Template:Did you know nominations/Sali Aga

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by BlueMoonset (talk) 05:59, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Sali Aga[edit]

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~~... that Sali Aga was nicknamed Rudnik Bull because of the orgies with local Christian population he organized for him and his men?~~

Reviewed: First Battle of Warsaw (1794)

Created/expanded by Antidiskriminator (talk). Self nom at 20:46, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

- Length and Date verified, offline ref accepted AGF. Best, Mifter (talk) 04:59, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

I added url.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 08:06, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

If he was known for cruelty to the Christian populace, then I'm not sure "orgies" would be the best word. DS (talk) 19:27, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

That is what source on Serbian language says. Do you have another proposal?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 19:40, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Compare the modern concept of "orgy", a sex party, to the metaphorical "orgy of violence". Do we know whether Sali Aga engaged the local Christians in happy fun orgies, or in brutal hateful orgies? Considering that he was known for his cruelty, was "the Rudnik Bull" a compliment, or an insult? I strongly object to this DYK entry in its current form, and reserve the right to object to it in its future form also. DS (talk) 23:37, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

This is not about the metaphorical "orgies of violence" but sex ones. There are plenty of sources about Sali Aga and his sexual activities. The sources say that he took his nickname as a compliment. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 00:37, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

I expanded the article to present more clear picture about the nature of activities of Sali Aga. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 12:42, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Just because he took the nickname as a compliment, that doesn't mean it was intended as one. The details make it worse. "Christian brides and young women were brought to his wooden house near Rudnik every Sunday to dance in front of him so he could choose the most beautiful of them.[3] If there was more than one bride he liked he would chose more of them to stay with him for a night." This really, really sounds like organized rape, and I strongly object to having this as a frontpage entry. DS (talk) 19:49, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Why? --Antidiskriminator (talk) 19:51, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

I agree, if there was coercion involved, "orgy" is not a good word. Perhaps something like "sexual parties for him and his men" and omit the whole question of the locals?--Wehwalt (talk) 20:27, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

ALT1 ... that Sali Aga was nicknamed Rudnik Bull because of the mass rape events that he organized for himself and his men?

... Antidiskriminator, what do you think of this one? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:30, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

That works for me too.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:41, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

I don't object it.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 20:47, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Good enough. DS (talk) 01:42, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

I've struck the original hook to avoid it being selected accidentally. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 19:42, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Need a reviewer to formally check and approve (w/icon) the ALT1 hook. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:18, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

It's OK now and ALT1 is fine, but I have to say that this article should not have been passed by the original reviewer. It had many, many very obvious grammatical and linguistic problems (see [1]), some of which substantially distorted the meaning of what the author was trying to say. I've now fixed these issues but I would urge all involved to pay closer attention to the standard of writing in articles under review. Prioryman (talk) 22:41, 4 January 2013 (UTC)