User talk:Al Ameer son/Archive 33

April 2021 WikiProject Military History Reviewing Drive

Hey y'all, the April 2021 WikiProject Military History Reviewing Drive begins at 00:01 UTC on April 1, 2021 and runs through 23:59 UTC on April 31, 2021. Points can be earned through reviewing articles on the AutoCheck report, reviewing articles listed at WP:MILHIST/ASSESS, reviewing MILHIST-tagged articles at WP:GAN or WP:FAC, and reviewing articles submitted at WP:MILHIST/ACR. Service awards and barnstars are given for set points thresholds, and the top three finishers will receive further awards. To participate, sign up at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_History/April 2021 Reviewing Drive#Participants and create a worklist at Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/April 2021 Reviewing Drive/Worklists (examples are given). Further details can be found at the drive page. Questions can be asked at the drive talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:22, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Fakhr al-Din II

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Fakhr al-Din II you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Cplakidas -- Cplakidas (talk) 07:40, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Discussion on the inclusion of Iraq in the 'Arab states of the Persian Gulf' article

Hi there @Al Ameer son! I saw that you're a member of Wikiproject Arab world so thought you might be interested in the discussion we're having in the ASPG article here: On the inclusion of Iraq in this article. The discussion is about whether the subject should include Iraq among the Gulf states (the Khaleej) or not. If you're interested you can join in the discussion. Regards — ♾️ Contemporary Nomad ^{(💬 Talk)} 00:04, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Junada ibn Abi Umayya al-Azdi

Hello Al Ammer. I'm translating Junada ibn Abi Umayya al-Azdi to Portuguese and I saw that "Conrad" does not have bibliography nor year. Would you mind providing it, please?--Renato de carvalho ferreira (talk) 02:12, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

@Renato de Carvalho Ferreira: as been added maybe can be seen again Iylaq (talk) 03:47, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

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Yazid I scheduled for TFA

This is to let you know that the above article has been scheduled as today's featured article for May 26, 2021. Please check that the article needs no amendments. A coordinator will draft a blurb - based on your draft if the TFA came via TFA requests, or for Featured Articles promoted recently from an existing blurb on the FAC talk page. Feel free to comment on this. We suggest that you watchlist Wikipedia:Main Page/Errors from the day before this appears on Main Page. Thanks and congratulations on your work. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:07, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Asking

Hello Al Ameer son, in the article Husayn ibn Numayr al-Sakuni mentioned that the Battle of Ayn al-Warda took place on January 6, 685 but in the article the Battle of Ayn al-Warda took place on January 4, 685, is the actual date not known with certainty? thank you Iylaq (talk) 05:37, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Rumahis ibn Abd al-Aziz

On 2 May 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Rumahis ibn Abd al-Aziz, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Rumahis ibn Abd al-Aziz, the governor of Palestine for Caliph Marwan II, escaped to Islamic Spain where he became governor of Algeciras and Sidonia? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Rumahis ibn Abd al-Aziz. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Rumahis ibn Abd al-Aziz), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

—valereee (talk) 00:02, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

The 1860 Damascus massacre

Dear Al Ameer Son,

Me and a fellow student have added some information to the 1860 Damascus Massacre page you had set up. I have published a section on the Aftermath in my sandbox, and will start working on the second and third day of the crisis this afternoon. For a class, we have to have put it online next Friday. Would you be okay with publishing your part already so that we could add our edits into it or that we publish your part?

I look forward to hearing from you, Thomas Stein

Request your support in publishing our official page

Hi Al Ameer, I request your support and help in creating an official Wikipedia page for our organization/brand. We were a group of companies with our own sister companies and software products to showcase. I want your complete support in creating and publishing the page. Kindly do the needful.183.82.206.134 (talk) 06:10, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Clan vs family

I was just wondering; shouldn't articles like Nashashibi clan, al-Husayni clan etc, be moved to Nashashibi family, al-Husayni family etc? "Clan" sort of sounds pre-20th century to my ears; what do you think? Huldra (talk) 23:19, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

@Huldra: Thinking back all those years I’m not sure why I chose “clan”. I agree that “family” is more appropriate and probably more common in the sources.

