User:Certes/New York

Proposed moves

New York (disambiguation) → New York

New York → New York (state)

The term New York has no primary topic, therefore New York should be the title of a disambiguation page. The title of the state article, currently called New York, requires a qualifier such as New York (state). The purpose of this change is to ease navigation and bring consistency with similar pages.

Arguments and evidence

Primary topic for the term New York

A recent RFC concluded that the state is not the primary topic for New York. The city is ahead of the state and all other meanings in both WP:PRIMARYTOPIC criteria: usage and long-term significance. The city is much better known than the state on a global scale, and the city's article receives two to three times as many views as the state's.

The RFC was inconclusive as to whether the city's lead is sufficient to make it the primary topic. To minimize disruption for readers and editors, this proposal takes the view that there is no primary topic. The alternative view, which would lead to New York becoming the title of (or a primary redirect to) the New York City article, is not being proposed here. However, this RM should not prevent any future discussion of that alternative.

Use of the title New York

WP:Disambiguation says that If there is no primary topic, the term should be the title of a disambiguation page. Therefore, New York should be the title of the page which is currently at New York (disambiguation). WP:ATDAB says that If the topic is not primary, the ambiguous name cannot be used and so must be disambiguated. As the state is, by consensus, not the primary topic, this confirms that the state article cannot use the unqualified title New York.

A recent cleanup fixed about 20,000 links to New York which were intended for the city, despite the article being about the state. More such links are being added daily. Use of the title New York for the state article clearly confuses both readers and editors.

Sending readers who search for New York directly to the state article places WP:UNDUE emphasis on the state over the city which is at least as important.

Title of the state article

WP:ATDAB suggests a number of ways to qualify the title of the state article. The best choice is a matter of opinion. This proposal suggests New York (state) for four reasons:

1. retains the state's common name per WP:COMMONNAME, qualified as necessary
2. consistency with Washington (state), Chihuahua (state), Rio de Janeiro (state) and many others
3. clarity: New York (state) appears to be the most concise unambiguous title
4. technical convenience: New York (state) is an existing redirect and is already used for most links to the state article

Refutation of counterarguments

The following arguments have been used to oppose previous proposals. Text in italics paraphrases editors' comments and is not direct quotation.

• WP:COMMONNAME – The state is normally called "New York". So is the city. That is why there is no primary topic, and neither article can use the title without a qualifier.
• WP:DONOHARM – Keeping the status quo will break nothing. The thousands of misdirected links prove that something is already broken. This proposal aims to mend it.
• WP:ENGVAR – Nothing is really broken. Although the use of New York to mean the state seems to be more prevalent in the United States than in the rest of the world, the arguments above apply equally in any variant of English.
• WP:IAR – We are not slaves to primary topic, and can ignore it when necessary. The arguments above show that ignoring policy and guidelines is neither necessary nor desirable in this case.
• WP:NOCONSENSUS – This proposal should fail because there is no consensus for it. This is a circular argument. Deciding consensus is a matter for the closer, not for the supporters and opponents of a proposal which is still being discussed. Consensus can change.