User talk:Drmies/Archive 31

Sabbath Rest Advent Church

Hi there! Please take a look at the article and check out the new third party citations. If you are in agreement I would appreciate it if you could remove the banner. Thanks PTtrans (talk) 12:29, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

• Sure--after the sabbath. Drmies (talk) 17:26, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
  • I hope you're not referring to the sabbatical year ;-) PTtrans (talk) 20:23, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
    • No. I didn't file the all-important paperwork on time, and it's only a semester anyway. Drmies (talk) 13:31, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
      • Thanks Drmies!--How do I get on to the payroll? PTtrans (talk) 18:58, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
        • Make friends with User:Mandarax, and then drop User:Sue Gardner a line. Don't tell her I suggested this--she still hasn't responded to my dinner invitation. Drmies (talk) 19:11, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Hexie Farm

Casliber (talk · contribs) 16:05, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Pop-up sock?

A few hours after RhymeZero gets blocked, we find this new thread form an IP (in Alabama it seems): [1]. I was wondering if there was any connection? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:24, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks for the note. Drmies (talk) 17:32, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Only one, uh, interesting edit so far [2], but you might want to keep an eye on User:99.231.142.240. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:03, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• That's really poor English. Drmies (talk) 00:14, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Here's more poor English: User:Tastypie15. Presumably this user really is 15. Or maybe that's just his IQ score. But does he really deserve an account? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:57, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

• Q: Who doesn't like Tastypie? A: User:Edgar181, that's who. Drmies (talk) 13:30, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Bellesiles subpage

Hey, at BLPN, there's a discussion about an issue with the Bellesiles article. A rather knowledgeable and clever IP created a subpage here to illustrate a point. As you can see, someone else has come along and requested that the subpage be speedily deleted. The IP asked me on my Talk page to delete the SD tag, which I've declined to do. I don't know whether the IP was permitted to create the subpage (of course, he doesn't have a sandbox) or, related, whether it should be speedily deleted. All I can think of at the moment is to stick the material in my sandbox, or some other subpage of my account. BTW, there's nothing "wrong" with the point the IP is making, regardless of whether you agree with it. Any guidance or suggestions? Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:52, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

• I gotta go run some errands (canine matters); I'll look at it later. Perhaps by then it will be resolved. PS: see ANI for the thread on Rob, and the related 3RR report re:Andrew Nikolić, which you've jumped into as well. Drmies (talk) 17:55, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

• Canine matters?? Heh, hope it's nothing serious. I doubt it will be resolved by then, but no biggie. I can't look to you to resolve every problem I have. :-) I've commented at ANI on the Nikolic matter. I also went back and looked at the very long history for the last 24 hours and decided, in an excess of caution, that I'm going to stop editing the article, even though my third "revert" was simply combining two tags into one. In a dispute as heated as this one, best to be careful. I also saw the admin decline of the report on procedural grounds and your, uh, blunt comment.--Bbb23 (talk) 18:06, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

• The Bellesiles problem has been resolved, thanks to the IP following my suggestion and a cooperative admin. The Nikolic issue has moved along by a different admin taking your suggestion and blocking YRC and the other editor for 72 hours. Resolution of the underlying content issues will require more work, and I don't know what YRC will do when he returns from the block - hopefully, he will have cooled off. I'll try to steer the discussion at the Nikolic Talk page back to constructive comment, but I think other experienced editors need to contribute to obtain some consensus. See how life goes on even when you're gone?--Bbb23 (talk) 19:31, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

• I'm glad it got resolved. Honestly, I find this difficult, but of course I'm trying to read this with two irritating children hanging out. I don't quite know the rules for subpages; I've only run into them once or twice. The dog had to get groomed today--now she smells better than new. And I picked up some delicious beers on the way back so it's all good. Now I'm going to look at the other situation; I also would have blocked both though I didn't have enough time to look at the actual edit, even thought that's immaterial (it wasn't obvious vandalism). And what a tiny little matter that was. Thanks Bbb for picking up the slack. When I die, you get my notebook. Drmies (talk) 22:20, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

• We're making some progress on the Nikolic content dispute. I wish I could say the same on the YRC block, which is mostly spiraling out of control both on YRC's Talk page and at ANI. Even our friend deft Dennis is having trouble keeping the discussion focused, although you gotta give him credit for trying. It's not like we haven't been here before with YRC, and it's pretty much the same arguments being repeated. The only comment I enjoyed was Nobody Ent's about Tolkien's ents.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:35, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