On another note, I have not forgotten emir Salar! Will finish it as soon as return to wp—sorry for the delay. —Al Ameer (talk) 01:03, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

No worries; I moved them (hope you don't mind!); also: looking forward to the Salar article; Huldra (talk) 22:22, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Category:16th-century Arab people has been nominated for renaming

Category:16th-century Arab people has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. BenKuykendall (talk) 22:44, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

about Zufar's article

Hi Al Ameer son, sorry to bother me I want to ask about the article Zufar ibn al-Harith al-Kilabi. Zufar's father in the article is named al-Harith ibn Yazid al-Amiri why not al-Harith ibn Yazid al-Kilabi like his son's name? sorry I'm confused about this. Thank you Iylaq (talk) 10:19, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

FÜSUN TÜLEK

FÜSUN TÜLEK --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:57, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia Wars and the Israel-Palestine conflict...please fill out my survey?

Hello :) I am writing my MA dissertation on Wikipedia Wars and the Israel-Palestine conflict, and I noticed that you have contributed to those pages. I will be looking at the process of collaborative knowledge production on the Israel-Palestine conflict, and the effect it has on bias in the articles. This will involve understanding the profiles and motivations of editors, contention/controversy and dispute resolution in the talk pages, and bias in the final article.

For more information, you can check out my [meta-wiki research page], where I will be posting my findings when I am done.

I would greatly appreciate if you could take 5 minutes to fill out this quick survey before 8 AUGUST 2021!

Thanks so much,

Sarabnas (talk) 19:00, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

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Original source for Ottoman Safed?

Obviously the secondary source needs keeping but perhaps you would like to comment at:

Template:Did you know nominations/Safad El Battikh, Kafra, Lebanon and Ayta al-Jabal Chidgk1 (talk) 09:32, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Dangling ref

Hi Al Ameer, I have been working on fixing dangling references that have no corresponding sources, and it appears you added a ref to Al-Ashdaq in this edit. Do you know the source? For now, I have hidden the ref. Let me know if you need any assistance if you do know the source! - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 08:26, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing this! Much appreciated. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 22:46, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan.

This is to let you know that the above article has been scheduled as today's featured article for September 4, 2021. Please check the article needs no amendments. If you're interested in editing the main page text, you're welcome to do so at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/September 4, 2021. Congratulations on your work!—Wehwalt (talk) 00:55, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Old copyright violations

Hello. My name is Moneytrees and I am a Wikipedia administrator specializing in copyright. I am coming to you with concerns of copyright violations in your older edits. A few weeks ago I noticed that most of Mansouri Great Mosque was copied from https://web.archive.org/web/20090106085305/http://archnet.org/library/sites/one-site.jsp?site_id=2489 . The article was blanked and listed at Wikipedia:Copyright problems/2021 July 28, and the content was removed. You added the content in this July 2009 edit. Looking further, I note content you added in 2008 to Lajjun was removed in 2011 by Moonriddengirl as a copyvio of the cited source. Doing a brief glance through your edits at the time, I removed content from Al-Aqsa Mosque copied from https://wayback.archive-it.org/all/20071225141527/http://www.archnet.org/library/pubdownloader/pdf/9702/doc/DPC1569.pdf (beware auto download...) that you added in this July 2009 edit. I also saw that Nur al-Din Madrasa, created by you in March 2009‎, was blanked and had copyvio removed in 2014. However, you created the article with the edit summary "starting revised version of Zozo2kx's original article"; I am aware that Zozo2kx had issues with copyright, which have been now mostly addressed.

It doesn't seem you have had any issues with copyright violations for a while; however, it appears that there are some old copyright violations hanging around, and they should be cleaned up. I will likely need to file a Contributor copyright investigation to accomplish this cleanup. I would like to know if you insight on the time period in which the copyright violations occurred in, and also if the copyright violations were a product of your collaborations with Zozo2kx. If you could give me any other information assisting in my investigation, that would be very helpful. I do not mean to prosecute you in any way, I would simply like some advice on cleaning up the violations. Thanks, Moneytrees🏝️^{Talk/CCI guide} 20:54, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

@Moneytrees: Not sure if I could help you much. Never recalled copying and pasting material and am pretty careful to avoid close paraphrasing, though I cannot discount that I was less careful when I first started some 12 or so years ago. In any case, I would of course welcome any such clean up if further incidents were detected from that time period. Al Ameer (talk) 04:09, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Have no source

