Template:Did you know nominations/William Cotton Hobdy

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by 97198 (talk) 07:28, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

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William Cotton Hobdy[edit]

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Liliuokalani
Liliuokalani

Created by KAVEBEAR (talk). Self-nominated at 23:01, 28 October 2017 (UTC).

  • Comment: We are hoping to have this run on November 11, the centennial anniversary of her death.
I changed details, please check if you can live with it. Please do something about "While Hobdy had been living in Hawaii, furnishings and artifacts from the monarchy years of Iolani Palace were not necessarily preserved, or treated as being of historic value." I guess it was true for a longer time period. In the article, the title Queen is within the link for Queen Kapiolani. I suggest to do that also for the hook, piped. Now review:
I'm not sure what you are asking me to do about the sentence about historic value. — Maile (talk) 15:10, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
Interesting life, on good sources, no copyvio obvious. Image is licensed and a must on a memorial day. I'd support to also bold the Queen then, ignoring a rule. - Can you look at the image question on BWV 80 for me? It's also for a memorial day? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:33, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
I like this one more than the others listed below, which strike me as sounding somewhat desperate. This one is of genuine relevance, esp. as relating to the anniversary of her death. KDS4444 (talk) 06:49, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
  • ALT2 ... that William Cotton Hobdy, private physician to Queen Liliuokalani (pictured), once punched the captain of the American Maru for being too slow in responding to an order for a health inspection?
@Gerda Arendt and KAVEBEAR: Offering ALT1 and ALT2— Maile (talk) 13:47, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
I personally don't like these because the focus is taken away from Liliuokalani which is the whole point of this. Hobdy is an interesting person in his own rights no doubt. I would support an IAR by the promoter of the eventual approved hook and bold the link to Liliuokalani in the hook as well. ––KAVEBEAR (talk) 15:36, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
I'm afraid I wouldn't support an exception to bold the Liliuokalani article; it isn't eligible in that way. The picture, if it's chosen, should be more than enough to highlight her, and she'll probably be in the OTD birth/death listing as well. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:16, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
  • @KAVEBEAR: I support your decision, whatever it is. Personally, I see, as they say in Hawaii, "plenty pilikia" on WT:DYK if you go with the original hook. In particular if you want the lead hook for that day. Most people have their doctor around when they die if they have been ill for a while. Mo' bettah, come up with something else, bruddah. — Maile (talk) 18:32, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Not sure if this threads the needle of putting Hobdy first but keeping enough focus on Liliuokalani; the "100 years ago today" gives a good reason for that focus. Was wondering why Hawaii or Hawaiian hasn't been included in any hooks, since it would probably give another touchstone of interest for casual readers who've never heard of her or him. BlueMoonset (talk) 18:47, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
  • I like this. Maybe you could insert "Hawaii's last monarch" before her name. Would that do it? — Maile (talk) 19:06, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
Late to this (rehearsal most of the day): I still like the original best, and I think she looks Hawaiian enough to not have to add it. If you still want to add it, please word a ALT that a prep builder can take without reading all this. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:00, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
Do you really think that most people looking at the main page will recognize from the photo that this is a Hawaiian woman, or even necessarily a Hawaiian name? I am not so sanguine, and don't think we should assume that her ethnicity is obvious based on the image. I don't think I'd use both "Hawaii's last monarch" and the title "Queen" in the same hook. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:16, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
Why not just pipelink to "Queen Liliuokalani of Hawaii"?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 06:35, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
Word an ALT you agree on. I can't, or will be told it's my hook which I can't approve. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:49, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
--KAVEBEAR (talk) 018:48, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
  • I like this one a lot; I think it says what you wanted to convey, in such a way that it is less likely to be challenged. — Maile (talk) 18:57, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
Sorry, I prefer the original, because we have different time zones. For me, Reformation Day is over, for you, not yet. "Today" is misleading. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:05, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
acceptable, tweaked slightly. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:26, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
Comment: I cannot count the number of anniversary hooks at DYK that have used the word "today" over the years, so I balk at the claim that it's misleading. We never mistake April Fools or Christmas, even when some time zones have yet to start or have already finished, and I rather doubt that when November 11 rolls around next year, there will be any confusion about "today" in relation to the World War I armistice being 100 years ago that day. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:37, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
In the light of that, I approve ALT4 also. - I made a few hooks with "today" myself, but then it was "today", not "100 years ago today", + it didn't really matter which date it was (while for an anniversary commemoration I think it matters), + my hooks concerned a topic close to UTC, not at the border. - I leave it to the prep builder. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:45, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Personally, I think the hook totally distracts from the image.
  • KAVEBEAR (talk · contribs) is this supposed to run in Queue 2 or 3? It would seem to be the latter, based on Hawaii time. Yoninah (talk) 21:12, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Based on the World Clock, Hawaii's time is 3 hours behind Los Angeles. Queue 3 would then run it from 1 p.m. on November 11 to 1 p.m. on November 12. If I calculated that correctly, Queue 3 gives it maximum coverage on November 11 in the afternoon and evening. Yes? — Maile (talk) 21:21, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
  • No. I don't see how you can possibly justify it running starting when November 11 is already over for everyone but the Americas, and to run only 11 hours in Hawaii when it could run for 13 (midnight through 1pm). Since this is a centennial hook, the world should get to be in on it, not be told about it when it's already over. Put it in Prep 2. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:59, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Well, I understand what you are saying and do not disagree with it. However, what is this 11-13 hour thing? Daylight savings time ended yesterday. However, Hawaii never changes their clocks anyway. — Maile (talk) 22:42, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Maile, you're the one who said there was three hours difference, and Los Angeles is UTC-8 now that DST is over, so I went with what you said. However, it turns out that Hawaii is UTC-10 all year, which means on November 11 at 00:00 UTC, when Prep 2 will hit the main page, it will be 14:00 on November 10 in Hawaii, and the hook will run 10 hours on November 10 and the remaining 14 hours on November 11, or until 2pm local time. It's even more clear, in that case, that this should be promoted to Prep 2. The Sophia hook currently in the Prep 2 lead slot can be moved to a later prep to make room. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:21, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
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