Template:Did you know nominations/MTA Arts & Design
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 09:12, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
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MTA Arts & Design
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... that the MTA Arts & Design–commissioned "Sky Reflector-Net" is the first skylight built in any underground New York City Subway station since the skylighted City Hall station closed in 1945?... that upon completion, the MTA Arts & Design–commissioned "Sky Reflector-Net" reflected natural sunlight onto an underground New York City subway platform for the first time in nearly 70 years?... that in 2014, the MTA Arts & Design commissioned the "Sky Reflector-Net", which when completed shined the first natural sunlight an underground New York City subway platform had seen in nearly 70 years?... that in 2014, the MTA Arts & Design commissioned the "Sky Reflector-Net", which upon completion was the first time natural sunlight made contact with an underground New York City subway platform in nearly 70 years?
- Comment: To clarify, the original City Hall station that included "skylights" closed in 1945. The Sky Reflector-Net in the Fulton Building opened in late 2014. There may be a better way to word the hook, any suggestions are welcomed. This is my second DYK nomination ever. I plan to do more and when I get a bit more confident I will give back and review other nominations :)
Created by MusikAnimal (talk). Self nominated at 23:05, 16 February 2015 (UTC).
- I've added an alternate wording. To provide further clarification, the word "underground" is not redundant as there are above-ground New York City subway platforms. I think this is a really interesting fact but am having trouble conveying it nicely. I want to make it clear we're saying that this was the first time sunlight hit a subway platform in the entire subway system, not just the IRT Lexington Ave platform that the sun is actually shining on. Thanks in advance for any help! — MusikAnimal talk 00:35, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
- ALT3
... that completion of the MTA Arts & Design–commissioned "Sky Reflector-Net" marked the first time natural sunlight has shone on any underground New York City subway platform since City Hall station closed in 1945?-- EEng (talk) 05:07, 22 February 2015 (UTC)- @EEng: Have I missed the mark? Is it too late to promote this now? — MusikAnimal talk 18:08, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
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- I have another proposed hook, because technically "the first time natural sunlight has shone on any underground New York City subway platform" is wrong, because there are ventilation shafts in some of the shallower subway stations, and the sun definitely shines through these ventilation shafts (take a ride on one of the numbered lines in Midtown Manhattan and you will see what I am talking about). I will also note that the "Sky Reflector-Net" is not built over any subway platform, but rather in the Fulton Center main building, over a bunch of retail spaces. I think what you mean is intentional skylights. I've reworded it here:
ALT4 ... that the MTA Arts & Design–commissioned "Sky Reflector-Net" is the first skylight built in any underground New York City Subway station since the skylighted City Hall station closed in 1945?
- Epic Genius (talk) 22:05, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- You are right about the ventilation shafts, I didn't think about that, despite riding the subway daily... so I guess we need to drop some of these other hooks and reword a few articles based on the apparent inaccuracy of this source. After reading the article I knew from my own knowledge that the City Hall station had natural sunlight coming in, so I knew that much was wrong. Wired is generally considered reliable, but clearly off here. I find that a bit innerving considering the factual error could have made it's way to the main page by now.Anyway, you could shift some words around, but using the term "skylight" would evidently be only truly accurate way to put it, albeit also much less-exciting in a factual sense. I'll try to find something better, but for now I'm scratching the other candidates and moving it as the primary one. Thanks Epicgenius for catching this! — MusikAnimal talk 22:57, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- No problem. The last part of this new hook, the part saying "the skylighted City Hall station" could be reworded. Epic Genius (talk) 23:01, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- You are right about the ventilation shafts, I didn't think about that, despite riding the subway daily... so I guess we need to drop some of these other hooks and reword a few articles based on the apparent inaccuracy of this source. After reading the article I knew from my own knowledge that the City Hall station had natural sunlight coming in, so I knew that much was wrong. Wired is generally considered reliable, but clearly off here. I find that a bit innerving considering the factual error could have made it's way to the main page by now.Anyway, you could shift some words around, but using the term "skylight" would evidently be only truly accurate way to put it, albeit also much less-exciting in a factual sense. I'll try to find something better, but for now I'm scratching the other candidates and moving it as the primary one. Thanks Epicgenius for catching this! — MusikAnimal talk 22:57, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- I have another proposed hook, because technically "the first time natural sunlight has shone on any underground New York City subway platform" is wrong, because there are ventilation shafts in some of the shallower subway stations, and the sun definitely shines through these ventilation shafts (take a ride on one of the numbered lines in Midtown Manhattan and you will see what I am talking about). I will also note that the "Sky Reflector-Net" is not built over any subway platform, but rather in the Fulton Center main building, over a bunch of retail spaces. I think what you mean is intentional skylights. I've reworded it here:
Full review needed. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:49, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
- Last rounds for @Epicgenius, MusikAnimal, and EEng: or it's closing time. PanydThe muffin is not subtle 18:03, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
- If E-genius will do any rewording needed to ALT4 first, I'm asking Martinevans123 to do something useful for once and do a review.(I can't because I'm partly responsible for the hook.) EEng (talk) 18:09, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
- Alt4 is now the primary hook, the other alternatives striked. What else do we need? The information is easily verifiable, and well-sourced in the article. I'm not that familiar with how DYK's are reviewed. BlueMoonset, Panyd, you're both involved with the hook, perhaps you could do the honours? Thanks! — MusikAnimal talk 20:59, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
- Yeah, I'd like to alter ALT4:
- ALT5
... that the "Sky Reflector-Net", an artwork commissioned by the MTA Arts & Design, is the first skylight in any operating underground New York City Subway station since City Hall station closed in 1945?