Hello Al Ameer son, sorry to interrupt in the articles Shimr, Utba ibn Abi Sufyan and Junada ibn Abi Umayya al-Azdi, no source. Maybe you can see the history again except for the Shimr article because the revision has been returned. Do you have the source? Thank you Iylaq (talk) 06:08, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

@Iylaq: Thank you for pointing these out, the books have been added to the articles now and tags removed. Al Ameer (talk) 04:40, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

@Al Ameer son: Ok you are welcome Iylaq (talk) 13:52, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Fakhr al-Din II

The article Fakhr al-Din II you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Fakhr al-Din II for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Ganesha811 -- Ganesha811 (talk) 05:01, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Wikiproject Military history coordinator election nominations open

Nominations for the upcoming project coordinator election are now open. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 UTC on 14 September! Voting doesn't commence until 15 September. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the coord team. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:58, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Mu'awiya I

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Mu'awiya I you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Luxtaythe2nd -- Luxtaythe2nd (talk) 11:40, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

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Help needed

Hello, Al Ameer son, nice to meet you! I'm hoping you can help with a problem at the article Avichay Adraee. I just semi-protected the article per a request at RfPP. Part of the complaint was that users were adding BLP violations in Arabic. Could you take a look and see if anything there needs to be revdel'ed? Thanks! -- MelanieN (talk) 23:56, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Mulhim Ma'n

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Wikiproject Military history coordinator election nomination period closing soon

Nominations for the upcoming project coordinator election are still open, but not for long. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 UTC on 14 September! No further nominations will be accepted after that time. Voting will commence on 15 September. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the current coord team. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:42, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Mulhim Ma'n

The article Mulhim Ma'n you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Mulhim Ma'n for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of The Rambling Man -- The Rambling Man (talk) 09:01, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Mulhim Ma'n

The article Mulhim Ma'n you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Mulhim Ma'n for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of The Rambling Man -- The Rambling Man (talk) 09:41, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Al Aqsa Martyr's Brigade terrorist designation/Zakaria Zubeidi article

Noted you flagged the terrorist designation of the Al Aqsa Martyr's Brigade as "POV" despite the multiple international references citing as much. The terrorist designation by multiple countries is also stated on the Wikipedia page specific to the group (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Aqsa_Martyrs%27_Brigades). This article both discusses the group's multiple terrorist attacks, its terrorist designation by multiple countries, and notes Zakaria Zubeidi's involvement as a local commander. The article is well-referenced. Providing the link to Wikipedia's NPOV policy here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view.

If you still feel the designation meets criteria for "point of view" despite the citations happy to discuss further.AVR2012 (talk) 04:18, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history coordinator election voting has commenced

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Your GA nomination of Mu'awiya I

The article Mu'awiya I you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Mu'awiya I for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Luxtaythe2nd -- Luxtaythe2nd (talk) 17:20, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

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Your GA nomination of Mu'awiya I

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Wikiproject Military history coordinator election voting period closing soon

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Sidon Eyalet revolt (1834)

Hello, Al Ameer son,

I deleted the PROD for Sidon Eyalet revolt (1834) which you tagged for deletion and was able to remove some references to this non-event that appeared in other articles. But I was hoping you could review Template:Campaignbox Syrian Peasant Revolt (1834–35) and Syrian Peasant Revolt (1834–1835) in case there are more inaccuracies in these pages. I am not familiar with Middle Eastern history and don't wish to attempt more serious content deletion. Thank you for any help you can offer. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:01, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

@Liz: Note that Syrian Peasant Revolt (1834–1835) was written by the same editor as the deleted article and also separates out the Sidon revolt as a separate topic in the same way. I know nothing of this topic, but if Sidon Eyalet revolt (1834) was correctly deleted then this one should be as well. There is also Alawite revolt (1834–1835) also by the same editor and also separated out in exactly the same way. I was thinking of deprodding Sidon Eyalet revolt (1834) purely on the basis that it is a complex enough issue that a more detailed and careful discussion at AFD should take place. I didn't in the end bacause the nom seemed to be right about the misuse of sources. But still, this whole group of articles might be better off at AFD. SpinningSpark 09:39, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

