User talk:Al Ameer son/Archive 25

Taniyus Shahin

Hey buddy I think I found something. I will scan through and get back to you. I hope there's more detail in this one. How's your French btw? ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 14:34, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

@Elie plus: Thanks. I'm illiterate in French, but we'll make it work. Email me whatever you have. --Al Ameer (talk) 18:49, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

I have a number of notes, I won't post them on the talk page in order not to affect the GA nomination.

• In the first paragraph of the 'Civil war in Mount Lebanon' section you wrote: "In late May, Shahin and some 300 of his men entered the village of Naccache from Rayfoun to seize silk owned by a noble family of Keserwan. However, instead of returning to Rayfoun, they proceeded to enter the village of (1) Antelias in the al-Sahil district adjacent to Beirut. Shahin's entrance into Antelias was considered a provocation by the Druze who feared that the presence of the Keserwani fighters threatened the Druze residents of the nearby mixed Druze-Maronite Metn district. Many Christians in turn viewed the deployment of Khurshid Pasha's troops to the Keserwani village of Hazmiyeh on 26 May as a provocation because they suspected Khurshid of being allied with the Druze. Shahin's stated purpose was to protect the Christian Shihab emirs based in the village of Baabda (near Antelias)."
  

Being a local something struck me as odd so I reviewed 'Fawaz' and I'd like to correct the passages underlined above. Antelias is a village in the Metn district. Baabda and Hazmieh are two adjacent villages that fall in what was called the Sahil district (now called Baabda district). I will wait for you reply to proceed with the changes. I will let you know of anything else that needs fixing. -~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 15:22, 1 January 2016 (UTC) Please ping me when you get this and if you don't mind I would like to exchange contacts via mail so we can freely communicate without delays. -~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 15:24, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

I'd rewrite it like this. Between March and May 1860, several retaliatory tit-for-tat killings and attacks of sectarian nature between Druzes and Christians had been occurring throughout Mount Lebanon and its immediate environs. In late May, Shahin and some 300 of his men entered the village of Naccache in the Metn districtfrom Rayfoun to seize silk owned by a noble family of Keserwan. However, instead of returning to Rayfoun, they proceeded to enter the nearby village of Antelias in the al-Sahil district adjacent to Beirut. Shahin's incursion into Antelias was considered a provocation by the Druze who feared that the presence of the Keserwani fighters threatened the Druze residents of the nearby mixed Druze-Maronite Metn district. Many Christians in turn viewed the deployment of Khurshid Pasha's troops in the Keserwani village of Hazmiyeh on 26 May as a provocation because they suspected Khurshid of being allied with the Druze and that this was the signal for the beginning of the Druze counter-attack. I couldn't find the source of the following passage though >>> Shahin's stated purpose was to protect the Christian Shihab emirs based in the village of Baabda (near Antelias).

Karam was never qaimaqam and it was the refusal of the Powers to appoint him because of his lack of tact that drove him into insurgency and subsequent exile. The article is fantastic! The book i was telling you about was translated from this onecontains a little more background and details about type of claims that the peasants made to the KHazens, they mention how the youth organized themselves into bands and appointed a "Sheikh Shabeb" for each. Before Tanios there was a previous sheikh shabeb from Ajaltoun called Salih Sfeir who was leading the peasant movement. Sfeir left command of the uprising when he foresaw the threat of violent deflagration. Salibi proceeds to describe the next leader of the revolution, a 43 years old illiterate demagogue who had nothing of note but his height and bulging muscles. I highly recommend the book, Salibi is objective and concise. The book does not mention the Karam-Shahin conflict. I will look for other sources. -~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 15:54, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

I'll buy this soon. Looks pretty critical of Shahin. -~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 17:39, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

@Elie plus: Thank you for your corrections (I just made the changes) and the picture. Your suggestions are always constructive and please don't hesitate to make any necessary edits/changes to the article, especially where you find inaccuracies. You can email me through the sidebar, but I'll email you shortly regardless.