- ALT5
- Epic Genius (talk) 01:30, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
- Yeah, I'd like to alter ALT4:
- Alt4 is now the primary hook, the other alternatives striked. What else do we need? The information is easily verifiable, and well-sourced in the article. I'm not that familiar with how DYK's are reviewed. BlueMoonset, Panyd, you're both involved with the hook, perhaps you could do the honours? Thanks! — MusikAnimal talk 20:59, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
- I can't see ALT5 being referenced but I might be stupid. PanydThe muffin is not subtle 14:11, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
- @Panyd: Last sentence of the article. The "since closing of the City Hall" part is inferred. You won't see mention of it in the source, but that's because the source failed to realize that the original City Hall station had skylights. That station closed in 1945, and I've just added another reference supporting that. — MusikAnimal talk 14:45, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry that this is silly. The new source says And thanks to some brilliant design work, the $1.4 billion project also connected parts of the deep, dark system to natural daylight for the first time. - which, to be honest, would be a cooler 'fact' in the hook. And given the whole not truth ethos, and that it's only implied in its former state, it seems like this would work nicely instead. Want to tweak it? PanydThe muffin is not subtle 15:16, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
- @Panyd: I also apologize for any confusion. The new source was actually this one, which only shows when the original City Hall station closed. The Wired source you are referring to was incorrect in saying "... daylight for the first time", as the City Hall station had skylights. This is unusual for Wired, as it's genrally considered reliable. Anyway, a third source can verify that the original City Hall station indeed had natural light hitting the floor of the station. So, between the three sources, we can definitively support ALT5 as fact. Hopefully that clears things up. — MusikAnimal talk 15:29, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry that this is silly. The new source says And thanks to some brilliant design work, the $1.4 billion project also connected parts of the deep, dark system to natural daylight for the first time. - which, to be honest, would be a cooler 'fact' in the hook. And given the whole not truth ethos, and that it's only implied in its former state, it seems like this would work nicely instead. Want to tweak it? PanydThe muffin is not subtle 15:16, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
- I can't see ALT5 being referenced but I might be stupid. PanydThe muffin is not subtle 14:11, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
- I'm convinced but I'm going to leave the final say-so on this to BlueMoonset given their superiority in these matters. If they're cool with it then it gets a big-fat AGF tick from me. PanydThe muffin is not subtle 15:43, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
- I think, basically, unless we have a reliable source (so, no puppies and flowers) which states the fact explicitly, we should not use it as a hook fact. Something else, sure, if it's reliably sourced, but not the hook fact. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:26, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, Crisco; I've struck ALT5 per your comment. I've also just made a few edits based on the Wired source's description of the artwork: hundreds of aluminum mirrors and daylight that travels four stories below ground could make a decent hook, I think. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:41, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
- 53 feet? The sunlight travels 93 million miles! I think the focus should be on the mirrors and the date that it opened. Epic Genius (talk) 12:37, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
- The "puppies and flowers" source I just grabbed from the City Hall article. It merely supports that the City Hall station had skylights, one can simply look at a picture to verify that. Anyway I've replaced it with a better source. I still think between the three sources ALT5 is suitable and verifiable, and the more interesting fact, but leaving this DYK nomination at the mercy of you all. — MusikAnimal talk 16:02, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
- Two months have gone by and the review is now longer than the article (another one of those extended hook discussions - all of which have been struck). So square one...new enough (same day) and long enough (1.7k). Sourced, neutral with no apparent copyvio. QPQ not needed since nom has one DYK credit. There's a CC-BY-SA-4.0 image of the "Sky Reflector-Net" over at Fulton Center, which can be used in the hook if added to this article. Light travelling that sort of distance isn't impressive but the design itself is, so how about:
- ALT6 ... that the MTA Arts & Design commissioned "Sky Reflector-Net" uses a 53 foot (16 m) skylight and hundreds of aluminium mirrors to provide light to the Fulton Center transit hub? Fuebaey (talk) 14:57, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
- Sounds like an interesting hook. MusikAnimal, what do you think? Epic Genius (talk) 19:12, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
- Works for me! — MusikAnimal talk 19:15, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
- Sounds like an interesting hook. MusikAnimal, what do you think? Epic Genius (talk) 19:12, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
- ALT6 ... that the MTA Arts & Design commissioned "Sky Reflector-Net" uses a 53 foot (16 m) skylight and hundreds of aluminium mirrors to provide light to the Fulton Center transit hub? Fuebaey (talk) 14:57, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
Caution. Do not make a comment unless you really want to hold this up... again. I can confirm that the last alt (number 6) is correct and cited. All other aspects are discussed above. Can we let this one go to the main page? Victuallers (talk) 18:53, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
