Template:Did you know nominations/Tell Qudadi

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 21:22, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

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Tell Qudadi

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  • ... that a recent study showed that the ruins of Tell Qudadi in Tel Aviv, which was believed to have been an Israelite fortress razed by the Assyrians some 2700 years ago, was actually built by the Assyrians themselves?
    • ALT1:... that almost 20 years before it was discovered as the site of a 2700-year-old fortress, the ancient site of Tell Qudadi in Tel Aviv was a military stronghold during the battles between the Ottoman and the British during World War I?
    • ATL2:... that a recent study showed the ruins of Tell Qudadi in Tel Aviv, once believed to be an Israelite fortress razed by the Assyrians was actually an Assyrian fortress built 2,700 years ago?
    • ATL3:... that the site of a 2,700 year old fortress in Tel Aviv was used as a military stronghold during World War I, nearly 20 years prior to its discovery?

5x expanded by Bolter21 (talk). Self-nominated at 15:40, 13 October 2019 (UTC).

  • This article is a five-fold expansion and is new enough and long enough. The article is neutral and I detected no copyright or plagiarism issues. A QPQ has been done. Both the hooks are too long, 200 characters are allowed and they are 215 and 230 characters long. Also, although the article is well referenced, DYK demands a citation for any hook fact at the end of the sentence involved, not just at the end of the paragraph. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:47, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
  • Alright, I've created two new hooks and now I personally prefer ATL3. Can you please explain again what exactly do you wish I'll do with the citation? I can provide a citation for the hook, but I understood from what you wrote that you want to me cite the specific sentence in the article, which I don't remember being an obligation for DYK, so I am confused.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 21:01, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
  • @Bolter21: each hook fact has to be supported by an inline cite in the article. Please make sure there is a citation at the end of each of the sentences supporting these hook facts for ALT3:
  1. It is a 2,700-year-old fortress
  2. It is in Tel Aviv
  3. It was used as a military stronghold during WWI nearly 20 years before its discovery
  • Well, there are sources for these, it is just that facts are written slightly different in the article. Not a single paragraph stands without an inline cite, with the exception of the lead section which contains information that already appears in the rest of the article. It is indeed a 2,700-year-old fortress since it was erected in the 8th century BCE and it is in Tel Aviv, I literally stood on the ruins a week ago. It is most supported simply by the title of one of the citations: "Archaeologists Solve Mystery of 2,700-year-old Fortress in Tel Aviv". As for the third point you raised, it is written in the same source: "Although the Turkish army actually used the ancient mound as a stronghold against Allied forces in 1917, the site was only recognized as an antiquities site in 1934, when the remains of the fort were discovered by J. Ory of the Department of Antiquities of the Mandatory Government of Palestine." Which means, there is a gap of 17 years before a military stronghold was discovered as a 2,600-year-old military stronghold (adjusted that same time period).
Shall I rephrase the article to match the hook? I'll be honest with you I've made several DYKs in the past and maybe it is my English but I really fail to see the problem here.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 07:31, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
What Yoninah is trying to say is that the sentences in the article that mention the facts used in the hook(s) must have at least one inline citation after that sentence. For the purposes of DYK, it is not sufficient even if the footnote supporting the fact is located elsewhere in the paragraph or at its end; for DYK purpose, the actual sentence is required to have the inline citation (i.e. the footnote). Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 13:00, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
What I am trying to say is that there is a footnote for each of the sentences.-Bolter21 (talk to me) 16:48, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
    • ATL3a:... that Tell Qudadi, a buried 2,700 year old fortress, was unknowingly used as the site of a military stronghold during World War I? Shapira, Ran (2016-05-28). "Archaeologists Solve Mystery of 2,700-year-old Fortress in Tel Aviv". Haaretz. Retrieved 2018-02-18.
Thoughts? --evrik (talk) 20:27, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
That actually sounds pretty good. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:36, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
Fine by me.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 19:09, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
I don't like stating in the hook that it is a 2,700-year-old fortress when its date is in dispute. What about:-
    • ATL3b:... that Tell Qudadi, a buried Iron Age fort built on the ruins of another, was unknowingly used as the site of a military stronghold during World War I? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:12, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
    • ATL3c:... that Tell Qudadi, a buried Iron Age era fortress, was unknowingly used as the site of a military stronghold during World War I? --evrik (talk) 15:30, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
  • ALT4: ...that World War I fortress Tell Qudadi was built thousands of years ago, in Tel Aviv, but not by Israelites? ~ R.T.G 22:41, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
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