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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by Harrias talk 07:38, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

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Michael Potts (diplomat)

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Created by Stalwart111 (talk). Self nominated at 06:31, 7 February 2015 (UTC).

  • This article was created and nominated on the same day. Prose is longer than than 1500 characters (2401). Hook is interesting, and has one incline citation. Neutrality is maintained.  — ₳aron 17:25, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Pulled from prep: the hook is not only longer than the DYK maximum, but I find it confusingly written and less effective without the name of the country. Please come up with something more concise. When a new ALT hook has been proposed and this is reviewed again, the reviewer should check for close paraphrasing, since the original review doesn't mention it. BlueMoonset (talk) 22:22, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
BlueMoonset, which country name is missing?
How about - ALT1 ... that Michael Potts was Australian High Commissioner to PNG during the "shoe episode" and that protesters passed a petition through the High Commission's front gates demanding an apology Australia? - St★lwart111 22:44, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
  • "Papua New Guinea" is missing; if you want to grab people, a usage like "PNG", even if linked, is going to lessen the effect. Also, the new hook has a grammatical problem, and adding the needed word after "apology" is going to make the hook either borderline or overlong. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:17, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
  • As will extending "PNG" from acronym to proper title. I've edited the hook a couple of times and can't seem to get it right. What would you suggest? St★lwart111 02:43, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Suggesting the following, which I think still covers the salient details and comes in at 193 characters:
Need a new reviewer to check this hook, and also do a check for close paraphrasing, which was apparently omitted during the original review. —BlueMoonset (talk) 23:49, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

comes in at 193 characters:

Alt3 - be brief? Victuallers (talk) 16:14, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Still needs check of ALT hooks, and also a check for close paraphrasing, which was apparently omitted during the original review. (Note: ALT3 is 142 characters.) BlueMoonset (talk) 16:18, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
  • New enough, long enough, adequately referenced. No close paraphrasing seen. Page creator has more than 5 DYKs, so a QPQ is needed. However, the article seems more like a series of notes about his diplomatic career, rather than a cohesive biography. There is nothing about his birth, early life, education, or family. In fact, the very first paragraph after the lead dives into some controversy about him, although I don't understand it the way it's written. A section called "Diplomatic Career" should outline his career, not offer three soundbites. His postings to Vietnam, Brunei, Darussalam, Laos, Zambia, Spain, and Austria, mentioned in footnote 10, are inexplicably grouped under "With experience throughout the region". The writer is also making assumptions rather than paraphrasing the sources, as in a sentence cited to footnote 8: how do you know Potts was given responsibility for taking delivery – why couldn't it have been the Brigidier General who was at the ceremony? Meanwhile, ALT3 is incorrect because the protesters demanded an apology from the Prime Minister, not Potts. Yoninah (talk) 21:22, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
Happy to address each of those. We simply don't have any details about his birth, education, etc., except what you might be able to find on Facebook or the like. He's not notable for his family life anyway, so I'm not sure that would be relevant. Where it is available, sure we can include it, but it certainly isn't included in his professional biographies. The "diplomatic career" section is about his career as a diplomat, prior to his appointment as an ambassador. The "controversy" in question wasn't about him, per se, but about something he had written. The controversy was that it was leaked but there is no suggestion he leaked it. We could easily change that section to "Early career" or something similar. The section prior summarises his experience in the region - East Timor, PNG, NZ - which then saw him appointed to his first ambassadorial post. Zambia, Spain and Austria are not "in that region" and that's not at all what is suggested. Australia took delivery of those vehicles and he was their representative at that ceremony, therefore he took delivery on their behalf. Happy to change the wording but there are no assumptions there. I wasn't aware I'd reached 5. I'm more than happy to review something else but I've created more than 200 articles and only now reached 5 DYKs, and most of those I was walked through very gently - I'm not particularly familiar with the DYK process. St★lwart111 01:59, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
  • More than two weeks have elapsed since the last review but no progress has been made with this nomination. @Stalwart111: If you're still working on this, a QPQ is required and a new hook needs to be proposed. Fuebaey (talk) 14:05, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
Hi Fuebaey. I explained the issue with regard to QPQ but I'm happy to do that. Is there somewhere with a walk-through so I don't completely ruin someone else's work? I thought ALT2 was okay and I provided responses to the last review but nothing has happened since. St★lwart111 00:22, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
Apologies, I must have missed ALT2 while skimming through. There's a reviewing guide available that may help, and a (less confusing) reviewing checklist to refer to. Just pick an unreviewed nomination from this list and dig in. Feel free to ping me if you need more help. Fuebaey (talk) 01:13, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Superseding most recent icon so this nomination isn't accidentally closed prematurely. This is not a review of any kind (and can't be, since I proposed ALT2). BlueMoonset (talk) 23:34, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Reading the discussion above only the objection of User:Yoninah is holding back the nomination. User:Stalwart111 had responded to the objection but Yoninah hasn't replied yet. If s/he is satisfied with the explanation, and once Stalwart111's QPQ is done with, this could safely proceed. I'm still peeved though by ALT2; I suppose it could be worded more properly. –HTD 18:24, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Sorry, I was pretty busy last week and am now coming back to this. I edited the article and added more information from the sources to make it more encyclopedic and to present his biography in chronological order. I added a tag to a sentence to ask which year this occurred; I cannot access the source behind a paywall. @Stalwart111: I am happy to "walk you through" a QPQ; please be in touch on my talk page. Regarding ALT2, I would just end the hook at "shoe episode". Yoninah (talk) 19:23, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
For clarity, I have striken ALT2 in favour of fewer links and Yoninah's suggestion below:
ALT4: ... that Michael Potts was the Australian High Commissioner to Papua New Guinea during the "shoe episode"?
However, it has been a month since my last comment and the nominator has yet to provide a QPQ, despite multiple pings. Marking for closure. Fuebaey (talk) 15:38, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
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