Template:Did you know nominations/Isabelle Druet

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:14, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

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Isabelle Druet[edit]

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  • Reviewed: Stanley Gelbier
  • Comment: a bit of a rush job, trimming to only sourced, and I didn't get to the recordings.

Created by LouisAlain (talk) and Gerda Arendt (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 15:54, 2 March 2018 (UTC).

I'm nor sure what you mean about "I didn't get to the recordings." Did you refer to the discography of the artists (like those provided by Discogs, AllMusic and their ilk or other links to YouTube or Dailymotion, which I thought should be used with parcimony?LouisAlain (talk) 22:24, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
I was rushing to rehearsal. For DYK, inline citations are needed, - a match/connection of what disdcogs says and the list, for example. Will do, but not now. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:19, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
  • New, in time, long enough, sourced, inline hook citations check out, no apparent copyvios, QPQ done. Gerda Arendt, the hook feels like a bunch of facts slapped together, could you condense it a bit or suggest others? Omitting the reference to Concepción might help, or combining it with the last part (recording of L'heure espagnole), as they appear to be related. --Usernameunique (talk) 21:46, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
I thought we should explain the lesser known work, but here you go:
ALT1: ... that the French mezzo-soprano Isabelle Druet performed as Carmen in Nancy and Düsseldorf, and appeared as Concepción on stage in Lyon, and on a recording? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:51, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
Gerda Arendt, I was thinking of something along the lines of:
ALT2: that the French mezzo-soprano Isabelle Druet performed as Carmen in Nancy and Düsseldorf, and was recorded in Ravel's L'heure espagnole on stage in Lyon? --Usernameunique (talk) 22:05, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
Nice try. For some reason, we seem to say "she recorded", never "she was recorded". In your wording, that could be some minor role, everybody knows "important female character" for Carmen ;)
ALT3: ... that the French mezzo-soprano Isabelle Druet performed as Carmen in Nancy and Düsseldorf, and as Puccini's Ciesca at the Paris Opera? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:56, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
Rather than a list of roles and performances, how about something unusual, such as the fact that she co-founded a theatre company in 2000 when she was in her early 20s (since she was born in September 1979, she was either 20 or 21 at the time, and it's still in business today) and then went on to become a successful Carmen? (The co-founding—not founding—of "La Carotte" would need to be sourced, but that's easily done, though the description of their genres should also be verifiable.) Perhaps something like:
  • ALT4: ... that Isabelle Druet co-founded a French theatre company soon after turning 20, and later performed many mezzo-soprano opera roles, including Carmen in Nancy and Düsseldorf?
I've heard Druet in concert with Le Poème Harmonique—she's quite good—and I'm very surprised to see no mention of her work with them in the article, even though they account for 40% of her listed discography. Indeed, the article is clearly unbalanced since it makes no mention of her career outside of opera, and as over half her discography is non-opera, this is a significant part of her singing career. The article is also awfully close in tone to an artist's concert bio. Can it be made more encyclopedic, perhaps? BlueMoonset (talk) 17:08, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
It could, but by whom. It was translated from French, - I thought it was interesting enough for DYK, but reduced things I couldn't find sources for. - I have other to-do, especially now that March is over. How about you? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:38, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
Gerda Arendt, it's your nomination. I'm afraid I don't have the time myself. You can work on this one, or you can work on others. It's your choice, naturally, but this one needs more if it's to qualify for DYK. BlueMoonset (talk) 23:46, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
Repeating: it's my nomination. I noticed a great woman, about whom I knew nothing, and trimmed the article to match requirements. Her concerts and recordings are in hidden text, but lack citations. - The article is higher standard than some others of mine that "make it". You, however, heard her, so I dared to ask if your urge to improve might be higher than mine. I have a GA on hold, that I don't get to (soon( enough (see my talk), and it's a topic dear to my heart. There's real life also. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:15, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
Yes, why not, I just think that DYK rules don't require completeness. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:25, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the ping, Narutolovehinata5. To my view, the article as it currently stands falls short of WP:DYKSG#D7, in particular the section that reads: Articles that fail to deal adequately with the topic are also likely to be rejected. This article doesn't currently deal adequately with Druet's artistic career, though with a bit more work it could do so. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:44, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
Sigh. If you know that so much better, could you please do this little bit more work? If not I will "in den sauren Apfel beißen" (don't know the phrase in English), meaning: very reluctantly do it, because it's a woman. I just started to make Péter Eötvös a bit more encyclopic, and there's also much room for improvement. - I received bad news in RL. Sigh. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:42, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
I added some, and GRuban added an image. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:43, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
"Bite the bullet" may be what you want. Which tells you something about what different cultures think about biting, I think... :-) --GRuban (talk) 22:02, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Right now the article has some issues; the body itself has a number of unsourced statements. Since she's a performer, I don't really think that hook is that hook-worthy. I actually find her holding a master's degree more interesting; unfortunately it's one of the unsourced statements. Some other statements in there Awards and Works sections also lack citations. Considering how long this nomination has taken; a prompt response is requested. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 01:58, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
This is DYK, not FA. Not every fact needs a source, but one ref per paragraph is recommended. Would you say about a sports person that they hold a degree, or not rather try to say a bit about their sport? - If this was about a man, I'd have dropped it long ago, but now it's about a great woman who deserves more attention. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:59, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
It's not a FA but it is a BLP. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:09, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
It is a BLP, thank you letting me no know (please excuse me being in the mood for sarcasm). "All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be supported by an inline citation to a reliable, published source." All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged. I added a source and more info, - don't read French, so the whole thing is extra hard for me. Please remove contentious facts, and mark those where you think a citation is required. No more time right now, sorry. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:38, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
Is this any good for the Zonta prize? Don't understand the different year? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:37, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
Nomad --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:46, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
review --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:47, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
another recording - off for rehearsal --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:51, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
after rehearsal: I gave almost all recordings a ref (can't help thinking that I could also have written two articles instead, - a recording is a recording, no?), and here's one more to exploit by someone reading French. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:38, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:33, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Here's a quick translation Gerda. LouisAlain (talk) 09:30, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

