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The Bugle: Issue LXXXII, January 2013

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Discussion regarding WikiProject Kansas

I have started a discussion about making WikiProject Kansas a standalone project separate from WikiProject United States. Please join the discussion at the WikiProject Kansas talk page.

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Thanks, Ks0stm (T•C•G•E) 01:07, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXXIII, February 2013

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RE:USCGC Fir cleanup

Thanks for the Wiki-bling. EricSerge (talk) 17:29, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXXIV, March 2013

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Naval History

Ahoy there, 'Cuprum17', I'm a member of WikiProject Ships. To help naval historians here at Wikipedia in the effort of writing and citing naval history articles sometime ago I created the List of ships captured in the 19th century and Bibliography of early American naval history pages. Over the last year(+) I have been tracking down and including names of captured ships and naval history texts for inclusion in either of these articles. I like to think that I have included most captured ships (19th century) and most naval history texts (covering the 1700s-1800s) for inclusion in these articles, so if you know of any captured ships or naval history texts that are not included would you kindly include them, either on the page or the talk page of the appropriate article? Any help would be a big help and feedback is always welcomed. Thanx! -- Gwillhickers (talk) 06:22, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXXV, April 2013

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Coast Guard Squadron One

Hi, this article looks about just about ready for GA, just the references (as discussed on my talkpage) need to be fixed. Zawed (talk) 22:09, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Right. I intend to look at that early this week and get it resolved. Thanks for your help and suggestions. I will let you know when things are up to snuff with the reference problems. Cuprum17 (talk) 00:04, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Border Air Patrol

Thank you for your helpful comments. Oh btw. I miss Midnight Chow and S.0.S  ;) Bwmoll3 (talk) 18:22, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXXVI, May 2013

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Love history & culture? Get involved in WikiProject World Digital Library!

World Digital Library Wikipedia Partnership - We need you!
Hi Cuprum17! I'm the Wikipedian In Residence at the World Digital Library, a project of the Library of Congress and UNESCO. I'm recruiting Wikipedians who are passionate about history & culture to participate in improving Wikipedia using the WDL's vast free online resources. Participants can earn our awesome WDL barnstar and help to disseminate free knowledge from over 100 libraries in 7 different languages. Please sign up to participate here. Thanks for editing Wikipedia and I look forward to working with you! SarahStierch (talk) 19:59, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

FYI: Army vessel designations

You made an innocent change in USCGC Nettle (WAK-169) turning USA FS-396 into USAT FS-396 that I changed back. The smaller vessels, particularly service vessels such as tugs, rescue boats and such were designate U.S. ARMY (NAME) as can clearly be seen in photos at FS (freight and supply vessels) and Tugs. Somehow the USAT got into consciousness, most people didn't even know Army had a fleet, for any Army ship. There are some odd exceptions (I'm still mystified at how some old cable ships got both USAT and the English world recognized CS for Cable Ship), but in general that was only applied to large passenger/cargo vessels and even then it was restricted. To quote Grover, who did the definitive work on the fleet; "The formal designation USAT, for U.S. Army Transport was officially reserved for those vessels owned by, or bareboat-chartered to the Army, as opposed to those vessels that were allocated by the War Shipping Administration (WSA) or were under other forms of charter." (page one, U.S. Army Ships and Watercraft of World War II). Palmeira (talk) 01:09, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Happy Memorial Day!


ZappaOMati is wishing you a Happy Memorial Day! On this day, we recognize our fellow countrymen who have fought our nation's battles for the past several hundred years, protecting our freedom and safety. We remember those who paid the ultimate price and we support those who continue to willingly sacrifice their safety for the sake of their country. Happy Memorial Day!

