Template:Did you know nominations/Joseph LaBarge

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:28, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Joseph LaBarge

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Captain J. LaBarge

~~... that in his youth, Captain Joseph LaBarge (pictured) was part of an escort of boys for the visiting Lafayette, and shook hands with him?~~ Source: Chitteden, 1903, vol. 1, p.15

Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Blessing in disguise (idiom)
Comment: Text and citation supporting the hook is found in the 'Early life' section

Created by Gwillhickers (talk). Self-nominated at 18:50, 14 August 2019 (UTC).

New enough, long enough, neutrally written, well referenced, no close paraphrasing seen. Hook is verified and cited inline; I flipped around some words. I'm a little surprised that you didn't speak about his steamboating career in the hook, which sounds pretty colorful. The image is also very good and freely licensed. Other images in the article are also freely licensed. The QPQ, however, has already been used for Template:Did you know nominations/Thomas M. Owen. Yoninah (talk) 00:06, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I had similar after thoughts about not referring to LaBarge's (more than) noted career as a steamboat captain in the hook. I suppose my fondness of Lafayette is responsible for that. It's getting a bit late here in California, so I'll look for another 'Alt' in the morning, after I've had my coffee, of course. Also, I'll get the QPQ squared away in the process. Thanks for reviewing this rather lengthy article. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 05:13, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

@Yoninah: – Here's a new ALT. Also, I have the correct QPQ listed now. Text and source supporting the hook can be found in the Civil War era section, 3rd paragraph.
ALT1 : ~~... that in 1863 Joseph LaBarge (pictured), aboard his riverboat, the Emilie, set a speed and distance record on the Missouri River, covering 2,300 miles in 32 days, going upstream?~~ Source : State Historical Society of Missouri, Journal, p.460 -- Gwillhickers (talk) 17:48, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. QPQ done. I recommend reducing the number of commas in the alt, as follows:
ALT1a: ~~... that in 1863, Captain Joseph LaBarge (pictured) set a speed and distance record aboard his steamboat on the Missouri River, covering 2,300 mi (3,700 km) in 32 days, going upstream?~~
I can verify from the source the distance and time, but I don't see anything about a "speed and distance record". The source just says it was a record feat for that era; the hook makes it sound like an official record. Yoninah (talk) 23:27, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

The speed and distance is defined with the statement, "The Emilie completed its trip upriver which totaled 2,300 miles in thirty-two days ... 71 miles per day... " The hook, nor the article, doesn't say anything about an "official record". The source, however, does say,"In fact, it (the trip up river) was so remarkable that Pierre Chouteau, Jr. sent his carriage to St. Louis to bring LaBarge to him to discuss the record trip." (emphasis added) Records of this sort were kept in those days, in log books, shipping company's records, and elsewhere, and in that context, were official. There's nothing really wrong if something 'official' is implied here, but again, the hook nor the article stresses that idea. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 23:51, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Well, that's not going to fly with the people at WP:ERRORS. Yoninah (talk) 00:06, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
Records were kept. LaBarge set a record. Where is the error? -- Gwillhickers (talk) 00:12, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Will referring to records as "exceeded existing records" help?
ALT2 : ... that in 1863, Captain Joseph LaBarge (pictured) exceeded existing records for speed and distance aboard his steamboat on the Missouri River, covering 2,300 mi (3,700 km) in 32 days, going upstream?

@Yoninah: — Below are more sources covering other record setting events involving LaBarge. This should establish the idea that speed and distance records were closely observed and recorded, and that LaBarge is widely noted for establishing several of them.

- Source: LaBarge Genealogy, permission: The State Historical Society of Missouri: LaBarge established the speed record for steamboats on the Missouri River in 1850 when he piloted the St. Ange from St. Louis to the Yellowstone River in twenty-eight days. He achieved another record the next year when he navigated the same steamboat to the Poplar River, the farthest point reached by that mode of travel at that time.
• After the record-breaking trip, LaBarge sold the St. Ange and, at the age of thirty-six, retired from the river ...

Here is coverage about a letter asking the Editor of the Missouri Republican: to cover LaBarge's record breaking trip: - Sir: Will you please insert in your paper the following lines, as a tribute of our appreciation of the superior management of the Steamer Emilie in all her departments on her recent trip from St. Louis to Fort Benton, 3,200 miles, accomplished in the short space of thirty-four days -- the quickest on record;

- In the Spring of 1862, Joseph La Barge brought his sidewheeler Emilie on a thirty-five day trip from St. Louis to Fort Benton. The record of that voyage (now in the archives of the Missouri Historical Society) makes for vivid reading... Havihurst, p.10

Chittenden, 1903, Vol II, p. 288: he made the whole trip, 2300 miles, in a little less than thirty-two days, and would have finished it sooner but for the fact that he had to help the Skreveport the last hundred miles of the distance. The boats arrived at Fort Benton at noon June 17...

More coverage about speed and distance records being set, and documented.

I'm hoping this will satisfy any reservations you have about mentioning speed/distance records in the hook. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 22:37, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Below are two sources we can use in the hook (i.e.original source used in ALT1, and Chittenden, 1903):

Chittenden, 1903, Vol II, p. 288
State Historical Society of Missouri, Journal, p.460 -- Gwillhickers (talk) 18:21, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

Thank you, Gwillhickers, ALT2 will do just fine. I tweaked the article lead and main text to add the "exceeding existing records" part. ALT2 hook ref verified and cited inline. Rest of review above. ALT2 good to go. Yoninah (talk) 18:49, 19 September 2019 (UTC)