Template:Did you know nominations/Sturm Cigarette Company

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 01:35, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

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Sturm Cigarette Company[edit]

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[[File:|120x133px|An ad for Nazi cigarettes ]]
An ad for Nazi cigarettes
  • ... that the Nazi SA was funded by its own cigarette company? Title:Nazi storm-troopers’ cigarettes, "...die 1929 in Dresden gegründete Firma Sturm. Ihr NS-orientierter Inhaber Arthur Dressler möchte die Marken „Trommler“, „Alarm“ und „Neue Front“ zu Standardzigaretten der SA machen. Dafür soll den Schlägertruppen Ernst Röhms eine Prämie gezahlt werden: Je mehr Sturm-Umsatz, desto höher die Prämie. Da die SA keine Mitgliedsbeiträge erhebt, sondern von Zuwendungen der NSDAP abhängt, kommt der paramilitärischen Organisation diese Finanzierungsidee wie gerufen. Fortan agitiert das wachsende Heer der Braunhemden geschäftstüchtig gegen die etablierten Hersteller, vor allem gegen Reemtsma. Den Erfolg fördert, dass die SA-Mitglieder geradezu zum Rauchen von Sturm-Zigaretten genötigt werden." Own rough translation:"...the Sturm Company, founded in 1929 in Dresden. The pro-Nazi Arthur Dressler, who registered the company, wanted to make the brands „Trommler“, „Alarm“ and „Neue Front“ the standard cigarettes of the SA. In exchange, Ernst Röhm's violent troops were to be paid a royalty: higher sales meant a higher kickback. As the SA did not charge membership fees, but was reliant on donations from the Nazi party [leadership], the paramilitary organization found this financing system ideal. From then on, the growing army of Brownshirts agitated diligently against the established competition, above all Reemstma. SA members were compelled to smoke Sturm cigarettes, which helped assure success." [1]"
    • ALT1:... that ...?
  • Reviewed: Women in Iceland
  • Comment: This is a weird one, and I'm not sure what would be appropriate as a hook or even an image here (there's one of unemployed SA men smoking in the article). The Great Depression, the fall of the Weimar Republic, street violence, the Night of the Long Knives, and even the Holocaust are background to what would otherwise be the rather banal story of a short-lived cigarette company. Advice is very welcome. I'd like to add some better context to the article before it goes up. A warning, most of the sources are in German. HLHJ (talk) 00:13, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

5x expanded by HLHJ (talk). Self-nominated at 00:13, 27 August 2018 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
QPQ: Done.

Overall: Interesting article! Suggest a shorter caption: "An ad for Nazi cigarettes". For me the picture is a bit borderline in terms of visibility, but OK. You might try reducing the size of some pictures in the article; on my small laptop screen it produces nasty sandwiching effects. Catrìona (talk) 01:03, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

ALT2: ... that, although the Nazi Party opposed tobacco smoking, the SA was funded by its own cigarette company?[2]

  • Thank you for the very fast review, Catrìona! I think your caption suggestion is good; "A Nazi cigarette ad" is short but ambiguous, "Nazis advertise their cigarette brands" is also five words, but a lot longer, and I'm not sure if the extra clarity is worth it. I increased the picture size to avoid nasty sandwiching effects; I'll have to have another go with a different scales and aspect ratios, sorry.
I've added some economic context to the bald statements of prices in obsolete currency, and a bit about Nazi tobacco policies. I made a stupid mistake yesterday; I accidentally implied that the entire population smoked, substituting population numbers for the number of smokers. I have fixed.
I've been reading some recent research (including the link you included, which I'd somehow missed; I have now added it). It looks to me as if the Nazi Party opposed smoking in the same way that they opposed monopoly, state ownership of businesses, supporting large private corporations, letting women work (outside home and farm), and restrictions of freedom of religion and worker's rights. When it was politically convenient to oppose it, they opposed it, and when it was politically convenient to do it, they did it.

ALT3: ... that, although Nazi Party ideology condemned tobacco smoking, the SA founded its own cigarette company?

ALT4: ... that the Nazis founded a cigarette company to fund their SA (while officially condemning smoking)?

The latter seems fair, as the founding was done by the party leadership, SA leaders, and private individuals who supported the Nazis, with all putting in money. Having the bold text make some sense on its own would be good. I'm not sure most readers will recognize "Sturmabteilung". "Brownshirts" might be more recognizable. "Stormtroopers" will probably evoke Star Wars. HLHJ (talk) 04:26, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
Or, sticking closer to your source:

ALT5: ... that the Nazis founded a cigarette company to fund their SA (despite the party's anti-smoking faction)?

ALT6: ... that the Nazis founded a cigarette company to fund their SA (despite Hitler's dislike of smoking)?

