User talk:Cyclocifra

Welcome!

Hello, Cyclocifra, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! Glad to see someone who knows about viols! I wrote a couple viol articles, which you might want to look over and fix up if you're looking for something to do - lyra viol, viola bastarda, division viol, and Chest of viols. Cheers, Mak (talk) 06:03, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Paolo Pandolfo[edit]

Hi, I've just started Paolo Pandolfo, which I guess was needed. Could you help fix it up? Badagnani 07:32, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

wow, that was quick! Good on ya. I'd be happy to add some things over time, but I warn you I am biased ;-) i.e. I am a huge fan. Is there anything in particular you'd like more of? No guarantees that I'll have what you need. I'm not sure of what kind of content you envision, but I'll try when I have time. So please fill me in a little more about what you'd like. Cyclocifra 08:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

ok. Just added a start to the Discography. That should be all his main titles, solo or independant efforts that is. The Jordi Savall/Hesperion collaborations is a whole other project. Cyclocifra 22:31, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Are you Australian? Too bad no audio samples on Amazon for the Cello Suites. Badagnani 22:39, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

no, I just like that phrase. I'm Wisconsin-raised and living in California. Sorry there's no clips. You won't be dissapointed if you spring for it though, I promis. Cyclocifra 23:12, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Vielle[edit]

Hi, do you have a vielle picture to spare for the vielle page? Also, some vielles have guitar-like (smooth) curves while others have violin-like cutouts, right? I think these shapes should be noted at vielle, lirone, lira da braccio, etc. Badagnani 21:04, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi; my PC is down right now (I'm on my Mac) but Google images has lots of them, try "medieval fiddle". I would say all vielle had either almost rectangular outlines or slightly indented (smooth curved) waists. By the time the sharp violin-like body cuts first appeared (c.1440-50) the vielle's days were over. Even the "Renaissance fiddle" like Hans Memling’s didn't have cuts (and I believe were alone, singular, in this regard). I should add that some (many) 14th century Italian fiddles had more definite deeply indented (but smooth) figure eight shaped bodies and were also rather more long and narrow overall. Cyclocifra 22:28, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting[edit]

Look at the similarity between this chitarra battente rosette [1] and this Louis H. Sullivan bank: [2] Badagnani 02:11, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

more than likely coincidence -- but ya never know where inspiration might come from. Cyclocifra 02:37, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

New track[edit]

Here's me playing 6-string bass viol in a folk style, from the new CD of Sue Jeffers, a political folk musician who lives in my town. It's track 8 only; viol starts at about 1:25 into the song. I think the instrument has potential for American folk music and often play viol with old-time jam sessions, playing fiddle tunes along with the fiddles and banjos (an octave lower). Badagnani 04:07, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds nice, fits in perfectly. And I think you're absolutely right too, that viols have lots of potential, lots of life left in um yet, for modern or old-timey common-man musics (as it used to be) once people become aware of them again. Great. This is why I'm exposing guitarists (in particular) to viols, hoping that some of them will begin getting ideas in their heads ;-) I'm also hoping people will begin building new updated modernized models, acoustic in particular, with fixed metal frets. That's the thing that's most prevented a wide-spread modern revival. Tied frets just won't do in today's world, for the masses that is. Cyclocifra 04:28, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A friend of mine had her classic bass viol retro-fitted with metal frets recently, and she loves it! Cyclocifra 04:51, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The electric Ruby Gamba looks like a nice thing and I really like the jazzy things Jay Elfenbein and Gilles Zimmermann have done with it (do you know them?). I do think that the need for pure thirds and other intervals is important, something modern players don't think about enough. Sometimes the old-timers knew more about things than we think we do. :) Badagnani 07:23, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You can hear some of Zimmermann's music by clicking here or here -- the audio samples section of his site seems to be down right now but he also does some great multi-tracked jazz tunes with multiple gambas -- there are some poorly mixed MP3s here. Badagnani 07:32, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jay Elfenbein's stuff is somewhat similar to Zimmermann's -- sounds like a gamba "big band": listen here and here. The Ruby Gamba page has some additional audio here (make sure to listen to the Tony Overwater solo track). Badagnani 07:37, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've heard some of their clips in the past, meant to buy one of those CD's too, but I'll check out those specific clips later. Thanks.

Regarding intonation, a modern "compensated nut" will solve much of those problems (guitarists never did stop fiddling with their machines, we kept experimenting and learning ;-). Jonathan Wilson uses them on his GuitarViols. Better intonating bridges will help a whole lot too. Cyclocifra 07:56, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The "Earvana CTS compensated Nut" is what Jonathan uses on his GuitarViols. Here's a chart comparing cents values of notes on the fretboard before and after. Calculations are based on Equal Temperament of course. Cyclocifra 10:19, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Altra Gamba looks interesting too. Badagnani 08:02, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Reminds me of this instrument, The triumph of Maximilian I (triumphal cart or carriage), Hans Burgkmair, 1518. Cyclocifra 09:42, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Spain to Italy[edit]

I just read that the viol came from Spain to Italy with exile families forced out of Spain in 1492. That seems to make sense. Badagnani 08:07, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also, in 1492 the new pope, Rodrigo "Borgia" (Pope Alexander VI), was installed. He came from Valencia Spain, bringing with him his court chapel (he was a Bishop there I believe) including his musicians (Orpheon has an article).

Aha, he's the genius behind this travesty![3] Badagnani 09:53, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Two extremely important early vihuela icons are due to Borgia's commissions: one is in the Vatican itself (a fresco in the "Borgia apartments"), the other is that new vihuela icon discovered in the Cathedral of Valencia. We'll never know the exact route and dates of viol entry into Italy, but any good dated evidence come theorys can't hurt. Where did you read your account? Cyclocifra 09:36, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bass violin[edit]

You might want to look in at Bass violin (article as well as discussion). Badagnani (talk) 10:19, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Daddy-O, long time. I took a quick peek. Those are some very murky waters to be swimming, i.e. the basso da braccio buisness, the bass of the violin family. My main computers and iconography collection are in storage right now. Even under ideal personal circumstances I might be wise and well advised to stay clear! I don't believe anyone anywhere really knows a heck of a lot about the instruments in question, and I do believe that violin enthusiasts are quite happy to make up as much ancient history as they see fit. One thing I would remind our friend is that an Italianate shape, carved top, F-holes, and even the stubby little end-pin means little when IDing icons, e.g. the Dirk Hals image. The shorter neck-length therein, however, says more to me, and does gives more fuel to his assessment. Guitar Tab web-site?! Jeesh! ;-) Later Cyclocifra (talk) 11:50, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Vihuela[edit]

I took the liberty to upload your picture Vihuela-basso to Commons. There immediately appeared a template, "crop", saying the picture should have its border removed. Would it be possible for you, to renew the cropping, so that it would leave no black border? rgds. -Islander(Scandinavia) (talk) 12:52, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Smeone fixed it, You don't need to. -Islander(Scandinavia) (talk) 10:09, 1 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Unreferenced BLPs[edit]

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