Template:Did you know nominations/Saeed Abedini

The following is an archived discussion of Saeed Abedini's DYK nomination. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page; such as this archived nomination"s (talk) page, the nominated article's (talk) page, or the Did you know (talk) page. Unless there is consensus to re-open the archived discussion here. No further edits should be made to this page. See the talk page guidelines for (more) information.

The result was: promoted by Hawkeye7 (talk) 04:11, 11 March 2013 (UTC).

Saeed Abedini[edit]

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*... that Saeed Abedini, an Iranian American Christian pastor, is imprisoned in Iran for alleged evangelizing?

Updating based on new information: ... that Saeed Abedini, an Iranian American Christian pastor, was sentenced to eight years in prison in Iran on charges of threatening national security for his Christian activities in the country?

Reviewed: Jay Threatt

Created/expanded by Plot Spoiler (talk). Self nom at 03:21, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Violation of WP:NPOV, based on article by Zionist activist Lisa Daftari, pure Iranophobic propaganda. --109.165.188.212 (talk) 19:55, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Please ignore this POV nonsense. Plot Spoiler (talk) 19:07, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

I know it's not an aspect of DYK, but the article is fairly choppy and it would be nice for that to be cleared up before it goes on the main page. I came across the article while I was considering writing it, so I'd say I have a level of COI and won't do the full review. Ryan Vesey 19:15, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
The hook is under the character requirement; however, I still feel it is too long. What about "... that the pastor Saeed Abedini was sentenced to eight years in an Iranian prison for Christian evangelism?". It conveys the same amount of information, but is half as long. Ryan Vesey 19:24, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

I've done some rewording, which I hope addresses some of your concerns. Feel free to revise yourself though. Here is also another ALT for the hook:

ALT1 *... ~~that Saeed Abedini, an Iranian American Christian pastor, was sentenced to eight years in prison in Iran for his Christian activities in the country?~~ Plot Spoiler (talk) 19:20, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

I came to this article with an open mind but I see two issues ...

The last part of the hook "for his Christian activities in the country" is not supported by the sources which suggest that "for his Christian activities mainly during early 2000s in the country". For example Fox News January 27, 2013 reports "The evidence, the ACLJ reports, was based on Abedini’s activities primarily during the early 2000s, when house churches were not considered a threat in Iran".
The article uses only western sources (mainly US sources actually) and thus, in my opinion, it is unbalanced. Note that the Associated Press reference (ref 8 in this version) is page not found. Full disclosure: I am British-white-Christian

I tried hard but I feel unable to pass this article. It therefore needs another review --Senra (talk) 19:39, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

I fixed the dead link to the AP article.
The article uses Western sources because the state-owned Iranian media is not covering the story. Additionally, the imprisoned is an American citizen, naturally leading to interest in the American media. This does not qualify as a violation of NPOV.
I believe the hook is still accurate - "for his Christian activities in the country" is a subset of "for his Christian activities mainly during early 2000s". If you have a better ALT in mind, please post it. Plot Spoiler (talk) 20:42, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Okay, there are a number of issues with this submission. Firstly, the hook implies that "Christian activities" are illegal in Iran, which is patently not the case. The charges faced by Abedini reportedly involve "undermining state security", apparently by engaging in Christian evangelism, but since the precise charges are not known, any hook based on the charges would need to be carefully expressed. Secondly, there are a number of issues with the article, including that the article implies being a Christian in Iran is illegal, which is not the case since religious minorities are protected under the Iranian constitution. The "underground churches" referred to in the article are a particular type of Christian activity that is frowned upon by the current Iranian regime (though tolerated under the previous leadership). Also, the statement in the article that Muslims that convert to Christianity in Iran can face the death penalty for "waging war against Islam" is a misstatement of what is already an unattributed statement made by a Fox News journalist, and probably should not be in the article at all. Other sources make clear that it is not a crime in Iran to be a Muslim convert to Christianity, what apparently raises the ire of the Iranian leadership are attempts to convert other Muslims. So all these issues need to be properly sorted out before this nomination is accepted. I might have a try at fixing some of the problems in this article myself some time over the next few days. Gatoclass (talk) 09:16, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for reviewing. I've made some edits which I believe address your concerns.

I removed any language that may have implied being Christian in Iran is illegal.
I don't believe this statement currently on the page is inaccurate: "Muslims that convert to Christianity in Iran can face the death penalty for 'waging war against Islam.'" For example, "Conversion from Islam to one of the three recognized religions (apostasy) may still be punishable by death."[1] The statement does not say that converts will in all cases face the death penalty, but they definitely have in some (see Youcef Nadarkhani).

I am also offering a new version for the hook: *ALT 2 ... that Saeed Abedini, an Iranian American Christian pastor, was sentenced to eight years in prison in Iran on charges of undermining national security? Plot Spoiler (talk) 23:12, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Your changes do not begin to address the concerns I stated above. I still intend to make some changes to this article, my apologies for the delay in doing so, I will try to make this a priority. Your hook suggestion is definitely an improvement, but there are other possible alternatives which we can look at after we have come to an agreement about the article's content. Gatoclass (talk) 05:05, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Somebody please review... Gato or otherwise. Plot Spoiler (talk) 01:14, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

As I said, I still have significant concerns about this article and I still intend to make some changes to address those concerns. I have made it a priority to do so, but unfortunately I have been distracted by some other events over the last day or two. I'll try to get this article ready for review over the next couple of days. Gatoclass (talk) 08:59, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

@Plot Spoiler: Okay, I have finished my additions to the article, if the changes are acceptable to you let me know and we can move forward with the nomination. Gatoclass (talk) 11:01, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

BTW I think your hook is acceptable, apart from the word "threatening" which I have replaced by "undermining". "Threatening" sounds a bit grandiose in this context and is based on a characterization of a Christian conservative lobby group, not the most impartial of sources, news sources seem to prefer the terms "undermining" or "disrupting". Gatoclass (talk) 11:17, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your review and edits. ALT2 is good to go for me. Plot Spoiler (talk) 03:33, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

I am unable to complete the review of this article since I made a substantial edit to it, but the article is now ready for re-review. An expedited review would be appreciated since the subject is still quite topical. Gatoclass (talk) 00:35, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

after Gatoclass' edit matches all the criteria etc. ALT2 good to go.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 16:18, 10 March 2013 (UTC)