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May 2012
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Official maps

I know that our main source for the needs of station naming is the PDF map. The GIF map on the same site is not. Does this make it less official? When we say "official maps", we mean at least all the maps that can be found on the MTA's site.

Note that they updated the Barclays Center station on the GIF map before the PDF one. Also note that we updated the articles following the GIF map. Vcohen (talk) 09:33, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

There can only be one official map. The PDF is the same as the printed map. This page is an extremely simplified version. The web page is often updated sooner than the official map, and it includes info that will appear on the next map. I updated the ADA status of two stations, and Legendary Ranger updated the name of the Atlantic Avenue complex based on the fact that the next map will show those changes. So, no, I would say the web page is not the official map, but I'm not opposed to the recent changes that have happened because the web page was updated sooner than the official map. Also, the official map takes precedence over any other conflicting info from the MTA. Acps110 (talk • contribs) 14:26, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
OK. Now I have two questions.
  1. Where can I read that the PDF is the only official map? (I need this for myself only, not to edit anything just now.)
  2. What kind of changes may be done following changes on the web page and what kind must not be done? Vcohen (talk) 14:45, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
The talk page of the naming convention has considerable discussion on how the PDF became the established consensus. I typically like to wait until the new version of the PDF comes out become making changes, but I was annoyed by the delay. If you notice something on the web page that has changed and aren't sure if you should be bold, just ask a question on the project talk page. Acps110 (talk • contribs) 16:34, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
Well, I'll wait. (There is another article that I've changed, undo it too if you wish.)
However, my question is about "official maps" in terms of the MTA, not of Wikipedia and/or our project. When we say something like "all official maps are blah-blah-blah" and there is one map that is not, then we have to change "all" to "some" - but only if that one map is really official. Therefore I want to know which maps are considered official and which are not (and where I can read about this). Vcohen (talk) 16:51, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
P.S. On the talk page of the naming convention there is only one paragraph (by Marc Shepherd) that mentions the PDF: For instance, on the MTA website, there is an interactive subway map and a PDF map. The interactive map has "42nd Street – Grand Central," and the PDF has "Grand Central – 42nd Street." I don't think it matters very much which one we choose. Even if we choose one map to be "more equal than others", a usual reader still sees all these maps as equally official, and the statement "all official maps include the SIR" is already false. Vcohen (talk) 10:59, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
I'm not talking about just any map from the MTA, but THE official system map. The MTA prints lots of maps that include subway information but not the SIR, however none of these maps are the official map. Just because a map comes from the MTA does not make it the official map. All of the official system maps from the MTA have included the SIR since 1998. Acps110 (talk • contribs) 19:47, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
Don't tell me that an internal decision of Wikipedia's editors can make a map official. Wikipedia is not a source, neither are its talk pages. Vcohen (talk) 21:20, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
P.S. Here they say that the PDF is just another format of the same map. Give me please a source that disproves that. Vcohen (talk) 20:46, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Removing content from Apple-related articles

Please stop vandalising the Apple articles, if you have an issue with Jonathan Ive the designer of these products please discuss it in talk history don't just delete entries. Twobells (talk) 12:09, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

He wasn't vandalising the article, the burden is with you to source the claim that you have added in the articles. You failed to do that, reverting unsourced claims in any article is a basic right given to any editor who doubts the accuracy of the content. Your additions to the iPad 2 have been removed, feel free to include your claims after locating and citing a source YuMaNuMa Contrib 14:28, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
Twobells, we have been through this before. Jonathan Ive didn't design any of the products you think he did. He may have been a part of a team of folks at Apple who designed these products. Unsourced additions can be removed from Wikipedia by any editor. That's all I was doing. Acps110 (talk • contribs) 16:54, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Fulton Street Transit Center + World Trade Center Transportation Hub

Excuse me, I'm here with a new set of questions.

1. The Fulton Street (New York City Subway) complex:

2. The Chambers Street – World Trade Center / Park Place (New York City Subway) complex:

3. One single station:

Question 1. Which stations are included in the World Trade Center Transportation Hub? There is no article dedicated to it. I guess that the answer is 2+3.

