User:Trafford09/aardvark

{{wip}}

• I'll remove the above {{wip}} template later, once I've finished creating this page. Then I'll be happy for another editor (he knows who he is - I'll assume it's the current reader & refer to him as 'you') - to add any comments they see fit. When that occasion arises, please exercise wp:cool, and add your comments at the end if you would, so that we organise our discussion. Meanwhile, thank you for your patience.

• (As for any other editors who stumble upon this page well, as for my part, if you wish to email me your thoughts - however candid or controversial - feel free. I can't say I'll reply by email, as I value my privacy. However, any reply I make on WP will be discreet and respectful.)

Ts and Cs

• Why 'aardvark'?

Because it's unique, and starts with 'A'. No other reason.

• Signing:

I'll sign this current edit, but I'm not signing for each & every edit - too tedious. Trafford09 (talk) 11:23, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

• Purpose of this page:

To serve as 'neutral ground', in a discussion with another editor.

This has benefits over using either of our usual talk pages, as:

1. It's not washing dirty laundry in public;
2. It may encourage rational debate & discourage point-scoring;
3. Some common ground we share is that we want to welcome new WP users, and it seems to me that new users don't want their first experiences to include seeing public spats;
4. It lessens the chances of the matter escalating, which would prove more time-consuming for both parties (at least one of whom apparently has forthcoming exams);
5. It affords the use of inter-section headers;
6. A serious accusation merits a thoughtful, detailed & non-rushed response.

Issues

You (as I say - you know who you are) have raised certain issues, and I hope to comment on them all. The issues I take from your comments to date are:

1. my motivation
2. my status
3. my alleged harassment
4. we are all equal.
5. on Wikipedia, we are all here to make the information on here as useful, concrete, and concise as possible.
6. taking pride

Motivation

My motives on WP are no different to most other editors' - namely, to improve the encyclopedia, in the fashion agreed by wp:consensus. I think you share these ideals too, in that you work on improving a project, and like to welcome new users - again, common ground between us.

But we all achieve this differently, as we see fit. In my case, I don't actively seek confrontation, but nor do I shirk it. I don't go looking for trouble. Don't get me wrong - I'm not for a minute saying that you do either. But you may think I go in search of editors to warn. This isn't the case. What happens is, firstly I keep an eye on my wp:watchlist of articles which interest me - like most people, I guess, including yourself? As I edit a page, that page of course gets added automatically to my growing watchlist (currently some 900 pages, excluding talk pages). This increase my 'workload', but it's a job I undertake as a willing volunteer. I reduce the work by de-watching any page with >30 watchers.

Now, there are by-products of this, of course - some useful & some time-consuming.

1. When I come across a new user, I like to welcome them, using wp:Twinkle. Twinkle has about 30 welcome messages, and the welcome I pick is hopefully the most appropriate to use. However, this user is then automatically added to my watchlist - no bad thing, as I take some responsibility for their early steps. I don't keep track of what they do, but if say their talk page is updated, that shows up on my watchlist.
2. When I see a chance to assist any editor, I generally take it. Usually it's well-received. (Please see my archives.) But I'd be naive to think I could 'win 'em all'. Sometimes, unfortunately, that 'assistance' is in the form of a standard, polite Twinkle (TW) warning template. There's no point my reinventing the wheel, when TW does it all for you. I say 'unfortunately', as giving such info. - however helpful it's designed to be - takes my time. Added to which, that editor's talk page is then auto-added to my watchlist - again increasing one's workload. But if we want to see WP improved, we owe WP that much, I feel.

Life would be so much simpler - and more enjoyable (leaving time solely for article-improvement) - if one didn't see the need to issue warnings, but sadly I accept that - however unsavoury the possible outcome - it's part of being a responsible Wikipedian. Just as I've needed assistance in the past - although I may not always have realised it, asked for it nor at the time appreciated it - so it falls on me to assist others. I see that you too take this duty on at times.

Now, some may think one should simply 'offer assistance', then walk away. That's a good idea for the 'easy life', and if another editor has less time & inclination than me, that's a decision for them. As for me, if an editor ignores the advice or consensus, I choose the harder life - seeking to follow up my advice until I get some reaction. Often the reaction is immediately positive. Not always so - but that 'comes with the territory'. I don't shirk it. Best to strive to be calm & philosophical, I feel. My persistence usually pays off, and I currently have reasonable time to devote to WP.

