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Template:Did you know nominations/Main Title (The West Wing)

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Rlink2 (talk) 21:21, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

Main Title (The West Wing)

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Created by Theleekycauldron (talk). Self-nominated at 01:07, 5 April 2022 (UTC).

Interesting music, on fine sources, no copyvio obvious. - The hook would leave me absolutely cold, not knowing what The West Wing is, but that's fine. (Just that I - when introducing something - am often asked to supply context.) There's a link to find out, and that's enough for me. Now ignorant me has a few questions for the article, some probably to your amusement, but I'll first save this, - I had reviews which - while I typed a lot - were reviewed by someone else. For more clarity, I also offer
ALT0a: ... that the "Main Title" of The West Wing was only intended for use in one scene? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:05, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
Now
  • "Main Title (The West Wing)" - is that the correct title? I'd assume: "Main Title" (The West Wing), if just a disambiguation from other Main Title. Or are the brackets part of the name?
  • Your hook calls it a song, but the lead doesn't mention anything vocal.
  • What is a "full orchestra" vs. an orchestra?
  • In the first sentence, the style wanted is described by several names that tell me nothing, - could that also be described as a mix of styles, with links?
  • wl blue-jeans music and Ameicana here instead of later?
  • "presidency" comes in the second para, - could a bit of super-summary perhaps be given to begin with? It might make more accessible why a heroic feel is wanted, for example.
  • "he worked not to overuse the theme" - tricky construction for me, but I may be the only one.
  • Crawley doesn't need a first name the second time mentioned.
  • "reflects the values of an idealized American culture" seems fine lead material, for an introduction.
  • "rising and falling without much end" - is that a quote? If not, what does "without much end" mean?
  • I feel the final sentence is too rich and could be split in two or three.
always learning - I left a question on your talk, and would just like yes or no. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:22, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
@Gerda Arendt: thanks for the speedy review! I've added an ALT0b up above (don't move it)—the reason i don't usually link The West Wing is that I'd rather users read the article for context. While "theme song" is established use for any title sequence music, vocals or no, I've cut that out for now. Other copyedits made from here, too :) theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 18:09, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
And yes, the full name of the song is "Main Title (The West Wing)". theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 18:09, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
Thank you. Now that's a surprise for someone German: that a song can be something without singing ;) - Perhaps change the article Song, mentioning that? ("A song is a musical composition intended to be performed by the human voice.") - I had no need to approve your new ALT0b, because by your positioning, it became approved. No idea why you'd do that, but never mind. - If this complex thing is the title, please have that in the article title also. Any Bach cantata has the same problem, - I don't have it memorized, trusting that you'll find it (it's under External links). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:31, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
Thank you for the major copy-edit! Next suggestions: collapse that monster of a navbox, and use {{infobox musical composition}} if it's not a song. (I even use that for songs, see Traum durch die Dämmerung.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:50, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
@Gerda Arendt: The article's title is Main Title (The West Wing)? I italicized The West Wing in the title, though. Leaving the navbox as is for now, but I did change the infobox template (I should really add an audio sample). Also, the reason I keep my suggested hooks at the top is that the promoter has to search through all the wikitext to find the hook, which isn't easy when the ALT header isn't bolded. So, keep it close up at the top where it's easy for the promoter to see it. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 21:27, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
If the title is Main Title (The West Wing), why would one italicize? If that is the title it would be (in Classical music MoS) either "Main Title (The West Wing)" (for a small work such as a song) or Main Title (The West Wing) for a large work. If, however, Main Title was the title, and (The West Wing) the disambiguation, I'd understand different italics for the two parts, in which case we'd need "displaytitle" to have these same differences also in the article title.
I understand that you want hooks ready for a prep builder, but can we - next round - first discuss it here, and move up only when approved? Because as it was, a fast prep builder could have grabbed your new ALT before I could even see it, no? When I approve, I usually strike all others, so finding should be not too hard, with the hooks marked in bold. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:46, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
The West Wing is the name of the show, I assumed it'd be italicized anyway. And sure, we can move it up when approved (although it should be noted that striking a hook, again, doesn't really work for wikitext searching). theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 21:55, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
I'll try again to understand after sleep ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:58, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
Go, recharge, take care of yourself :) theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 21:59, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
Refreshed, a new look. I suggest to say the following in the article:
"Main Title (The West Wing)" is the official title for the theme music of The West Wing, ... (if that a small work, as a song would be, and the shortness of the piece suggests)
Main Title (The West Wing) is the official title for the theme music of The West Wing, ... (if a large work).
I see no reason to have The West Wing italic unless meaning the series, if at all, - aren't series not-italic? No source has italic for some part of that title. Once introduced, the complex official thingy doesn't have to be repeated ever in the article ;) Make redirects, please. - The hook can stay as it is. Would you agree? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:28, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
@Gerda Arendt: Well, to answer, series are definitely italicized most of the time—see Ambush (ER), Celestial Navigation (The West Wing), and Patience (The X-Files). However, since this is a part of the actual title and song titles usually aren't italicized at all, i'm perfectly fine deferring as well. Just thought that'd be neat information. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 09:42, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
You'll be right about tv series about which I know practically nothing, - I guess I confuse that with book series which came up with Enid Blyton (FAC), years ago, - also things may have changed, + my memory is not reliable. So: series italic, fine, but please within the official title not italic (which keeps the article title simple). I am not sure I understand your last sentence. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:47, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
Changed :) i just meant by the last sentence that I wasn't trying to sway you or exhaust you into agreeing, i was just pointing it out because i like neat facts like that and you brought it up. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 09:50, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
Did you ever listen to the composition, by the way? It's a little over the top when you listen to it (sigh) over 500 times, so I like this "West Wing Suite" mentioned in the article. The latter's my favourite song to play on piano. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 09:54, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
I simply could get what "it" was in "Just thought that'd be neat information." Probably doesn't matter even ;) - It just sounded to me as if there was some neat info that we lost on the way. - No, no time yet to listen, but will, promised ;) - hungry now, I interrupted an article halfway ... --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:33, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
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