Question 2. Which stations are included in the Fulton Street Transit Center? I guess that the answer is 1+2+3, but the "+" between the 1 and 2 is out-of-system. Vcohen (talk) 19:52, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

  1. The World Trade Center Transportation Hub doesn't exist yet. When it is completed, it will include Chambers Street – World Trade Center (A, ​C, and ​E trains); Park Place (2 and ​3 trains); World Trade Center (PATH station) (NWK – WTC, HOB – WTC trains); Cortlandt Street (IRT Broadway – Seventh Avenue Line) (1 train) and Cortlandt Street (BMT Broadway Line) (N, ​R, and ​W trains). The WTC transportation hub article currently redirects to the PATH station's article.
  2. The Fulton Street Transit Center includes all of the existing Fulton Street stations, but does NOT include Seaport (IND Second Avenue Line) at the corner of Fulton and Water Streets.
The Dey Street Passageway is the connector between the two otherwise unconnected complexes. It is unclear if transfers between subway stations at the WTC hub will be free or outside of fare control. They could be free AND outside of fare control, by requiring people to swipe their MetroCards to get out of one station (encoding a limited transfer, good only for 10 minutes and only at turnstiles of the other stations in the complex), and then swipe back in at the next. I hope that the MTA will attempt some form of renaming to unify the stations there.
Here's an animation of what it might look like to enter at Fulton Street and Broadway, go through the Dey Street Passageway into the WTC hub and continue across towards the World Financial Center on the other side of West Street (from the Port Authority's website). Acps110 (talk • contribs) 20:34, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
One additional thing to point out... The Fulton Street Transit Center upgrade is an MTA project, the WTC hub is a Port Authority project. Acps110 (talk • contribs) 23:28, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
So, I have to add:
4. One single station:
Now, if I understand correctly:
  • The WTC hub is 2+3+4, and your "unclear" refers to it.
  • The Fulton Street Center will only include the existing complex 1.
  • The Dey Street Passageway will be between 1 and 2 and certainly out-of-system.
Am I right? Vcohen (talk) 14:17, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
Almost right. WTC hub is 2+3+4 + World Trade Center (PATH station). The rest you have right. Acps110 (talk • contribs) 18:29, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. I factor out the PATH stations, because I only deal with the subway.
Now I think I have a list of things that we should fix.
Am I right this time? Vcohen (talk) 19:32, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
Even the MTA seems to be confused about their own system. This page on the MTA's website shows the E, N and R trains listed on it which can't be right if the Dey Street Passageway is out of system. This NY Times animation from 2008 shows the Dey Street Passageway as in-system, and a ramp from the southbound Cortlandt Street (BMT) platform to the World Trade Center (E) platform. I haven't seen any evidence of that ramp being built. I think we should probably leave things as they are until the Dey Street Passageway opens in November. Once the official map is updated (depicting the Dey Street Passageway), we will have a primary source that shows what is and isn't part of the Fulton Street Transit Center.
As to the connections at WTC (PATH station), WP is not a travel guide. It only shows what NYCS services are available there currently. There is no reason to show how things connect, especially since it will probably change many times before construction is complete. We still don't have a re-opening date for the Cortlandt St (IRT) station, so it's still premature to include that station. Acps110 (talk • contribs) 15:45, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
OK, thank you.
By the way, the MTA's presentation is anyway wrong, since the E at WTC is connected to the A and C at Chambers St and to the 2 and 3 at Park Pl, so it's impossible that the WTC station is included in a complex and Chambers St + Park Pl are not. They seem to have omitted them because these trains are already included at Fulton St, it's correct concerning trains, but it isn't correct concerning stations. Vcohen (talk) 17:10, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Before this section goes to the archive... I've found something strange. [1] [2] It looks like a passageway connecting the entrances of the Fulton Street complex and the BMT Cortlandt Street station. What is this? Vcohen (talk) 12:51, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

That doesn't look like it's related to the MTA. It looks like a service drive for trucks to unload into the basement of that building or an entrance to an underground parking garage. Those bollards look like they are retractable. Acps110 (talk • contribs) 16:08, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
Thanks a lot. Vcohen (talk) 16:14, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

R179 subway cars

Heres my source of Information about the R179 subway cars, that ALSKAW has put in a protest about same.

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/24651-bombardier-r179-b-division-discussion/page__st__600

Feel free to ask me anything about the MTA

Thank You.

Sincerely,

Joseph Lee jlee39@verizon.net or <redacted>. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.41.73.202 (talk) 06:18, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for providing that; This is the first I'm hearing about a protest. Unfortunately, message boards aren't reliable sources, and can't be used here on Wikipedia. Acps110 (talk • contribs) 16:16, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
May 2012
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