Template:Did you know nominations/Turtle-back tombs

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Allen3 ^talk 22:58, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Turtle-back tombs

(

• Back to T:TDYK
• Article history

)

• ... that while Chinese emperors had stone tortoises guard their tombs, some of their subjects in Fujian were laid to rest under plaster tortoises?

• Reviewed: Abbasid invasion of Asia Minor (782)

Created/expanded by Vmenkov (talk). Self nom at 18:42, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Length ok; hook facts all separately referenced in article; date almost ok (per ignore all rules); interesting article for sure; couple of queries - when do the earliest of these date from? Are they confined to Fujian - not necessarily per Groot? Are these all for inhumation not cremation? Apparently wp policies disapprove of image galleries, so maybe reduce some of your Islamic cemetery images, pop another choice one in the text, and supplement by a bixi grave stele for context/comparsion/to illustrate your dyk fact? Are turtle graves unusual in Islamic burials otherwise? See alsos - bixi and funerary customs? It's my understanding from this page and its refs that the phrase turtle tomb originated in the general shape of the mound with the more detailed turtle ornamentation coming later - is this correct and, if so, a conceit worth stressing in the lede? Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 06:58, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

My mistake above (moved from user space); date, length, hook all ok; good to go, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 20:51, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks! As to your questions and suggestions:

• "when do the earliest of these date from?" - I will try to find a source for this.
• "Are they confined to Fujian - not necessarily per Groot?" - Although sources don't say that explicitly, it appears to me that the (Chinese) turtleback tombs are strongly associated with the Minnan people (a.k.a. Hoklo); some sources mention that they are found at some locations outside Fujian (Taiwan, Penghu Islands, Guangdong, maybe some overseas places in SE Asia) - I suppose exactly in those areas of these regions where Minnan/Hoklo people live. I will look for a good source for this.
• "Are these all for inhumation not cremation?" Chinese version - definitely inhumation, at least traditionally; de Groot spends hundreds of pages talking about burying bodies, but does not seem to mention cremation. I will mention that. The Rykyu version is for, uh, a two-stage burial, as described in the article.
• "Apparently wp policies disapprove of image galleries, so maybe reduce some of your Islamic cemetery images, pop another choice one in the text, and supplement by a bixi grave stele for context/comparsion/to illustrate your dyk fact?" - will reorganize eventually.
• "Are turtle graves unusual in Islamic burials otherwise?" - definitely so, although I can't easily find a reference for the absence of turtle imagery in Islamic burials elsewhere. The traditional tomb style, if you can afford it, is sarcophagus-type, whether you're in Istanbul, in Kashgar, or in Quanzhou. So it was quite amazing for me to find those "turtles" in the Muslim cemetery in Quanzhou - but then of course the practices of Fujian Hui people are often quite different from those of Muslim people in more "mainstream" Muslim areas. There are even some Christian graves in the same Lingshan Islamic cemetery!
• "See alsos - bixi and funerary customs?" - done
• "It's my understanding from this page and its refs that the phrase turtle tomb originated in the general shape of the mound with the more detailed turtle ornamentation coming later" - this sounds logical, but I don't have references to this in sources, one way or another.

I'll do some expansion based on the above points, when/if I find suitable sources. Vmenkov (talk) 02:44, 1 April 2012 (UTC)