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The Bugle: Issue LXXXVII, June 2013

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FYI Vietnam Service Medal

I clarified the 30 campaign remark as it can be confusing to read. For example the Army had only 17 campaigns and not a total of thirty. Feel free to make it even clearer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mphsmeister (talk • contribs) 01:01, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXXVIII, July 2013

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DHS

I can't figure out why you did this: [1]. Your log message makes no sense to me. Can you explain? Kendall-K1 (talk) 15:22, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes I can. You did not explain why you removed referenced material from the article. What was your reasoning? If there is a valid reason for doing so, I don't have a problem with it, but in the Edit Summary for each edit you should describe your edit and you failed to do so, hence my revert. Referenced material, as long as it related to the subject at hand, should stand unless there is a better, or possibly NEWER reference in this case. If you are objecting to 2007 figures used in a 2013 situation, then the thing to do would be to substitute the later reference as a service to the reader. STRIKE! I was asleep at the switch on this... Cuprum17 (talk) 16:49, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
No worries. Thanks. Go get another cup of coffee! Kendall-K1 (talk) 20:22, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

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August 2013

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The Bugle: Issue LXXXIX, August 2013

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Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/USCGC Bitt (WYTL-65613) concern

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Disambiguation link notification for September 7

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September 2013

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WikiProject Military history coordinator election

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The Bugle: Issue LXXXXX, September 2013

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Thank you

I am impressed with your user page and would like to thank you for your service. Tony the Marine (talk) 03:16, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Welcome Home, Brother...as one Vietnam Vet to another. Thank you. AS a proud Coast Guardsman, I want all articles that center around the coast Guard to be standing tall and looking good. Thank you for your clarifications on the article Hispanics in the United States Coast Guard. I have copy edited the areas where there were errors in ship name formatting that are not always apparent to the non-Coast Guard editor or reader. If I can help further with the copy edit of the article so that it stays a good article, I will be more than willing to help. I am particularly interested in the Vietnam War and authored the Good Article Coast Guard Squadron One. The last entry in the 1968 section mentions Fireman Heriberto S. Hernandez, USCG, so I was familiar with that part of your article. Research into ship histories is on of my interests. Cuprum17 (talk) 05:15, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

October 2013

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Your submission at Articles for creation: USCGC Bitt (WYTL-65613) (October 1)

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Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia! APerson (talk!) 17:12, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

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Question

Hello,

I noticed you have help with the Emporia State University page and was wondering if you could help me out. The user Emporiauni is contributing to the article (which is great!), but does the references wrong. The names do not appear right in the reference section due to the not adding a name. (If that makes sense.) Is there a way you could possibly tell that user the correct way of making the article appear in the references section? I certainly do not, and I'm not sure about other users, have the time to go in and change all of that. I hope what I have asked makes sense! You'll see what I mean when you view the page.