To address some of your other points, the Hakim source in the article states that Karam was appointed the "acting" qaimaqam of the Christian areas of the mountain in the civil war's aftermath until administration of the mountain was reorganized, but yes, he never became the official qaimaqam. As for the peasant's uprising, when I was writing up the article I left out a decent amount of information about the uprising's early stage under Sfeir, because I thought it would take away too much focus from Shahin. However, now I think it might be best to add at least a sentence about this as long there's no separate article about the 1859 Keserwan peasants' revolt. I'll try to get hold of Salibi's work; he seems to have been frequently cited by the current sources in the article as well. And I'll take any reliable sources about the subject that you have, if possible. --Al Ameer (talk) 19:06, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Note: I just sent you an email, if you haven't received it let me know. Cheers and happy New Year by the way ;) --Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

And to you! I haven't received a mail from you yet. -~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 20:35, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

I like this book, it's so detailed. Check p.158 for the skirmish with Karam; too bad the pages that follow are not part of the preview. I will look it up at the bookstore. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 14:11, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

@Elie plus: Wow, thanks for pointing this out. I added the source to the article some time ago, but never explored it properly. I'll begin adding more from it shortly. --Al Ameer (talk) 22:28, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Reading through Makdisi's work, the source also appears to be valuable for the article about the 1860 war. --Al Ameer (talk) 00:04, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Shukri al-Quwatli

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Your GA nomination of Zahir al-Umar

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DYK for Ismail Pasha al-Azm

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DYK

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DYK for Naqib al-Ashraf Revolt

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DYK nomination of Ridwan Pasha

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Yeliz Topaloğlu

Hey there. I just promoted the DYK nomination for Yeliz Topaloğlu to prep, but it needed extensive copy editing. In the future, if a nomination is in need of an extensive copyright, please ask for a copyright and hold off on approving the hook until the article is ready for the main page. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 03:36, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

@The Squirrel Conspiracy: Noted, for the future ;) --Al Ameer (talk) 05:22, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

DYK nomination of An-Nasir Ahmad, Sultan of Egypt

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DYK for Ridwan Pasha

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Bashir

Please feel free to alter my additions to suit your writing style. I removed one passage mentioning Beit Ed Din as a capital. beit ed din was established by Bashir himself. I have to sleep now, i will continue later on. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 21:48, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks @Elie plus: Really appreciate the expansion, and the clarification about Beit ed-Din. I look forward to further additions. --Al Ameer (talk) 02:16, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Not to discourage you from the Mamluk article

But the naming convention here used in Wikipedia is wrong, they never used modern Turkish language, they used arabic desgnation and they used dynastic designation and to some extent an ethnic designation. I will get you an excellent Mamluk historian talking about it, once I go home, you will love it. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 20:55, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

@Alexis Ivanov: I didn't add the Turkish language name to the article, that was another user(s). I wasn't really sure about it either, so I didn't revert his/her edits. Nonetheless, I'd love more sources about the name if you have any. --Al Ameer (talk) 20:58, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Once I go home which I'm far away(in a library now) I will give it you, I promise you it is 100% legit, and you will love it, but I believe the place is a mess, in the name section of course, I brought it back in case you want to tidy it, I will also add some references properly and tidy it myself, I was thinking of a table, the problem with me was I was very interested in the Mamluk articles, my interest died out and I keep jumping from subject to subject, now I'm doing the Crimean Khanate and the Golden Horde. I will come back in the near future for the Mamluk articles but I will be here one more time for the name section. Also back then I had an idea for a template for Mamluk Sultans, listen we need a template/infobox for Mamluk Sulantate, including their ethnic background, and their master and lastly their status before being a Sultan Alexis Ivanov (talk) 21:05, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