I somewhat favour ALT5. Comments from anyone welcome. HLHJ (talk) 02:30, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
  • Hello HLHJ, sorry I didn't notice your reply earlier. On the new hook suggestions, it seems like the "Nazi Party ideology" should be replaced with "Nazi ideology", wikilinked to Nazism. Since the article is just on the cigarette company, not on the founding of the company, the boldfaced links should be reduced to the words "a cigarette company". Personally, I am not sure that parentheses work in a hook;I suggest replacing with commas. I still like ALT2 but some of the alternatives could also work with the above tweaks. Catrìona (talk) 09:27, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
  • No problem, Catrìona, I initially forgot to ping you. Agree on the ideology wikilink , but Anti-tobacco movement in Nazi Germany might be an even better target. I'd like to fix some of its problems before linking to it from the main page, though (in progress). I like ALT2 too, I"m just uncertain as to whether the recent sources support the first clause. Some of the most powerful members and sections of the Nazi Party supported smoking, against Hitler and a faction within the party. "Nazis founded a cigarette company" does suggest that the article is about the founding. "...a cigarette company to fund the Nazi SA" might make a better boldfaced link, as it describes the target better. HLHJ (talk) 18:56, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

ALT7: ... that, despite the party's anti-smoking faction, a Nazi cigarette company funded the SA paramilitary?

(edit conflict) OK, as this is actually in the prep area, I've been bold and edited Anti-tobacco movement in Nazi Germany; despite a request to discuss changes on the article talk page, there seems not to have been any actual discussion since 2016, and edits to the talk page and the article brought no response. We need to decide on a hook; I've tried to include all your recommendations, including "concise". HLHJ (talk) 04:08, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Per WT:DYK, this was not ready for promotion. Alt hooks were still being discussed. — Maile (talk) 01:20, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Great, not so urgent anymore. Removing the parends was a good suggestion, they really didn't work. I've attempted a short, hooky bold text. I'll see if I can think of anything better along the lines you suggest, but would appreciate your comments. HLHJ (talk) 04:13, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

I like ALT7. It is hooky and does not misrepresent the subject. However, "SA paramilitary" does not scan for me, since paramilitary is usually an adjective. I suggest instead "Sturmabteilung (SA)". Catrìona (talk) 04:32, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

ALT8: ... that, despite the party's anti-smoking faction, a Nazi cigarette company (advertisement pictured) funded the Sturmabteilung (SA)?

Thank you, Catrìona. It is often "paramilitary group" or "wing" or some such. I think I was sort of trying to say Freikorps, so "militia" might work better than "paramilitary", apart from sometimes being associated with the state. I'm OK with "Sturmabteilung" too, I'm just trying, probably uselessly, to shoehorn in a description of the SA for those unaware of what it was. I'm also happy with your original caption suggestion, unless you prefer something else. HLHJ (talk) 05:05, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
Good to go then. Note to promoter that ALT8 is accepted, and the image caption should be "An ad for Nazi cigarettes" as discussed above. Catrìona (talk) 05:38, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
Added (advertisement pictured) note to the ALT8 hook; striking hooks 1-7 not approved; adjusted image caption as noted. — Maile (talk) 11:56, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
Looks good. Thank you, Maile. We could probably say (ad pictured), for brevity. HLHJ (talk) 18:31, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
This seems to be in limbo, as it is not linked from anywhere in the DYK pipeline. Catrìona, Maile, I probably shouldn't move this into "approved" myself. May I ask one of you to move it? I've reordered the hook slightly to make the parends less intrusive, but if you don't think it's preferable that's fine. HLHJ (talk) 01:25, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

ALT9: ... that, despite the party's anti-smoking faction, the Sturmabteilung (SA) was funded by a Nazi cigarette company (ad pictured)?

HLHJ Moves to the approved list are done automatically by a bot. — Maile (talk) 01:29, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, Maile, I was not thinking. Should I put it back on the nominated page, then, per the automated message on my talk page? HLHJ (talk)
HLHJ Apparently, I'm the one who dropped the ball. I so seldom pull anything from prep and didn't think that it should have been placed back in the nominations page. Sorry about that. It's back on the list now. Also, I'm putting the turn-around icon on this so reviewers will know that ALT9 needs to be approved. — Maile (talk) 00:24, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
No problem, thank you. I put a note on Catrìona's talk page about the ALT9 hook. Reply:

@HLHJ: Looks good but I think someone else will have to promote it, because I have contributed slightly to the current hook. Catrìona (talk) 01:17, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Which is fair enough. Any volunteers? HLHJ (talk) 01:55, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
  • @HLHJ: Is it okay if I approve ALT9 then promote it as well? Since ALT9 is just a rephrasing of one of the earlier approved hooks. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:52, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
@Narutolovehinata5: I don't object; your guess as to whether anyone else would is better probably than mine. Thank you either way! HLHJ (talk) 21:02, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
Done. Giving this the tick and will promote this once the bot moves it to the approved page. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:13, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
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