Thanks! Corkythehornetfan (Talk) (Contributions) 20:54, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Well, you have me tagged. I graduated from KSTC Emporia in December 1972 with a BS in Business. You are correct at the bad referencing that is on the Emporia State page. I hadn't paid much attention to the page for a few days and now the reference section is filled with bare URL links, which is not a good thing. I will use the entry you just made for Leon Lett as an example of what not to do. Footnote #149 for Lett does not cite a reference or a page that is usable to the reader. Biographical Directory of the United States Congress does not mean much to me...is it on line? Is it a book and if so when was it published? I did find a directory at Biographical Directory of the United States Congress but typing in Lett for the last name and Leon for the first name yields no results. Bad reference... Footnote #150 is just a bare link to the ESU Athletic Hall of Fame with Lett's entry. Apparently Lett was a football player that was good enough to get to play for the NFL...and that is good, but the Wikipedia article on him could use some editing, so I don't know much else about him. The citation style that I prefer is used in an article that I wrote over the course of two years ...check the style that is used on Coast Guard Squadron One or William E. Reynolds. They use a section for the citation itself and a separate section for the actual reference that is cited, whether it is an on line resource or a book. The actual citation uses a particular format that tells the author, if known, the title of the of the reference and the PAGE NUMBER , it does NOT link directly to the reference on line, but rather is used WITH the "References cited" section to tell the reader where to look and provide an on-line link if it is a web source, otherwise the reference book gives the publication data, so that it can be either looked up in a library or purchased. The entries are different; one is a citation and one is the reference that it came from.
I don't know that 150+ references to items in the Emporia State article does the reader any good, especially if they link to the wrong individual. I have found in checking some of the citations that they lead to the wrong individual, someone with no connection to ESU. I can install the proper referencing and citation sections, but if people coming in after me and putting citations in that don't follow format, it will soon be the mish-mash that it is now. Under Media and arts the third entry is Fred Burchinal, clicking on the link gives me a bio for Fred Burchinal - BUT the bio cited does not mention ESU at all. The citation has to relate to the article, in this case, ESU...
There is an entry for Jim Kelly under the Politics and Government section. If you follow the link Jim Kelly, you are directed to a pro football player with absolutely no connection to Emporia State. If you follow the citation, it links you to the Wikipedia article Kansas House of Representatives, and if the reader knew enough to go to the 11th district and click on Jim Kelly you would find the entry on the Emporia State alumni that I know personally as a high school classmate and my state representative. I have left this just the way I have found it, but I will go in and correct his entry after you have looked at it. I don't know who put the reference in, but they didn't check the link to see that it lead to the right Kelly, and whoever put the link down for the Kansas House of Representatives really should have left that out and linked directly to the Jim Kelly that graduated from ESU page.
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but I'm not sure that I'm the one to straighten this out. If it were solely up to me, I would start from scratch and only include those persons that had Wikipedia entries already (first checking to see if the article mentioned Emporia State and making sure that that was referenced!) For an editor to remove every citation off an article and start from scratch would be a very radical move and one that almost surely would draw complaints from other editors. Each person would have to be checked for authenticity (did they actually attend Emporia State) and the citation and reference would have satisfy Wikipedia standards, including the one about notability. If a person graduated from ESU, but isn't notable by Wikipedia standards then they really shouldn't be listed.
I noticed that you contacted Emporiauni on the talk page. That is a good first step with building rapport with the editor in question. I don't know how successful you will be, since I'm not sure he has followed up on any of the Bracketbot messages that have been left there and he hasn't responded to your comment either. (However, it hasn't been a week yet, so give him some time). If an editor won't do the follow up on that, then they probably won't be too receptive to suggestions that they clean up their citation and reference act.
I would make the suggestion that at least in the case of athletic alumni the citations could be reduced considerably by the use of one citation to the web page: Hall of Fame. The reader could easily find the person they are interested in by scrolling through the entries on the web page. I could start that format, but I can't say when as my editing time on Wikipedia is somewhat limited and I have projects that I am committed to in the way of military history.
Stay in touch with me and give me your ideas and maybe we can coordinate some of the entries for the ESU article. It would be helpful to me if I knew when you attended or graduated from ESU and if you have any current connection with the university. I will help, or find someone that will as long as you agree to pitch-in also. Cheers... Cuprum17 (talk) 00:17, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
Thanks! I currently attend, have other family members that attend, and had family that attended back in the 80's, 90's, and early 2000's. I also have family that work there. I know that Emporiauni, works at ESU. I was asked on my talk page last month by one of the webmaster's assistants, to help him out because he was new to Wikipedia.
I agree to pitch in and help. I did create a page List of Emporia State University people, as suggested by Sbmeirow, and moved everything over there. However, I didn't check links, or references, but I did notice some references, just link to a wikipedia page, as you mentioned. I wasn't sure about people that didn't have a Wikipedia page, so I just put them in bold. I will go and check those links and see if I can find a better reference, tomorrow or sometime later this week. I will probably redo the whole page, and just add those who have a Wikipedia page.
Thanks again! Corkythehornetfan (Talk) (Contributions) 00:56, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
You are on the right track and User:Sbmeirow has the right idea also. He has helped out several times on Kansas related articles. I do have one suggestion though...If the Wikipedia article on the person mentions Emporia State, then a citation after the entry shouldn't be necessary because it duplicates what is already linked. The problem would be if the Wikipedia article being linked didn't mention a connection with Emporia State.
I will go ahead and make some corrections where I run across them.
Keep up the good work! Cheers... Cuprum17 (talk) 01:14, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
I have went in and removed links to the pages that linked to the wrong person. I also took the references off of those that stated ESU in their article, as well as changing the athletes and coaches to the Hall of Fame page, as you suggested. I did like that idea, and hadn't given it a thought! Thanks again for your help! Corkythehornetfan (Talk) (Contributions) 23:43, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
The page is really shaping up and you have done a great job in getting the format down. I confess to not being able to leave it alone, so I have made some changes in the Presidents section of the article to make it a little more readable. I have a suggestion that would improve the Presidents section even more and you could help. How about putting about three pictures of past presidents on the right hand side of the page next to the table I have added. Maybe, Lyman Beecher Kellogg, or Thomas W. Butcher, or Dr. John E. Visser. I wouldn't use Shonrock since he has a Wikipedia article about him. I think it would dress the page up a little. Just a suggestion.
Thanks! And you have done a great job as well! I like the idea of the pictures. I will add Kellogg, Butcher, and another president. Dr. John E. Visser's page is blank, and am not sure I can find a photo of him. I did think about adding Dr. Robert E. Glennen. He was the president who founded the National Teachers Hall of Fame.