@Alexis Ivanov: Thank you, I was just going to ask you to add the citations to each sentence in the Name section. That way when I tidy it up I won't remove anything I mistakenly thought was unsourced. I also like your idea about an informative template for the Mamluk sultans. I'm assuming it would look something like the page we have on the Ottoman sultans, which is pretty decent. The Mamluk topic area is a mess, and I really want to improve it because this was an important time period in the Middle East. So far, I've started some articles on the minor Bahri sultans and expanded the main Mamluk Sultanate article, but there's a lot more work to do. Any help is appreciated. I get side-tracked with other subjects too ;) --Al Ameer (talk) 21:17, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

I get sidetracked especially towards some Ottoman articles lately, I did tidy up some infobox for their battles and created some campaignbox, I want to do the same for Mamluk Sultanate. In the moment I am doing for the Crimean Khanate. Mamluk might me my next project. Also Professor Ian Mladlov has some resources on the Mamluk Genealogy and probably chronology from the University of Michigan, but the genealogy is very important we need a page for it, I love the idea of mixing it up with non-biological descent people, like Mamluks. This is his resource page, here is the genealogy. We definitely need a Mamuluk Family tree, also I saw the new map added to the page, I loved it, the Professor has a 1350 C.E. Map of the Mamluk in world perspective with detailed cities.

I will get you the sources, don't worry. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 21:26, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

I found it, I just realized we might have an issue in a way to cite this, I don't know the publisher or journal, it seems it is spanish or something, but the source is 100% authentic, because Koby Yosef is an excellent historian from Bar Illan University. Sign up and it's a free download. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 00:23, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

So signing up is necessary to have access to the information? There could be citation restrictions as well. --Muzammil (talk) 18:58, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

It is not that hard, they are not asking for money, many top historians and academics in various fields have an account there you can even chat up with them and talk and ask question, and they in the mean time upload some papers they have written. Therefore this restriction can be lifted. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 00:06, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Invitation

Hi there. I've been planning for a while now on starting an initiative in the MILHIST Incubator aimed at improving Wikipedia's coverage of Egyptian military history. I've come across many of your relevant contributions, some of which are quite impressive and were very needed in the encyclopaedia, like Peasants' revolt in Palestine and the more recent List of Mamluk sultans, among others. This made me think that you're just the person I needed to help me coordinate this project. So what say you? Are you interested?

There's also another thing: I wanted to expand the Ali Bey al-Kabir topic once I'm done with my RL college preoccupations. Do you happen to know of any helpful books or journals that I could use for that purpose? I've found a couple of books but they are very old, and I'm not sure if they can be used here. Given your work on Zahir al-Umar, I thought you'd be aware of something relevant. Regards. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 07:03, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

@Fitzcarmalan: Not sure yet as to how best coordinate such a project, but I'm certainly interested in improving that topic area. If you have some ideas, I'd like to hear them. As for Ali Bey al-Kabir, that article's been on my mind for some time, along with Abu al-Dhahab. The entire coverage of the Mamluks, both the sultanate and the Mamluks of Ottoman Egypt, is in need of drastic improvement and I look forward to your contributions in this area and to future collaboration. I have some sources about Ali Bey's alliance with Zahir and his early relationship with Jazzar Pasha, but I will look for more biographical sources and post them here. Cheers, --Al Ameer (talk) 19:25, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for replying. Here is the project page, if you're interested. Your feedback would be much appreciated.

And thanks again for considering my Ali Bey request. I'm currently in the middle of a difficult college year and my academic preoccupations seem to trump everything else. But I will be back in about four months, and maybe then we can work together on this topic. Cheers. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 18:33, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

@Fitzcarmalan: The framework looks good so far. I'll start listing some sources in the coming days or weeks, as well as numerous missing articles and we could divide those missing articles into general topic areas i.e. something like Pharoanic Egypt, Mamluk Egypt, Ottoman Egypt, etc. There should also be a tier for articles that need improvement. I'm currently caught up with the Mamluk Sultanate subject area, which is of course is a part of Egyptian military history, and the geography and pre-modern history of Lebanon. But whenever you're ready, we could start work on the Mamluks of Ottoman Egypt, such Ali Bey and others. Good luck with your studies. Regards, --Al Ameer (talk) 20:49, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Sounds like a plan; I had the same idea in mind for the missing articles section. I will definitely notify you when I'm ready, thanks, and will gather as much sources as I can in the meantime. Good luck with everything. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 20:03, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