You've expressed the view that my conduct with you in particular amounts to harassment. I think you're being harsh - for various reasons. But I'll return to that a bit later.

Equal Status

You point out, quite correctly, that we're all equal. I've never said I'm not. We can all learn from each other, in WP as in life generally. I suppose even admins. (which of course we're not) aren't per se above us, either. In fact, the onus is even more on them to follow consensus, I suppose.

Shared aims

I support your statement that "This is the internet and this is Wikipedia, we are all here to make the information on here as useful, concrete, and concise as possible.". Fine, but let's all go the extra mile - let's do things per consensus.

Conduct

You've expressed the view that my conduct with you in particular amounts to harassment. I think you're being harsh - for various reasons. May I explain my standpoint:

I think you might agree that until this September you made many WP contributions, but few were to talk pages, and few had edit summaries (ESs).

When you edited an article on my watchlist, without ES, I left you the standard, polite TW reminder. I noted that another editor had previously (in March 2009) alerted you to ESs, to no apparent avail. Then, 9 days after my own alert, your talk page (now automatically on my watch list) was changed & that flagged up on my radar. I checked it, & you'd not responded to the alert. You'd neither commented on it, nor started using ESs. In fact, in view of your above edit history on talk pages, there was no proof you even read your talk page - far less that my assuming continued wp:AGF would yield results.

I admit I then tried to get a reaction from you. Your response wasn't positive. I sought to explain my case on your talk page, asking you questions; you never responded.

Never daunted, I continued to drop hints, seeking a change. Not much change came, except one usage of the minor flag, in your October edits.

On Nov. 21, I sent an alert for November.

Now, I must admit I left little time - only 5 days - before judging that another alert was needed. If on that occasion I judged you prematurely, my apologies, but I hope you can see my viewpoint & perceived justification.

Note that you could have avoided matters escalating, at any stage, by being prepared to discuss the issue (as I'm sure a prospective lawyer is well able).

An ironic thing now is that in some of your welcome templates you're using to kindly welcome new users, the template makes a point of raising the matter of ESs. Life can be strange, can't it!

I always try to make my conduct constructive and respectful. We all fail sometimes - such also is life. I'd like to think most people can see that my aims - however they may appear - are practically always well-intentioned. If you can begin to see that, I won't pretend to be displeased.

Taking pride

It's to be hoped that ideally every editor takes justified pride - we can and do share pride on joining projects, welcoming new users, and improving articles. It's just to be hoped that we do our best to follow guidelines & etiquette along the way. Not always possible, but we can all improve I'm sure, with common aims.

Overall

We should be on the same side, here on WP. We both want to see WP extended, improved and quality not lessened. There's no lasting reason why we should oppose each other. And yet we may be different animals. Maybe we can agree to best avoid unnecessary contact, by both making more effort to follow WP guidelines.

Unfinished

Please add comments only when I've finished - at which point I'll remove the {{wip}} tag & let you know on your talk page, inviting you to add any comments here, at that juncture. Meanwhile, thank you for your patience.

Enough from me

(At last - something you can heartily agree with!). Over to you, if you care to add any comments. Or not - as & when you care.

Happy editing & exams (I don't envy you the latter). Regards, Trafford09 (talk) 16:25, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

In Response

This feels like quite a while ago, so at this point, I'm just going to let it pass. To cross path's again in the future.

Yes, it does seem a long time ago - no problem. Should our paths cross again, I hope it may be incidental & calm.

May I say that I was impressed that you raised the wp:ER - a step I've not had courage to do myself at this stage.

Anyway, "pax vobiscum" - as I believe they say. Trafford09 (talk) 09:06, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Afterthought: in case you wish, at a later juncture, to discuss past issues or raise any new ones, or query my actions (past or future), you are more than welcome to do so here, if you prefer - it's on my watchlist. Obviously 'my' talk page too is equally available.

And if you'd ever like me to delete the contents of this page, that's fine - in fact I've no objection if you preferred at such time, to blank this page yourself.

Bye for now, Trafford09 (talk) 13:00, 23 December 2010 (UTC)