Template:Did you know nominations/Joice Hasselmann

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 23:07, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
Original nominator is currently blocked, second nominator has not responded to multiple requests for comment, and the article has paraphrasing issues that seem to be insurmountable in the short-to-medium term.

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Joice Hasselmann[edit]

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Created by DavidStarIsrael7 (talk) and Lionelt (talk). Nominated by Lionelt (talk) and Richvianbonett (talk) at 07:42, 20 April 2018 (UTC).

  • The full review is to follow, but considering how unpopular Rousseff was and how most legislators voted for her impeachment and removal, I don't think the hook is really that "hooky" or quirky. I see that she was a journalist before entering politics: perhaps a hook about that might be more appropriate here. In addition, the last paragraph of the Biography section is unreferenced; also the phrase "The journalist has also been regularly invited..." could probably be rephrased as "Hasselmann has also been regularly invited..." Finally, some phrases in the article are in the present tense when they should be in the past tense. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:28, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
  • All criticisms are constructive. I believe that together we can make the article better and better. Let's sharpen it! --DavidStarIsrael7 (talk) 03:05, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
  • Um, the creator ran into a little problem with his account. Well to tell the truth, looks like he got indeffed. You know, it happens to the best of us! Anyway I'm kinda waiting to see if his 3rd unblock request is the charm ;-) – Lionel(talk) 06:28, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Narutolovehinata5, Lionelt, given that DavidStarIsrael7 has had his talk page access withdrawn as part of the indeffing, which was based on checkuser evidence of socking, the odds of a third unblock request (this one offline) bearing any fruit at all are effectively nil. If this is to proceed, Lionel needs to propose that ALT1 soon (I agree that the original hook is not interesting, as is typical of hooks of the form "Did you know that X did Y?"); since he's the nominator, it's his responsibility anyway. BlueMoonset (talk) 18:39, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
  • I've gone over the article and there is nothing remotely interesting about her. – Lionel(talk) 10:52, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
  • As there is nothing remotely interesting about Hasselmann in the article to make an interesting hook, the nomination doesn't have a chance of meeting the hook criteria. Marking for closure. (If someone does come up with an interesting hook before this closes, then the review can certainly resume.) BlueMoonset (talk) 05:45, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
  • @BlueMoonset and Lionelt: I've gone through the article, and I did find some information that could be hook worthy. For example, her having been a speaker at an event where Brazil asked for forgiveness for "the aggression that the Brazilian government made against Israel at Unesco". Specifically, I think this phrase ("Hasselmann, who delivered a Brazilian flag in a symbolic act, receiving in return a flag of Israel from the hands of the authorities") could form the basis of an interesting hook. In addition, I think another hook proposal could be that she considered taking up medicine (specifically neurology) before taking up journalism. So we've got two hook proposals here: one about the Brazil-Israel flag thing, and the other about her initially wanting to be a doctor. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 23:22, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
  • I have newfound inspiration thanks to Narutolovehinata5. I'm back on track for my DYK25 Medal!!! – Lionel(talk) 05:45, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
  • ALT1: ... that Joice Hasselmann, as part of a delegation sent to Israel in 2017, apologized for the Brazilian government's opposition to the Jewish state? Source: [2]
  • Lionelt, just a reminder that you will need to submit a QPQ. I changed the period at the end of ALT1 to a question mark per DYK guidelines. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:41, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
  • @BlueMoonset: Since ALT1 involves a topic I'm personally uncomfortable editing with (Israel), I'm requesting a new review here. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:21, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Hi, I came by to review this and found it impossible to read. As I went along, I added "clarification needed" tags wherever I didn't understand something. I suggest you submit this to WP:GOCE for clean-up. I also added "citation needed" and other tags. Please remember that this is the English Wikipedia and that most readers have no idea of what the initials of TV networks or Brazilian political parties stand for, nor what the Lava Jato trial is. The ALT1 hook is actually pretty good and I will be happy to complete this nomination when the English grammar is taken care of. Yoninah (talk) 00:00, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Yoninah, it looks like another editor came along some days later and addressed most of the tags (but not all) that you placed. No request has been made at the Guild of Copy Editors, though, and I have no idea whether the prose concerns you have has ben addressed. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:20, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
  • @BlueMoonset: yes, Richvianbonett did a great job cleaning this up. There are still a few "clarification needed" tags and one calling for "further explanation needed". Perhaps the nominator could address these. Yoninah (talk) 18:00, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
@BlueMoonset and Yoninah: Hi. Thank you for mentioning me in this talk. Indeed, the wording of the article was defective, probably translated directly from Portuguese into English by the other editor, without any revision or weighting of particularities. I tried to correct it as much as possible. The work is still incomplete, but I promise I will complete it in the next few days.--Richvianbonett (talk) 22:05, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
@BlueMoonset and Yoninah: I've made some edits in that article since then. I tried to correct the highlighted problems. For now, these were casual edits, but I can continue to review and correct the article as the opportunity arise. Thank you!--Richvianbonett (talk) 03:06, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
  • I also did more editing on the article. It reads well now. But in checking the ALT1 hook fact against the Spanish-language source and Google Translate, I see the translation of this passage is pretty much lifted from Google Translate. Even though the original language is Spanish, I would consider this word-by-word close paraphrasing into English:
  • Google Translate: "Brazil is for Israel, no one can tear the Bible," said Hasselmann, who delivered a Brazilian flag in a symbolic act, receiving in return a flag of Israel from the hands of the authorities. On the same occasion, she delivered a document signed by the Brazil-Israel International Community, showing the support of the Brazilian people and recognizing the sovereignty of the Israelis over their "eternal capital", Jerusalem.
  • Article: In Jerusalem she said that "Brazil is for Israel, no one can tear the Bible" ("O Brasil é por Israel, ninguém pode rasgar a Bíblia") and delivered a Brazilian flag in a symbolic act, receiving in return a flag of Israel from the authorities. On the same occasion, Hasselmann delivered a document signed by the International Community Brazil & Israel, showing the support of the Brazilian people and recognizing the sovereignty of the Israelis over Jerusalem, referring to the city as their "eternal capital".
  • I don't have time to check every other source, but I suspect we're going to find the same problem elsewhere. @Lionelt: if you or the page creator are not willing to fix this, it will have to be a fail. Yoninah (talk) 19:36, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
I agree. I can help in this check, but I think it would be gradually, because this may take some time.Richvianbonett (talk) 05:47, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
@BlueMoonset: this nomination is almost 2 months old. The page creator has been indefinitely blocked and the nominator seems to have dropped out of the discussion. It will take an indefinite amount of time for someone else to reread every source. I do not think it's up to other editors to pick up the pieces. Can we fail this now? Yoninah (talk) 14:19, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Yoninah, I think the discovery of close paraphrasing is the straw that broke the camel's back. Please feel free to close this nom. Lionelt commented back in May on the creator's page that they don't know Portuguese so there wasn't anything they could really do to further the nomination, and they have never edited the article, so they have effectively abandoned their own nomination. While Richvianbonett has done excellent work here, I don't think we can wait for gradual changes. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:02, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
  • OK, thanks. Closing as unsuccessful. Yoninah (talk) 20:30, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
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