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Your GA nomination of Tanyus Shahin

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DYK for Qawsun

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Some article suggestions

Hi Al Ameer son. I notice you claim to be a Muslim, so could you please put as much effort into creating articles on Sunni Muslim settlements in Lebanon as you appear to show towards Maronite settlements in Lebanon. Thanks bruv! 49.195.14.92 (talk) 13:21, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

@49.195.14.92: I don't edit on that basis bruv. My general topic area is the Arab world, especially the Levant, but the editing I do within that topic area is rather random and not based on a sectarian preference. I hope to work on articles about towns throughout Lebanon regardless of the inhabitants' religion, but I've concentrated on Mount Lebanon recently, whose inhabitants happen to be mostly Maronite and Druze. I don't appreciate the sentiments of your request—let's leave the backwardness of sectarianism to corrupt politicians, silly preachers and opportunistic warlords. Thank you. --Al Ameer (talk) 19:48, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Please forgive my backward sectarianism; i simply couldn't think of anything more important than one's religion. 49.180.160.51 (talk) 06:50, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

I don't have an issue with the importance of religion in one's life, my issue is with the sentiment: "Well you claim you're a Muslim, so why don't you write about Muslim subjects" or "you say you're a Muslim, but how come you're paying attention to non-Muslim subjects". That, to me, is sectarianism and sectarianism is backward. --Al Ameer (talk) 16:28, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

I understand that sectarianism can have negative connotations in some cases — and rightfully so — however, i don't think my request has any negative connotations. There is nothing wrong with a Muslim focusing on improving the knowledge of Muslim settlements in Lebanon. This is both good for Muslims (religiously and academically) and Wikipedia in general. There are plenty of Maronites who can add articles about their communities, so i see nothing wrong with a Muslim prioritizing the expansion of knowledge regarding Muslim subjects. Call it sound prioritizing — not sectarianism. 49.180.136.225 (talk) 02:43, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Yalbugha al-Umari, al-Mansur Muhammad, Sultan of Egypt, List of Mamluk sultans

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Hi

I hope I am not asking for too much these days. No one has given attention for Template:Did you know nominations/Battle of Karameh, would you mind reviewing it? Makeandtoss (talk) 19:57, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi again. I was wondering if you would know where would I find sources for Asad Ghanma article? I only found one single source for this guy through googling him in both Arabic and English ! Makeandtoss (talk) 15:16, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

@Makeandtoss: I haven't had any luck so far, other than the Jeremy Bowen source. Will keep you posted if I find anything. --Al Ameer (talk) 16:00, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

I have searched over and over, there is only the Bowen source which is really weird. I created a DYK for the article, I was hoping to find a source on him being Christian/receiving a medal.. Makeandtoss (talk) 22:00, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

@Makeandtoss: I'll keeping looking. Maybe there's alternative names we could search by: I tried Asad Ghanama, Asad Ghanmah and Asad Ghanamah, but still nothing. Do you know of other spelling variations? I'm surprised you've had no luck with Arabic sources. Al-Rai had a whole article about Radi Annab (See [1]). Maybe they have something on Ghanma? The DYK wouldn't qualify as of now because it needs to be 5x expanded (2x is only for articles on living persons I think) and the hook fact isn't sourced i.e. the Christian/medal of Bravery. --Al Ameer (talk) 22:26, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

I honestly found out about this guy through editing Battle of Karameh article, so I don't know about how his name is commonly spelled. Yeah I tried in Arabic spelling "اسعد غنما" --Makeandtoss (talk) 22:52, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

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Your GA nomination of Tanyus Shahin

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DYK for Yalbugha al-Umari

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DYK for Al-Mansur Muhammad, Sultan of Egypt

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