Template:Did you know nominations/Pietà (Mestrovic)
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: rejected by reviewer, closed by AirshipJungleman29 talk 16:21, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
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Pietà (Mestrovic)
_-_interior,_the_Ivan_Mestrovic_Pieta_(1942)_made_of_Carara_marble_(cropped).jpg)
- ... that in 1942 Croatian artist Ivan Meštrović designed his statue Pietà on brown wrapping paper while incarcerated by the fascist police Ustaše? Source: https://www.jstor.org/stable/30099115 - Profile of Mestrovic by George A. Cevasco, Studies: An Irish Quarterly Review, Vol. 49, No. 193 (Spring, 1960), pp. 54-62 and https://virtualne-izlozbe.mestrovic.hr/en/drawings/faith-and-religion/
- Reviewed:
Created by Eccekevin (talk). Self-nominated at 02:07, 23 November 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Pietà (Mestrovic); consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.
Interesting hook, article is sourced and has no major copyvio issues. QPQ is not needed since this seems to be the author's second nomination. However, this article needs copyediting for clearence and tone, as currently it contains a lot of puffery words and neutrality issues. Examples include:
The sculpture is realized in Meštrović's style of deliberate linear design, with the texture of the marble made rough for clothes while smooth for skin, a technique used for many of his other works.
Thanks to sympathetic prison guards, he obtained some brown wrapping paper to sketch on.
The placement of the work in a church fulfilled one of Meštrović's greatest wishes, which was to see the Pietà installed in a religious setting.
- This is not the article, but the hook itself. I would avoid describing it as a masterpiece and use the word "statue" instead.
- Some sentences can also be split as they are too long and might cause confusion. Please let me know if there are any questions. Spinixster (chat!) 09:51, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
- Hi! I agree, word masterpiece could be seen as puffery (although to be fair, there is some level of objectivity here, meaning simply what is considered the best among works by critics and it is used by sources) - but I absolutely think we can use statue instead. Regarding the other examples, I am less convinced of a lack of NPOV: is the word "sympathetic" the issue here? it is used in the sources, and it seem a pretty objective way to describe prison guards giving good treatment to a prisoner. But if it seen as problematic, could be changed. Similarly, the sources mention his wish to see his statue in a religious setting, so I am not sure about the puffery/NPOV here? Is it the word "greatest"?. Thank you for your feedback. How do we change masterpiece -> statue? Do I do it directly in the nomination just above or must there be a different process? Eccekevin (talk)
- @Eccekevin: Thanks for the changes, the article is much better now. For the hook, you can just change it directly, since I think it's not a major change to require an alt hook. Spinixster (chat!) 07:10, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
- @Spinixster: Done, and thank you. Eccekevin (talk) 21:43, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
Nom is good to go. I assume good faith on non-English sources. Spinixster (chat!) 01:13, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
- @Spinixster and Eccekevin: Many sources are not accessible and Citation 21 does not go anywhere. I think we still have quite a bit of puffery as well; e.g. third paragraph of Analysis section. For the hook bit about brown paper I can only find
charcoal on paper (glued on plywood)
from the second source given above and in the article. Additionally the image is likely not allowed as there is no FOP for 2d or 3d art/sculpture in the US. Bruxton (talk) 15:37, 6 December 2023 (UTC)- Yeah, I can still see puffery here and there upon closer inspection. This is technically my first review, so sorry that I've missed some things. Spinixster (chat!) 02:47, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator has been inactive since November, so with issues (including with the hook) outstanding,
sadly rejecting this nomination. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:21, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
- Nominator has been inactive since November, so with issues (including with the hook) outstanding,
- Yeah, I can still see puffery here and there upon closer inspection. This is technically my first review, so sorry that I've missed some things. Spinixster (chat!) 02:47, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Spinixster and Eccekevin: Many sources are not accessible and Citation 21 does not go anywhere. I think we still have quite a bit of puffery as well; e.g. third paragraph of Analysis section. For the hook bit about brown paper I can only find
- @Spinixster: Done, and thank you. Eccekevin (talk) 21:43, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
- @Eccekevin: Thanks for the changes, the article is much better now. For the hook, you can just change it directly, since I think it's not a major change to require an alt hook. Spinixster (chat!) 07:10, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
- Hi! I agree, word masterpiece could be seen as puffery (although to be fair, there is some level of objectivity here, meaning simply what is considered the best among works by critics and it is used by sources) - but I absolutely think we can use statue instead. Regarding the other examples, I am less convinced of a lack of NPOV: is the word "sympathetic" the issue here? it is used in the sources, and it seem a pretty objective way to describe prison guards giving good treatment to a prisoner. But if it seen as problematic, could be changed. Similarly, the sources mention his wish to see his statue in a religious setting, so I am not sure about the puffery/NPOV here? Is it the word "greatest"?. Thank you for your feedback. How do we change masterpiece -> statue? Do I do it directly in the nomination just above or must there be a different process? Eccekevin (talk)