@Liz:@Spinningspark: I will take a deeper look into Syrian Peasant Revolt (1834–1835) though there's a good chance it too will hit the chopping block. Although the peasant-led rebellions against the Egyptian authorities in Syria (read: Levant) were driven by similar grievances over conscription, disarmament, taxation, etc, there was no relationship between the revolt in the Alawite mountains of northern Syria (1834-1835) and Palestine (1834). Therefore, unless there's RS that discuss these two revolts as part of a singular "Syrian Peasant Revolt", or the like, in that specific range of time (1834–35), the article would fall under wp:synth and wp:original research and that would be the basis for any future deletion request. On the other hand, there may be a basis for an article on these same revolts and those carried out by other peasant groups in Egyptian Syria that could be titled "Peasant revolts in Syria (1834–1838)", but again there must be a basis in the RS for this as well. Al Ameer (talk) 18:28, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

Hello!

Hello! I want to know the reason why did you remove my edit from Marwan l Artical.Please read the edit summary i made when i removed Thanks. James Bond7350 (talk) 18:13, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

?? James Bond7350 (talk) 15:19, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

@James Bond7350: The reasoning does not make sense and no secondary reliable source has been presented anywhere to back your claim. Besides the fact that Marwan being classified as one of the sahaba is disputed or at least depending on how sahaba are defined, every caliph that came after Muawiya was also not a sahaba and most if not all carried the standard title of Amir al-Muminin. —Al Ameer (talk) 15:38, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Oh! Okay that was my mistake. James Bond7350 (talk) 15:45, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Welcome to the Months of African Cinema Global Contest!

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The AfroCine Project core team is happy to inform you that the Months of African Cinema Contest is happening again this year in October and November. We invite Wikipedians all over the world to join in improving content related to African cinema on Wikipedia!

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Inviting you to discussion

Hey Al Ameer Son, or shall i say Bin Al Ameer :).

There is a discussion going on in the “Levantine Arabic” article and i tagged you for your input. Unfortunately, i dont believe the tagging worked. So i came here on your discussion board to inform you to please come join this as you have contributed to this article in the past. Somethings are being proposed to be removed/changed which i oppose. All the statements have been logged there. Please read it thoroughly and provide input. Again, this is the talk section on the “Levantine Arabic”article.

Greetings Bin Al Ameer WatanWatan2020 (talk) 14:37, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Ibn Bahdal

is it not mentioned in the sources that Ibn Bahdal was a narrator of hadith or a scholar, and does his father, Malik ibn Bahdal not have his biography? and was Ibn Bahdal a Muslim or a Christian? and did Ibn Bahdal have any descendants? thank you. (I'm asking because I'm confused so forgive me 🙏) Iylaq (talk) 12:16, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

@Iylaq: Please excuse the late reply. I do not have information, to my recollection, as to whether Ibn Bahdal was a narrator of traditions. I believe there are quotes attributed to him in al-Tabari and al-Baladhuri. I do not believe he was a scholar. Same for his father. As to their religion, Ibn Bahdal was almost certainly a Muslim, though his grandfather Bahdal ibn Unayf appears to have remained a Christian until his death. One or all of Ibn Bahdal's paternal aunts may have also retained their Christianity. I have nothing on his father Malik. --Al Ameer (talk) 22:38, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

@Al Ameer son: well no problem regarding the delay. I also want to ask

1. did Ibn Bahdal have any descendants? in the book Siyar A'lam al-Nubala by al-Dhahabi it is stated that Ibn Bahdal had the "kunya" (nickname) of Abu Sulayman. does this indicate that he has a son named Sulayman. and did historians not mention about this matter? [1]

• @Iylaq: This seems to happen a lot, whereby an early Muslim figure has a kunya recorded in the literature, but the literature otherwise does not mention a son by the same name. Could be the son was not notable, died young, or it was just an honorific name. Unless there is explicit mention of a son, I would not use the kunya as evidence on wikipedia. Al Ameer (talk) 20:12, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

2. So in conclusion, figures from Banu Kalb who were loyal to the Umayyad government such as Sufyan ibn al-Abrad al-Kalbi, his brother Zuhayr ibn al-Abrad, cousin of Ibn Bahdal Humayd ibn Hurayth ibn Bahdal, brother of Ibn Bahdal Sa'id ibn Malik ibn Bahdal and so on. Are they also Muslims? thank you Iylaq (talk) 00:42, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