Glennen is an excellent choice. I was trying to get presidents that had served a long time. I'll look forward to see what you have done with the pix. Cuprum17 (talk) 02:58, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

I added the pictures. I put them in a wikitable format, but each separately. However, I do not like the way I have the caption set up, I'm not good at formatting the pictures on pages, because I haven't dealt with pictures that much, except for those that are in info boxes. And, I didn't like them on the right side of the page all of the way, so that is why I put them in the wikitable format. I hope you can make it look better then what I did! Thanks! Corkythehornetfan (Talk) 22:11, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
Is this picture edit an improvement? The size of the picture itself had to be reduced somewhat to make the entries appear in the Presidents section. I changed your wording slightly for KSN and KSTC because the non-ESU reader might not understand the evolution of name changes just from this article. Tell me what you think. Cuprum17 (talk) 16:32, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
Looks good! And, that does make sense about the KSN/KSTC thing. I never even gave that a thought! Corkythehornetfan 22:00, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCI, October 2013

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November 2013

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The Bugle: Issue XCII, November 2013

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Disambiguation link notification for November 28

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Invitation to participate in an interview for the Bugle newsletter

Hi Cuprum, I'm one of the editors of the Military History Wikiproject's newsletter The Bugle, and would like to invite you to participate in a group interview we're conducting for the upcoming December edition. The interview is covering the views of editors who work on topics which are under-represented in the English Wikipedia, and we'd be really interested in your perspectives as an editor who's done a lot of work on the US Coast Guard. If you have time, it would be great if you could provide responses to some or all of the questions at Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/News/December 2013/Interview by Monday 9 December. Regards, Nick-D (talk) 23:43, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, Nick-D for your invitation to do an interview for the Bugle. I an flattered that I was selected and I have completed the completed the interview here. I hope I have done it right and if I haven't, show the error of my ways and I shall make amends...Cheers... Cuprum17 (talk) 01:41, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
Thanks very much. The responses will be published at Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/News/December 2013/Interview, but I can easily copy them across from the talk page. Regards, Nick-D (talk) 05:01, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Your comment on IP's at the MILHIST talk page

