Template:Did you know nominations/Ildikó Raimondi

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 23:09, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Ildikó Raimondi[edit]

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Ildikó Raimondi in 2014

~~... that soprano Ildikó Raimondi, who appeared at the Vienna State Opera in more than 40 roles including Pamina and Mimì, participated in the 2006 opening of the Valencia Opera as Marzelline?~~ Source: several

Comment: Sorry for being a day late. I noticed only today when this was created. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:51, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
Reviewed: Christian Cabrol

Created by LouisAlain (talk) and Gerda Arendt (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 17:49, 10 January 2019 (UTC).

The article overall appears to be well-written, but quite a few entries in the Repertoire and Recordings sections are unsourced, so this will need to be fixed for DYK. I have a few concerns over the hook as well. First of all, the hook could be interpreted as the opera house opening in 2006, which is not true as it opened in 2005, so it may be better to change that part of the hook to something like "participated in the first opera staging of the Valencia Opera". Also, minor point but it isn't directly mentioned or cited in the article that the first opera was in 2006; this may not matter, but I know that many users like extra verification for DYK. Finally, the hook seems a bit long, especially the middle part. Maybe we should cut out the two examples of roles she played? It's interesting but it's not exactly the main purpose of the hook, we already have that she appeared in more than 40 roles there, and it makes the hook quite long. Cheers and thanks, --SkyGazer 512 ^{Oh no, what did I do this time?} 21:08, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Quick response (on vacation, patience please): Mimi and Pamina are short well-known roles, better-known than Marzelline, giving her profile (not all servants, but not dramatic either). How is this?

ALT1: ... that soprano Ildikó Raimondi (pictured), who appeared at the Vienna State Opera in more than 40 roles including Pamina and Mimì, participated in the opening season of the Valencia Opera as Marzelline? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:28, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick response and the new suggestion. Quite honestly, the length of the hook was the smallest concern I had and I'd be fine with approving this and if the potential promoter thinks that it's too long, then not promote it and request for it to be shortening. ALT1 looks good to me. Everything in it is mentioned in the article and cited, and it seems interesting enough. The sourcing concerns will still need to be addressed, but there's no rush; take as long as needed. :-)--SkyGazer 512 ^{Oh no, what did I do this time?} 04:42, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

SkyGazer 512, please look again --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:42, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, taking a look now... --SkyGazer 512 ^{Oh no, what did I do this time?} 02:17, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: This may seem minor, but because of WP:BLP and the description of the birth date parameter at Template:Infobox person/doc, can you source Raimondi's birth date inline?--SkyGazer 512 ^{Oh no, what did I do this time?} 02:46, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

The only issue I see is that 3 items in the Operetta subsection are unsourced. Once that issue is fixed, this should be good to go.--SkyGazer 512 ^{Oh no, what did I do this time?} 03:05, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

I moved the ref a bit, from name to birth. Everybody could have done that. The operettas: Kutsch (the same ref) names the composers of said works, the roles are on her website, and I spent (more than) enough time hunting for the other things. Remove them if you think it helps readers. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:23, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: Yes, anyone could have done that, but it's more practical to simply ask the nominator than for the reviewer to look through every single source to see if any of them contain her birth date. ;) I'd be fine with using the refs you mentioned for Raimondi's three unsourced Operetta roles if you think they're okay; after all, this is not FA or anything. Otherwise, we could comment out the roles until we can find better sources. Cheers, --SkyGazer 512 ^{Oh no, what did I do this time?} 23:48, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Anyone could have looked at the source for the second name (indicating that it's detailed). For opera singers, if you see the name Kutsch, that's the bible. - I saw the question about sourcing the birth date elsewhere, but for me, this was a first in 9 years of DYK ;) - Anybody can comment out the roles, and I will not be the one. Once upon a time, we had to source contentious claims only, then we had to have one citation per paragraph, and now we need a ref for every published book. My favourite review ever (received) was this. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:04, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, we can go with that; it's entirely possible that I'm being too picky. WP:V states all material must be attributable to reliable, published sources and WP:DYK#GEN4 states that Articles for DYK must conform to the core policies of Verifiability, Living Person Biographies, and Copyright, so that's where I was coming from. But because it's such a small amount and as you say, the book says the composer names and her website says the full roles, both of which are linked to somewhere in this article, I'm okay with a bit of lenience. I still would suggest adding her website and the book refs after those three roles, but it's your choice. The reason I was stressing having a source for the birth date is because this is a living person and birth dates should not be added unless they are widely published in reliable sources. Anyways, the article is new enough (one day late is fine), long enough, well-written enough with good sources, and there is no copyvio that I can see. The hook is fully cited and interesting, with no obvious issues. QPQ has been done and image is free, used, and shows well. Most of the sources are in German, so AGF there. This should be good enough now. :) --SkyGazer 512 ^{Oh no, what did I do this time?} 15:17, 7 February 2019 (UTC)