Template:Did you know nominations/Norwich School (independent school)
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 15:14, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
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Norwich School (independent school)[edit]
- ... that as a boy at Norwich School (pictured)
famed jurist Edward Coke was taught the value of freedom of speech?
Improved to Good Article status by Duffit5 (talk). Self nominated at 11:59, 2 March 2014 (UTC).
- (alt1)
... that young girls were allowed in Norwich School (pictured), where Horatio Nelson was educated, in 2008?
- (alt1)
- Suggestion for Women's History Month Victuallers (talk) 12:39, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
- (alt2) ... that girls were first admitted to Norwich School (pictured) in 1994, marking the end of 898 years of single-sex education at the school?
- Another possible suggestion for Women's History Month Duffit talk 12:50, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
Day old GA. All of these hooks are supported by refs. Very long article. Only a small portion checked for paraphrasing. Alt2 may need overchecking but Duffit5 is happy with it. Victuallers (talk) 15:10, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
I checked the FN66 source which is supposed to support ALT2, and I don't see anything at either the archived link or the regular link that mentions the 1994 admission of girls. On the school's website, I did find a About Us → Heritage → Post War Expansion page which does, and could be substituted as an inline source citations for that specific fact (and maybe others), assuming a secondary source isn't available from the time. I think the "young girls" distinction of ALT1 (vs. the "girls" in ALT2) is perhaps misleading (for me, young girls could be six years old, which is not the case here), and the ALT1 source, from January 2007, is from a year and a half before the actual admission presumably took place and just says "girls". I think ALT1 needs a better source that nails down the actual first admission of girls younger than sixth form if this fact is to be used in DYK. In any event, ALT1 cannot be approved by Victuallers, who proposed it. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:22, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
- I found this newspaper article from 2011 which provides a timeline of coeducation at the school including the key dates, which supports Alt 1 and 2. Thanks for pointing out the problems with the original citations, which I've now corrected! Duffit talk 22:00, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
- Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to this. I like that source, but I still have problems with ALT1's "young girls" attempted distinction, so I've struck it. (No reason another hook can't be written that includes Nelson, but this one is problematic.) I think the other hooks are fine—I still prefer ALT2—but there's a disagreement between the new source's "agreed to take girls from age 11 in 2008 and from age seven the following year" and the article's "and were in every year group by September 2010". If the youngest group starts at age seven, then rather than "September 2010", shouldn't the sentence simply say "2009"? (I don't think you can give the precision of a month without a more detailed source.) Once this has been addressed, I think the nomination will be ready to go. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:48, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
Duffit5, unfortunately you can't use wording that copies or even closely resembles a source. It's against Wikipedia rules: see WP:COPYVIO and WP:Close paraphrasing. You should always put information in your own words. What's there right now is not okay, and needs to be fixed. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:14, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
I've just revised the sentence further, as the initial announcement (FN77) was January 15, 2007, the decision had to have been taken by then, and perhaps late in the previous year but not announced until then. Under the circumstances, giving the year of the decision (as opposed to the implementation) isn't supported by sourcing, nor is the use of "board of governors", so I've removed those few words. I think the article's ready for another check; under the circumstances, I think a bit more close paraphrase checking is in order just to be safe, though as Duplication Detector is down I can't do it myself right now, and I'm probably going to be offline over the weekend. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:04, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
- This does need a conclusive meta review or an approval. This is a GA with dozens of references. Can we identify the problem that is holding it up or approve it. I am quite happy with it, as is. Victuallers (talk) 10:47, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
Article meets all eligibility standards; QPQ is not required. The ALT2 hook is supported by sources and is approved, with the following minor rewording to conform with the wording in the article:
- (alt2A) ... that girls were first admitted to Norwich School (pictured) in 1994, marking the end of nearly 900 years of single-sex education at the school?
- I am NOT approving the original hook because the article does not state this as a fact (and I don't think anyone can say with any assurance what Coke was taught at Norwich). --Orlady (talk) 04:12, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
