Template:Did you know nominations/The Rocking Carol
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 14:46, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
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The Rocking Carol[edit]
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Mary and Jesus
- ... that The Rocking Carol, which includes "We will rock you" as a chorus, is sung as a lullaby to the baby Jesus (pictured)? Source: The Christmas Carol Reader. Routledge. p. 30. ISBN 1136591451.
- ALT1:
... that "We will rock you" is a Christmas carol about Jesus (Nativity of Jesus pictured)?Source: Emmaus Bible Resources Christ Our Life: Colossians. Church House Publishing. pp. 19–20, 98. ISBN 0715149873.
- ALT1:
- Reviewed: Dusty Allen
- Comment: For the obligatory Christmas carol on Christmas Day (25th December)
Created by The C of E (talk). Self-nominated at 13:42, 15 November 2017 (UTC).
Never heard of that carol, thus interesting, on good-looking sources, offline sources accepted AGF, no copyvio obvious. Obviously, the image is good for nothing in that size, looks almost abstract. I don't know why you don't have it larger at least in the article. But you can also drop it completely because it seems to have nothing particular to do with the song. - Striking the ALT, because I don't think we need to tell our readers that Christmas carols are about Jesus. - Thank you for using an infobox! It has a parameter "based_on" which you could use to say that it is based on a Czech carol. - Why do you mix title case with quotation marks? I think it should be The Rocking Carol or "Little Jesus, sweetly sleep", title or incipit. - I miss information on the tune, - the article gives me no idea how it sounds, besides "rocking". Number of stanzas? Number of lines per stanza? Metre? - I don't know how to understand "modern cradle". - Can you tell us if anybody still sings it, and who? - I grew up with "Stille Nacht", but never understood it as a lullaby: it's not even addressing the baby. Same for "Away in a manger". - Some time until Christmas to add. My song 2017 will be "Ich steh an deiner Krippen hier" this year, but I am still busy with Thanksgiving and end-of-the-church-year thoughts. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:40, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: I have added info about the metre, verse and lines. I have to disagree with you on the ALT is it is a subtle hint to the Queen "We Will Rock You" song. Quotation marks are used as it is common for songs and hymns to use these in DYK. I think we should use the image so there is the option of having the Nativity scene on the main page at Christmas, if you can think of a better image then let me know please. Modern cradle is being used compared with the manger (which probably wouldn't have rocked). Could you re-review and tick please? The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 14:05, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
- Thank you for adding, can you now also sort it a bit (history - text - tune - reception)? To avoid having a comparison before even a description? - I think the subtle hint is in the original hook also, no? I missed it, of course ;) - Quotation marks are for the the beginnings of hymns in sentence case, to set that text apart from other text. When it's already clear (by title case capitals, or italics, or the position in a table), they are not needed. - How about "more modern" or whatever, - "modern cradle" sounds like a contradiction in terms. Cradle fashionable when it was written? - I expect Johnbod to supply a Christmas card, therefore plan my hymn without image. If you want to keep the image in your article, please make some connection per caption. Or - better - find something where a "modern cradle" is visible. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:31, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: I have now made the changes. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 15:09, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
- Thank you. This is supposed to be a Christmas gift, right. Let's start polishing.
- I made the featured image visible and gave it a proper caption. (Why would you use Virgin Mary, a redirect, when virginity is not a topic?) I avoided mentioning the 17th-century date.
- I changed the caption, but ask again: can you describe before it's published, and not mix it with comparison (that's not analysis, which is looking at details of the given subject).
- The link to baby Jesus in hook and article goes to a redirect, and that goes to Child, not baby, - I think Nativity of Jesus would be a better choice.
- "The carol was first collected in 1920 in Czechoslovakia from a traditional Czech carol and was translated into English loosely by Percy Dearmer.", Sorry, I don't understand "collection from a carol", and say "freely" instead of "loosely". For a start. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:26, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: I have made the changes, can you add the tick now please? The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 15:43, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
- Sorry, I may have language problems. What does "was collected" mean in this case? "Appeared in a collection"? Still two "translated" in close succession. Do you have a source describing "Stille Nacht" as a lullaby? Next: "The carol is sung in the form of the performer singing", - really? You can ask for a different reviewer, but I can't approve a line like that. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:05, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: I'd rather not go down the other reviewer as the wall of text we've made here would scare people away from it. As for your concerns, I have reworded the collected line and changed the translated one. For Silent Night, I am citing what the source at the end of the sentence says (The Christmas Carol Reader one). Finally I have changed that performer line. I hope this is sufficient for you so we can pass this finally. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 09:48, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
- You seem not in the mood for polishing your Christmas gift ;) - I did some myself, am still not happy, especially with the last sentence, but have other topics.
