scholars, but not a hard fact. But it would be very difficult to find a fact because of the article being an abstract topic. So, may I suggest "... that French May was a turning point in the history of anarchism?" or "Proudhon was the first man in the history of anarchism to identify himself as an anarchist?" or "...the first time in the history of anarchism that the libertarian principles came closer to reality was during the Spanish Revolution of 36?" (I acknowledge that the latter is a little vague)Cinadon36 12:29, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
I like.
@Cinadon36, thoughts? (Each of these claims need to be directly cited within the article with an immediate citation.) czar 03:23, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
I like them both but I slightly prefer the forth option. Reason is that it makes sence to mention the classical era as that period gets the lions share compare to other parts of history of anarchism. I am ok with both alternatives though.Cinadon36 09:23, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
@Cinadon36, for ALT3's claim, the article cites Berry 2019, pp. 457–465. Do you have a more specific location for this specific claim? For ALT4's claim, the article cites Kinna & Prichard 2009, p. 270, and Yeoman 2019, p. 441, as the end of the Spanish Civil War being the decline of anarchist thought but do you have a source that asserts that it is also the end of the "classical era"? (The DYK hook's text needs to be directly supported within the article.) czar 15:43, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi Czar. For ALT3, the author does not specifically claims that it was a turning point, at least he is not using the specific words. Have a look at pp=464-465 (I can email you the book if necessary) I am adding a quote: "In that sense, it can be argued that 1968, as well as being the last nail in the coffin of orthodox Communism, also effectively redefined politics, and that we can find in 1968 the roots of the ‘unofficial politics’ which characterises the various ‘anti-capitalist’ movements of the 1990s and 2000s" But all pages cited are important as they set the context.

As for ALT4: Yeoman 2019 p 441: "Few anarchist movements have come close to the size and longevity of that which existed in Spain. The Republic’s defeat in the Civil War marked the end of a period of seventy years where libertarian ideas were articulated in mass movements across Europe and the Americas, in which the years of 1936–1939 stand out as a moment of great hope for anarchists in Spain and around the world, as well as great regret at what could have been..."

Kinna & Prichard 2009: "The end of the Spanish civil war is usually taken as the marker of anarchism’s death" Oh it is page 271, not 270. I 'll fix it. Cinadon36 22:11, 20 January 2020 (UTC) PS-fixed [1]Cinadon36 09:13, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Cool—let's just go with ALT4 then, if simpler. Modified as ALT5 below to match source. czar 11:49, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
  • ALT 5: ... that the 1939 defeat of Republican Spain marked the end of the history of anarchism's classical era? Yeoman 2019, p. 441; Kinna & Prichard 2009, p. 271.
    (Ready for a reviewer) czar 11:49, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
  • - article was promoted to Good article status on January 8 and so is eligible. It is easily long enough, and has not previously appeared on DYK. It appears well cited, and while some sources are offline, a spot check of online ones shows that they are appropriate and have been fairly represented, with no obvious copyvios. On balance, it appears neutral and well-written, covering a broad topic in a clear manner - it is a good article and it would be great to have it appear on the front page as part of DYK. QPQ is complete. All the proposed hooks are of appropriate length. The original hook is a fair summary but I'm not sure to where it is specifically sourced, and it's not especially interesting. ALTs 1 and 2 are phrased more strongly than the corresponding sentences in the article. ALT3 and ALT4 have been discussed above and superseded. ALT5 is getting there, with the general sense of it supported by the references, but is there a source describing the period leading up to 1939 as the "classical era"? Finally, while not a requirement for approval, there are numerous interesting images in the article - might one illustrate this hook? Warofdreams talk 17:17, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
Hi Warofdreams and thank you for your nice words. Here Carl Levy [2] sets the boundaries of the classical era of anarchism:

"This article is part of a broader project on the social history or histories of anarchism. The standard accounts of anarchism (Nettlau, Joll, Woodcock, Marshall etc.) have been combinations of the histories of ideas and political/social movements. A larger project I am engaged in uses another methodology and is reliant upon the vast outpouring of published and unpublished academic writing on social history that has been produced since the 1960s. I will cover only several interconnected themes here: anarchism, internationalism and nationalism in Europe. This article will give a synoptic overview of the internationalism of the European anarchist and syndicalist movements during the “classical” period of anarchism (1860–1939)..."Levy, Carl (2004). "Anarchism, Internationalism and Nationalism in Europe, 1860-1939". Australian Journal of Politics and History. 50 (3). Wiley: 330–342, Abstract. doi:10.1111/j.1467-8497.2004.00337.x. ISSN 0004-9522.

As for the images... I don't know, Czar any suggestions? Cinadon36 21:05, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
The article doesn't currently have a singularly iconic image for the classical era and I don't have in mind any specific image that captures the 1930s decline of anarchism. And, for what it's worth, I doubt that the main page really needs some kind of collage of Bakunin, Kropotkin, and a bunch of anarchist symbols. Let me ask a friend if they have any ideas. Otherwise, I think it's fine without an image. I'm going to strike the first four alt hooks per the above. czar 03:49, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for the reference, that is exactly what I was hoping existed! I think it would be good to add a line at the top of the section on the classical period referring to this definition, making clear that the term predates the article. If that is acceptable, then I'm happy to pass this hook. Warofdreams talk 17:32, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
I 'm glad you liked it, Warofdreams. Would this diff[3] be ok? I didn't use year "1860" since it is not a widely accepted margin as is 1939, as far as I know. Anarchism developed gradually during those early years of the "classical era". But the ending was rather sharp. Cinadon36 07:42, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
Added a little more re: start of era czar 11:31, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
- thank you for the quick and constructive responses, ALT5 is now ready for DYK. Nice work! Warofdreams talk 12:57, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
  • Hi, I came by to promote this pretty thorough article. But the article specifies that 1939 marked the end of the classical period of the history of "Western" anarchism. Yoninah (talk) 23:06, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
@Yoninah, I've removed "Western" from the article, which is about the history of [Western] anarchism, so the scope is implied. "Western" isn't in opposition to some other divergent lineage of anarchism (e.g., "Eastern" or something else). czar 00:36, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
  • Thank you. Restoring tick for ALT5 per Warofdreams' review. Yoninah (talk) 01:00, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
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