• Again, presumably, but I do not think we could categorize them here as one religion or another without support from reliable sources. Al Ameer (talk) 20:12, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

@Al Ameer son: 3. Humayd ibn Hurayth ibn Bahdal, cousin of Ibn Bahdal, does the source not mention his biography in the Battle of Maskin? or do sources mention his presence in the Siege of Mecca (692)? or do sources mention his presence in suppressing the rebellion of Abd al-Rahman ibn Muhammad ibn al-Ash'ath? and if sources do not mention Humayd's presence in the above battle does that mean he was active in fighting the Qays group or did Humayd abstain from political activities?

• I understand he was part of an embassy sent by Abd al-Malik to Byzantium, but this may have preceded those battles. Al Ameer (talk) 20:12, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

4. did Humayd ibn Hurayth have descendants and did Sa'id ibn Malik ibn Bahdal's brother have descendants? Iylaq (talk) 05:27, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

• From Crone 1980, p. 94:

  The family [of Bahdal] disappeared almost completely in the Marwanid period. It made a brief reappearance in the third civil war when Khalid b. 'Uthman b. Sa'id b. Bahdal fought against the Yamaniyya as the head of Walid I's shurta (ibid., p. 1803; Ibn al-Kalbi, Gamhara, s.v. 'Halid b. 'Utman'), while an unnamed member of the family fought on the other side as a Yemeni commander who was sent to reinforce the Syrians in Iraq in 13 2 (Tabari, ser. iii, p. 19). It reappeared again in the reign of Harun [al-Rashid] when 'Asim b. Muhammad b. Bahdal al-Kalbi emerged as the leader of the Yemenis in the factionalism between Qays and Yemen in Damascus (Ibn 'Asakir, Tahdhlb, vol. vii, pp. 129Q.

  Al Ameer (talk) 20:12, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

@Al Ameer son: Okay, thank you. and I have 2 more questions, does the source not explain the reason why Ibn Bahdal said Ibn al-Zubayr "munafiq"? did Ibn Bahdal not know of Ibn al-Zubayr's status as a companion of the Prophet? or because he had never met Ibn al-Zubayr? and the second question does the source not mention the location of Ibn Bahdal's death and tomb? Iylaq (talk) 04:03, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Rashidun army article

Assalamu 'Alaikum need your attention for recent quality assessment for Rashidun army article. it has been improved much recently Ahendra (talk) 13:32, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Bakhit -thesis

Hi, I see that you added some very interesting info from a thesis by Bakhit to the Faitroun-article.

Is there more info in that thesis which we might "mine"? Do you have it available? (Heh, not that I am running out of work; but "actionable" books about Lebanon is always interesting), cheers, Huldra (talk) 23:58, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

@Huldra: Please accept my apologies for the delayed response. I have the thesis and I could email it to you, but I do not see the option to do so on your user page. Perhaps you could email me and I could respond with the attachment. In any case, for "lack of space" Bakhit unfortunately limited these village-by-village population stats to only four nahiyas in the Damascus Liwa (sanjak): the Ghawta, the Kisrawan, Jizzin and Banu Malik al-Ashraf (in the Hauran). These are located in the appendixes of the thesis, pp. 272–280. The work itself contains a lot of useful information on the history and administration of the Damascus region, as well as Lebanon and to a lesser extent Palestine, mainly the Galilee area. Al Ameer (talk) 22:32, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

@Huldra: Sent. Al Ameer (talk) 22:46, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Caliphate Navy article

@Al Ameer son: Assalamu Alaykum, probably i need to ask ur assistance for this article: Early Caliphate navy Ahendra (talk) 20:41, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