I came here to see if I could sort through the issues on this nomination and move it along. I have added quite a bit to the article and hope that I have satisfied the BLP issues of Narutolovehinata5 and lack of more comprehensive coverage noted by BlueMoonset. I am no expert on music. Nor is French an easy language for me, however, I typically excel at research and believe that there is now sourced data to show her trajectory and that her career is multi-faceted. In line with that, I would like to propose the following, which I have cleared with Gerda.
  • ALT5: ...that French mezzo-soprano Isabelle Druet, a fan of reggae, performed with Les Arts Florissants at Carnegie Hall and has played as Carmen in Nancy and Düsseldorf? Source: "J’étais plutôt attirée par les musiques du monde, le reggae, la musique indienne"[2], "William Christie and Les Arts Florissants at Carnegie Hall...Singers and instrumentalists include sopranos Claire Debono and Ana Quintans, mezzo-soprano Isabelle Druet..."[3], "Zu weiteren wichtigen Partien ihres Faches gehören u.a. Carmen an der Opéra National de Lorraine und der Deutschen Oper am Rhein Düsseldorf"[4] — Preceding unsigned comment added by SusunW (talk • contribs) 20:55, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
I am not trying to be pushy, but I think that no one will be willing to wade through all the above comments and just do a review unless/until there is response from @BlueMoonset and Narutolovehinata5:. I believe that I have satisfied both of your concerns and that the article should now be a standard DYK review. Would it be possible for you both to reply and advise if that is the case? SusunW (talk) 22:08, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
Narutolovehinata5 I did not touch the infobox or the lede, so did not see that there was a DOB in the summary which was not given in the body. Both of these confirm the date.[5], p 8 SusunW (talk) 03:41, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
Noted. The article looks fine right now, but as BlueMoonset still has outstanding issues with the article, I'm deferring the rest of the review to them. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 04:27, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
Good morning. [6] [7] ... - I just believed the French, [8] --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:06, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
Narutolovehinata5, please do not defer action on your review on my account. If you are satisfied with the article, then feel free to pass it. I do not have time to do a review this week, and the nomination has waited long enough. Thank you. BlueMoonset (talk) 12:26, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
  • This review has gone for far too long already, so let's let this move forward. It meets all the requirements: newness, length, sourcing (French and offline sources accepted AGF), hook interest, free from close paraphasing, and with a QPQ provided. This has been stuck for far too long, it's time to approve this. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 04:24, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
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