Template:Did you know nominations/John Ellenby

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by  MPJ-DK  18:35, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

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John Ellenby[edit]

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Created by Simfish (talk) and Joseph2302 (talk). Nominated by Joseph2302 (talk) at 17:25, 2 September 2016 (UTC).

  • No issues found with article, ready for human review.
    • ✓ This article is new and was created on 05:22, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
    • ✓ This article meets the DYK criteria at 1814 characters
    • ✓ All paragraphs in this article have at least one citation
    • ✓ This article has no outstanding maintenance tags
    • ✓ A copyright violation is unlikely according to automated metrics (2.9% confidence; confirm)
      • Note to reviewers: There is low confidence in this automated metric, please manually verify that there is no copyright infringement or close paraphrasing. Note that this number may be inflated due to cited quotes and titles which do not constitute a copyright violation.
  • No overall issues detected

Automatically reviewed by DYKReviewBot. This is not a substitute for a human review. Please report any issues with the bot. --DYKReviewBot (report bugs) 19:25, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

  • Meets criteria. New/long enough, well-sourced, and free of policy issues. Hook is sourced inline and interesting. QPQ also done. SounderBruce 05:51, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

I have pulled this hook as I am concerned about its factual accuracy, not least that the IBM 5100 and Epson HX-20 make the claim of "first laptop" dubious. Please see discussion at WT:DYK. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 16:03, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Joseph2302 notified on their talk page. — Maile (talk) 16:15, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Well, it said "one of the first", not "the first", which would have been incorrect of course. The Epson HX-20 was released in 1982, the same year as this one, and is "generally regarded as the first laptop computer". The Grid Compass was released in April 1982, so can't be much later than the Epson (at most three months, at best earlier than the Epson). If the Epson is generally regarded as the first, then the Compass is surely "one of the first", no? The IBM 5100 was a portable computer, but not a laptop computer by far. Your pull wasn't bad (better safe than sorry) but the hook seems to be correct after all. Fram (talk) 16:40, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

I think changing it to "one of the first successful laptops" in the original hook would clarify it, but then the hook seems to suggest Ellenby was primarily responsible for creating the Grid Compass himself, which isn't strictly true. So I think going for the clamshell design, which does seem to be pioneering, is a better angle to aim for. All said and done, best to pull and have a bit of chat about it, I thought. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 16:46, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
And what would be the unsuccesful laptops then? As for your second point, the hook suggests that he co-founded the company, and that the company designed the machine. Using "which" instead of "who" might make this clearer. Fram (talk) 16:54, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
Just prototypes developed in labs in the late 70s, including Alan Kay's "Dynabook". The trouble is that the term "laptop" didn't really take off until the mid-80s (this source claims the Gavilan SC was the first laptop to be called a laptop) so it's all a bit woolly ... and hence why going for the briefcase angle is a bit less controversial and also in my view is more "hooky" - exactly what we want at DYK, I think. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 17:11, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
  • I've just been checking this issue out – reading sources like Make It New: A History of Silicon Valley Design. The original hook was reasonable as, in my opinion, the IBM 5100 and Epson HX-20 were portable computers, which is a more general concept than the laptop. Having hauled an original Compaq around, the distinction was apparent back then. Anyway, I was thinking of a very similar hook to ALT1 and agree that this is a good way to go to avoid arguing about exactly what a laptop is. My version would be:
Andrew D. (talk) 16:50, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
I think this was covered by Fram already, but I think ALT0 was technically correct- he did co-found the company, the company did make the computer, and the computer was one of the first portable computers. Nevertheless, I do like ALT2, and it's supported by [1]? Joseph2302 17:42, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
  • Approving ALT1 but not ALT2, as the words "old" and "leather" do not appear in either the article or source. Rest of the review as per Sounder Bruce. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:12, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
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