I totally get what you are saying and unfortunately that is the feeling of many. Its really no better to advocate creating userid's because then they just create ten throwaway user id's and vandalize with those. It only takes a few extra seconds. You also said that a lot of the vandalism you see is by IP's. While that is certainly true, a lot of the edits that are useful are from IP's as well. A quick scan through recent changes shows a good sampling of good and bad. As for me creating a Username. I have no more desire to edit here from a username. I had one that I have basically thrown away after many years and a lot of edits. I spend the majority of my editing time at Wikia now. I find it to be a much more pleasnt editing environment. 138.162.8.58 (talk) 18:50, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Dear Navy Network Information Center (NNIC) (138.162.8.58); from your talk page I see edit after edit that you or someone using your computer that have been reverted all the way back to 16 May 2008. I have enough military background to know that no one stays at a duty station for that length of time. Do you claim all of those reverts? How am I to know who edited on that IP address? You or someone else that sat at your desk?
I agree with you that if someone wants to game the system, it is east to get a registered account ( or more) and do some damage. I would hope that you are not one of those individuals. If you are a sailor, we have something in common...I am a retired Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer, a fact that is easily determined from my user page...I know nothing about you...except that the IP you post from has a record of problems with Wikipedia. I hope that those weren't your edits... Cuprum17 (talk) 20:10, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
Yeah the IP is a proxy (also 50-59 and others). Its not tied to a specific seat its a random shuffle although I do get the 58 one with some frequency and if you look at the contribs you will see a lot of good edits and comments besides the vandlism and other mischief done by others. I am retired from the Marine Corps and I work for the Navy. As for why I don't use my login, I just got tired of the constant battling and insults. I tried for years to ignore the problems and I got swept up in them, then I told myself I couldn't ignore them anymore and started to do something about them, then I found that no one wanted to do anything about them. Many seem to like the difficult and hostile environment because it keeps them feeling important. Admins have the power and they want to keep it, they don't want to share it and allow more people to help out. So they protect more articles, they block IP's, they ensure that editors are kept in their place and ensure that things stay broken. I have no need for an account to do a minor edit or post a comment so why bother with one. Anytime someone wants to block this IP then they can. No big deal to me. Anyway, its nothing personal to you, but the discussion over at milhist basically stating from multiple members that they had no respect or time for IP's really pissed me off and it absolutely puts that project in a new light for me. I had thought that it was the best and most approachable project on the wiki. Now that I have seen things form an IP's perspective though I can see I was wrong and its just a facade. Anyway, good luck and happy editing. 138.162.8.58 (talk) 20:21, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
Most of the Marines I have known in my military career learn to adapt and overcome. Not one to my knowledge blamed others for their own shortcomings. Navy computers require the use of CAC to log in. The Navy knows who is on-line at any given time. Don't get yourself in trouble for burning up Navy time.
If you want help, Marine, the only thing you have to do is ask me. I'm just an editor, but I'm a user friendly one. You take the first step. Perhaps you have been wronged...step back from the problem and get a fresh look at things. MILHIST needs good editors and fair admins. Almost everyone on the project has treated me fairly as long as I treated them fairly. Come back, register and contact me, I'll help anyway I can... Cuprum17 (talk) 20:39, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
Actually I think your missing the point I was trying to make. I came to the MILHIST page to scold you and the others on telling/implying a contributing IP editor that you didn't want their help and didn't have time for IP editors. So I wanted to tell you in no uncertain terms that conduct was completly unacceptable and shameful. Then you and Marsha begin bashing me because I too am an IP. I think perhaps you and Marchus are the ones in need of some self reflection and on how your comments on the MILHIST talk page reflect discredit upon that project and Wikipedia. If you don't like IP's editing here then frankly that's just tough shit. They are allowed to edit and you and Marcus and Binksternet and whomever else commented over there really don't have a leg to stand on. You seem like a solid guy but your demeanor towards IP editors and that discussion reflect the exact reasons why I stopped editing here and really do not make me inclined to create another username or login with my old one. 138.162.8.59 (talk) 21:02, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
I think I met you half way with my offer to help, Marine. I'm done here, there will be no reply to an IP address, but the offer still stands Cuprum17 (talk) 21:40, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

No. 2 Squadron RAAF

G'day, mate, thanks for assessing No. 2 Squadron RAAF. In response to your comment on the assessment page, I've uploaded the unit crest to the infobox now if you want to take a look. Have a good day! Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 12:16, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

I like it! Imagine, a magpie on a unit crest! By way of information of little or no value, here's my old unit crest. I was assigned to Detachment A in Biên Hòa in the III Corps area when I did my Army time in Viet Nam. As a Signal Corps photographer I spent most of my time in the reproduction photo laboratory processing miles and miles of aerial photography, but on a good day I got to ride along with the Air Force forward air controller in an O-1 Bird Dog and shoot aerial photography. Being in III Corps, I did actually meet some Aussie diggers. They were beerhounds, like myself...good, mates. Cheers. Cuprum17 (talk) 14:16, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
G'day, that's a pretty spectacular crest, and yes, I have been accused of being a "beerhound" when I was younger. I've cut down recently, though. Take care, AustralianRupert (talk) 04:08, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 5

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The Bugle: Issue XCIII, December 2013

Full front page of The Bugle
Your Military History Newsletter

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 00:21, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Your submission at AfC USCGC Bitt (WYTL-65613) was accepted

USCGC Bitt (WYTL-65613), which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.
The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for Creation if you prefer.

Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!

TKK public (Bark at me \\ Block this account if it's acting funny!) 21:20, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
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