User talk:Briilcrockett/A Sojourn in the City of Amalgamation, in the Year of Our Lord, 19--

Notes

I try, you know? It's down 5 pages from what it was... RavenaWolf (talk) 14:12, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

I would have somebody who is not Raven take a turn at the plot summary to see if you can tighten up the prose to cut it back a bit and remove some more content. I think you might want to aim for something roughly HALF the length of the current summary. (Nick) --Uncannydazzler (talk) 13:24, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

This is starting to shape up nicely, and your efforts here are quite visible. Some things to consider at this point: 1) I would take the very robust plot summary you have now and consider how to condense it. I am not sure a chapter-by-chapter outline is the best option here with so many chapters in play (and the weird order of them). Can you break the story into a few key moves that will allow you to summarize it more succinctly? 2) You need to start editing your prose carefully and double-checking your formatting to make sure that the article is consistent. 3) Have you thought about how you will implement the sources and currently existing material on the stub page when you migrate? (Nick) --Uncannydazzler (talk) 10:53, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

You also need to clean up your references/sources throughout, and should be able to cite/use a few other sources as well. (Nick) --Uncannydazzler (talk) 10:54, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Having looked over the current A Sojourn in the City of Amalgamation page, I'm certain we've got our work cut out for us. Currently, there's only the faintest idea of a plot description without any surrounding information. That said, it looks like we'll be building from the ground up on this, and that's just fine. I'm looking forward to getting to work with everyone. The sources are also minimal. It looks like the book itself was the only basis for the article, so we'll have to track down our own.

Bbelliott1875 (talk) 21:08, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Do we cite MLA or what? I've never done this kind of stuff before. Even though I've read through all of the training, the actual practice is weird. Also,with so little sources to pull from, I don't know how to go about implimenting them. RavenaWolf (talk) 18:41, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

Ben's bibliography

Sources: An online edition of the work itself- https://archive.org/details/sojournincityofa00bolo/page/n4 An article on the role of the olfactory in literature- https://brevitymag.com/craft-essays/the-art-of-literary-olfaction-or-do-you-smell-that/ A scholarly article on racial preference- www.jstor.org/stable/30041976. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bbelliott1875 (talk • contribs) 00:25, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

Elizabeth's Sources:

MLA format for the work: RavenaWolf (talk) 18:41, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

Draft Talk

First Changes

I put in the first two chapters of the summary today. I also tweeked some of the references for them to match. There is a list building because of the page numbers corresponding with the quote in the text and summary. Feel free to change anything that doesn't look right. I'm not attached, per se, to anything in particular. RavenaWolf (talk) 16:13, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

Peer Review

I made several comments following the official peer review checklist. You guys are off to a good start. I think it has the bones of a great article, now it just needs to be fleshed out. ((User:Sfarmer33))

Notes (10/24)

I have the following notes:

• The synopsis section needs to be reduced - it's far too long. I can help with this.

• There is a lot of original research here. Keep in mind that we can only summarize what has been explicitly stated in the source material - and the sourcing does need to be about the short story or at the very least, state the claim being made about the story. If the story is not mentioned, then it should not be used as a source, especially when it comes to themes and influences as these are things that need to very specifically and clearly make the claim. It cannot be implied - the source needs to say "X influenced Y to write Z". :This is a huge issue with the influence and themes section, as there is a big reliance on sources that either do not clearly make the claim or is the novella itself. Keep in mind that themes and influences are two things that are highly subjective to the reader and as such, need to be very clearly stated in the source material. We cannot create our own ties and interpretations - it must be summarized from a source that specifically states that X or Y was a theme or influence.

To stress how limited we are as far as original research guidelines go, we cannot even call Garfield a cat unless we have a reliable source that explicitly states that he is - never mind that he has the appearance and mannerisms of a cat. We need to have a source where Jim Davis or an authority in a reliable source makes this statement.

Both the influence and religious themes sections are based on sourcing that isn't actually about the short story, but about events or elements that may be influences or themes but since they don't mention the short story we cannot draw a connection between these events and potential influences and the story. The same goes for themes. Now one of the sources is the story itself, which poses a different issue. While this is a primary source, we would still need to have something aside from the story that mentions these themes - it could be an author's note or it could be a journal article that interprets the short story, but it would still need to be something about the story rather than the story itself, as the story can't/won't say that X or Y is a theme. It's rare for for a story to actually state its themes or influences in the story itself.

Now as far as the historical context section goes, it's fine for the context section to have sources that are about the era rather than the short story or author, but there should be some sourcing that discusses the story and the time period as far as context goes. Just be careful, as it can be very easy to put in something as context but for it to really not have any context to the short story per se.

• This needs more sourcing about the short story, both to establish notability but to also back up the claims.

• Something else to take into consideration when it comes to themes is that there are more themes here than just religious - a quick search for sourcing shows that there are sources that discuss themes like race. You may also want to look into a reception section - the reception for this has to be fascinating and would definitely vary as time goes by. For example, thoughts on the story when it released will differ from thoughts during the Civil Rights era or today.

These are my main notes and the original research is honestly the most major and pressing point, followed by the sourcing. Resolving the OR issue will resolve the issue with the sourcing to show notability. Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 19:35, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

• Here are some sources I found, some of which are already used:

[1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6] Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 19:42, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

Notes (11/19)

I was doing a quick search on Holgate's other writings, and found this: "Holgate produced a number of other historical and religious works, including American genealogy (1848), Beekman Family Records (1848), Conversations on the Present Age of the World in Connection with Prophecy (1853), Noachidæ; or, Noah and his descendants (1860), and Shortcomings of the Puritan church, and Reorganization of society (1863).Under the pseudonym Oliver Bolokitten[!] also wrote a dystopian novel attacking abolition, A Sojourn in the City of Amalgamation, in the Year of Our Lord, 19— (1835)." I am wondering if you might find something in critical writings about them that might help you to flesh out and source the "Religion" section of this article. (https://bostonraremaps.com/inventory/holgate-atlas-of-american-history-1842/). --Uncannydazzler (talk) 14:11, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Also found a review that dedicates a paragraph to this text: https://www.jstor.org/stable/30041976. --Uncannydazzler (talk) 14:15, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

I am also a little surprised that this (https://openscholarship.wustl.edu/art_sci_etds/634/) does not appear in your references. Seems like one of the few pieces of scholarship to dedicate significant space to the text. --Uncannydazzler (talk) 14:24, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 August 2019 and 5 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Briilcrockett, RavenaWolf, Kaitlynmccall, Tayloremerc, Bbelliott1875. Peer reviewers: Roshnispatel, Ahdavis07, Nicolerewis, Hbberryhill, Sfarmer33, BolanleDahunsi, Brandoncooper001, TarnishaT, Hdjones1234, Corsavea.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 20:36, 19 January 2022 (UTC)