@Ahendra: Aleikum as salam. Both the army and navy articles appear quite extensive. I applaud you for the effort, though for me to properly assist I would need to spend a fair amount of time reading the article closely and going through the sources. I have been quite busy outside of WP recently so unfortunately I will not be able to help much right now. In my time editing the early Muslim history topic area, I have tried taking a stab or two at the armed formations of the early caliphs but this is a complicated topic and should be treated with care, relying almost entirely on the modern, scholarly, secondary sources. I do have a draft for the armies of the Umayyad Caliphate, if you would like to take a look: User:Al Ameer son/Umayyad army. In the meantime, you may want to reach out to AhmadLX and Cplakidas. I understand their time is also stretched pretty thin, but they may have an idea on how best to approach this complex topic. Regards, Al Ameer (talk) 22:21, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Na'am sire, i didnt meant to rush u for such assistance. i mean if u have spare time and did not mind it. sure, i try to reach others who active on early Islam history for further assistance. anyway, good work sire for the efforts to improvements of Muawiya article. i merely looking for good works in WP Ahendra (talk) 22:29, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Anyway, i think i nterested look ur drafts of Umayyad Army, as it umayyad military more or less have very close relationship with Rashidun military. (edit) input: i think there are very good materials from Hasan Khalilieh regarding Umayyad caliphate coastal defense if you looking for good references Ahendra here:coastal defense (talk) 22:29, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

@Ahendra: since I was pinged here, my two cents: the article is a truly enormous effort, but also very indiscriminate in its coverage and hastily put together. It contains a lot of material that is tangential or irrelevant to the topic (the wars in Central Asia, Iberia and India, for example had very little to do with naval warfare, trade and correspondence in the Indian ocean is not the same as naval activity, not every port city captured by the caliphate is necessarily a naval base, etc.), and relies on a lot of sources that are far from WP:RS (Newell 2020, which is extensively used, for example takes medieval chronicles reporting semi-fictional stories at face value, leaving aside the obvious POV issues like claims that 'In all these battles not a single Muslim was killed or drowned'). The referencing is also a jumble of styles and references, and often lacks page numbers.

In terms of factual accuracy, there is a tendency to jumble things together from pre-Islamic times, Sassanian times, and later (9th century). It is by no means a given that if a ship type was used in pre-Islamic times, or in the 9th century, it would also be used in the 7th-8th centuries, which is the ostensible focus of this article. Likewise, pre-Islamic Arabs using boats for piracy is not the same as the skills needed for a fully-fledged navy. At the very least, such info should be presented with caveats, and properly placed in context. There are also a lot of outright errors, either from translation, or from WP:OR interpretation: the Sasanian Abna, for example, are called 'marines' just because they were transported to Yemen on ships. They were not. The 'Coastal campaign of Hind' refers mostly to campaigns that took place at several dozens if not hundreds of kilometers distance from the sea. 'between Tripoli and protoplasm' what? 'As the Muslim mariners approached Ruad garrison' soldiers being transported by sea are not necessarily 'mariners', and the 120000 troops that besieged Constantinople in 717 (leaving aside the accuracy of the implausibly high number, which is nowhere challenged here) were not naval troops, but land forces that went overland. There are several such errors strewn across the article.

Most importantly, however, the article badly in need of a thorough copyediting for correct English and even more it needs a clearer structure. I know much of the history this is supposed to cover, and have enormous trouble following it. For an uninitiated reader, I fear this is unreadable. For example, what is the section 'Naval Legacy to successor states' supposed to be about? What has it to do with navies? What happened after 680 and until 743, the final date mentioned in the infobox? Why was 743 added in the infobox? What does it represent? What do clashes with the Vikings in 844 have to do in the article when the cut-off date is 743? Where is the Byzantine reaction to the Muslim fleet activities? What is the wider political context of Muslim operations in the Mediterranean? A reader should not be left to guess or follow links. Constantine ✍ 23:20, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

noted , i will try to rework those points after i clean some broken links first Ahendra (talk) 00:03, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

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Battles of Madhar and Harura

@Al Ameer son: In the article on the Battles of Madhar and Harura, does the source not mention the participation of Ubayd Allah ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib? (son of Ali ibn Abi Talib) and is it also not mentioned the participation of Amr ibn al-Hajjaj al-Zubaydi? (who according to the narration of Amr took part in Battle of Karbala) and is it also not mentioned participation of Muslim ibn Amr al-Bahili? (father Qutayba ibn Muslim)Iylaq (talk) 10:52, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

• means Amr ibn al-Hajjaj participated in the Battle of Karbala against Husayn ibn Ali
  • I provide a red link so that if you have a complete reference you can make an article, if the reference is not complete, you are welcome to look for it first Iylaq (talk) 10:52, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

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