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:02, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
- Hi, I came by to promote this, and I love the inference to Queen's hit in ALT1, but I think it's misleading to call the carol by the name of its chorus. Could we write:
- ALT1a: ... that a traditional Czech Christmas carol about baby Jesus has the chorus "We will rock you"? Yoninah (talk) 23:32, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
- @Yoninah: Yes I'm fine with that. I'm happy for you to promote that. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 09:22, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
- Sorry to spoil the fun, but it doesn't work, because the article is about the English carol derived from the Czech, and if we say "We will rock you" is the refrain of anything Czech we'll get laughter at best. I'd also try to avoid "about baby Jesus" when the you being rocked is that baby, - "to you" perhaps? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:55, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
- Fine @Gerda Arendt: We can just do this instead:
- ALT1b:
... that a traditional Christmas carol about baby Jesus has the chorus "We will rock you"?I know English isn't your first language but the language used is fine because the hook states that as it is about baby Jesus, it would be clear that the baby is the one being being rocked. I hope either you or @Yoninah: can pass this in time for Christmas as the Christmas set is being built at the moment. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 12:21, 21 December 2017 (UTC)- Would you find a way to place "Baby Jesus" to explain the "you" in the hook? "Christmas carol about baby Jesus" sounds redundant, most of them are, more or less, no? Don't worry, this nom is in the special occasions, so will not miss Christmas Day. We can still try to be precise. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:17, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: if too much is explained, the ironic name of the chorus gets lost. We can't say it was sung as a lullaby to baby Jesus, because that blunts the "We will rock you" inference to rock 'n roll. I think ALT1b is fine. Yoninah (talk) 14:32, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
- ALT1c:... that a traditional Christmas carol has the chorus "We will rock you"
- We can link Christmas carol if you are afraid that readers on Christmas day don't know it's about Baby Jesus. If you want ALT1b, you'll need another reviewer ;) - The original is also approved, btw. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:40, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
- Would you find a way to place "Baby Jesus" to explain the "you" in the hook? "Christmas carol about baby Jesus" sounds redundant, most of them are, more or less, no? Don't worry, this nom is in the special occasions, so will not miss Christmas Day. We can still try to be precise. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:17, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
- Sorry to spoil the fun, but it doesn't work, because the article is about the English carol derived from the Czech, and if we say "We will rock you" is the refrain of anything Czech we'll get laughter at best. I'd also try to avoid "about baby Jesus" when the you being rocked is that baby, - "to you" perhaps? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:55, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: I'd rather not go down the other reviewer as the wall of text we've made here would scare people away from it. As for your concerns, I have reworded the collected line and changed the translated one. For Silent Night, I am citing what the source at the end of the sentence says (The Christmas Carol Reader one). Finally I have changed that performer line. I hope this is sufficient for you so we can pass this finally. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 09:48, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
- Sorry, I may have language problems. What does "was collected" mean in this case? "Appeared in a collection"? Still two "translated" in close succession. Do you have a source describing "Stille Nacht" as a lullaby? Next: "The carol is sung in the form of the performer singing", - really? You can ask for a different reviewer, but I can't approve a line like that. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:05, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
- Thank you. This is supposed to be a Christmas gift, right. Let's start polishing.
- @Gerda Arendt: I have now made the changes. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 15:09, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
- Thank you for adding, can you now also sort it a bit (history - text - tune - reception)? To avoid having a comparison before even a description? - I think the subtle hint is in the original hook also, no? I missed it, of course ;) - Quotation marks are for the the beginnings of hymns in sentence case, to set that text apart from other text. When it's already clear (by title case capitals, or italics, or the position in a table), they are not needed. - How about "more modern" or whatever, - "modern cradle" sounds like a contradiction in terms. Cradle fashionable when it was written? - I expect Johnbod to supply a Christmas card, therefore plan my hymn without image. If you want to keep the image in your article, please make some connection per caption. Or - better - find something where a "modern cradle" is visible. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:31, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