• I was going to call you both "meanies" but Drmies has been in a blocking mood lately and I don't want to tempt fate... YRC does need some civility lessons, and I'm not the one to deliver them. He opposed me at RfC and he seems to have no use for my opinions. Didn't dissuade me from doing what I felt was the right thing to do, the same as I would do for any good contributor. And I'm flattered by your faith Bbb, you are more qualified for the mop than I am on most levels. Like I said before, if we all agreed all the time, there would be no opportunity to learn from each other. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 00:40, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• Not to worry about spirals. Rob won't be a sockmaster. Bbb is indeed ready for the mop, but I make no judgment on more or less qualified than someone else. For shits and giggles, y'all should look at the opposes on my RfA. Drmies (talk) 00:42, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• ...Not to mention the long conversation on the RfA talk page. LadyofShalott 00:56, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
• That is amusing, took a minute to figure out. Perhaps there is hope. Your RfA, however, looked like a camp sing-a-long compared to mine. 205/2/3? Pffft. My mop was tempered in a pit of fire and molten rock. It was not my desire and I have tried extending olive branches but in the end I have not been disappointed only because I expected so little. Their misconceptions are not my responsibility, and it doesn't affect my own inner sense of right and wrong, which is independent of any person's personal feelings or opinions regarding me. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 01:02, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• "pit of fire and molten rock"? As I recall, you were pleasantly surprised that your RfA went so smoothly, as it should have. As for Drmies, I was struck by two things. First, I was unaware he was made an admin so recently (a year ago) - my ignorance knows no bounds. Second, although I didn't read the whole RfA (my laziness knows no bounds), what came through was his personality and his humor. I hereby retroactively support his nomination.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:32, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• My RfA was going quite smoothly until toward the end. After the RfA, well, perhaps I downplayed the event as laboring it would have served no purpose. If I made it sound like it wasn't extremely stressful and you believed me, then I'm a better liar than I thought. Never confuse my ability to show restraint with a lack of passion. ;) If you prick us, do we not bleed? yet I prefer to not display my wounds, as that is not conducive to achieving my end goal in a discussion. If I'm anything, I am focused in a discussion. My lack of formal education requires this, as grammar is not my biggest asset. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 01:54, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
• Thanks. I still can't believe I got off so lightly, and I still wonder why no one asked a hard question--not even Keepscases. But if you know how many ****s I had to suck to get over 200... Hey Lady, tonight we had (cold) cucumber soup and English muffin bread: quite delightful, dear! You'd have enjoyed it, I think, and I need you around more often to keep those girls in check. I've started scheduling you and Bbb starting in September for babysitting duties. Drmies (talk) 01:58, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• Oh that does sound good. Babysitting the girls sounds fun too. You gonna buy the gas for me to drive over there and back? I hope Mrsmies had a lovely Mothers' Day! LadyofShalott 02:25, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• Sure I'll pay for gas. Or you can use my Wikimedia Foundation-issued gas card. And that's Mrs. Drmies, of course. ;) Yeah, I guess she did. She's finishing up a paper for her Dickens class. We went out for breakfast, which she wanted, but mostly we stayed quietly at home. It's been raining. The dog had a Petsmart-administered bath, so all of us smell pretty decent now. BTW, happy Mother's Day to your sister too--do I interpret family terminology correctly? Hey, I'm messaging with K via Skype as we speak, funny. He said "winter is coming." Drmies (talk) 02:35, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• Yes, she's my sister, and thanks! I'm glad Mrs Drmies got to do what she wanted before having to settle in to work. We got the rain here too. That made it chilly, but it seems odd to think of winter coming at this point. I bet it's not like Canadian or Mongolian winters though. LadyofShalott 03:50, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Problem with Template:History of Georgia

Hi, and sorry to bother you!

I'm coming here on account on problems we're having working on Template:History of Georgia. A week ago, when it first came to my attention, the template was a mess, didn't conform to style guidelines, had entries in wrong order, etc. I started making changes, only to be reverted by User:GeorgianJorjadze, who until then had been the main contributor to the template (together with his sock User:Tanllocittis when he was under a block).

At the invitation of User:Wesley Mouse, we opened discussion on the talk page, where GeorgianJorjadze made few arguments for or against changes and never answered specific issues. Other editors came up with positive input to the discussion, and a new version seemed consensual. GeorgianJorjadze declared that as long as some minor states were not removed, he "may agree" with it. So I went ahead and put the new version up with all the duchies and principalities in it, but at least some order and style. I took the step of creating a list of states, linked from the template, which would reduce the need to have them all there. I put many times those arguments in writing on the talk page, and he never answered them.

From that moment, GeorgianJorjadze has kept editing the template without justifying his changes - putting capitals on names, changing them from the name of the article linked to others which, I guess, suit his pov better, etc. When I (or others) correct him with arguments, his usual reaction is to revert me altogether, then to add back, step by step, some of my changes in the template as if deleting before reading the reasons for them (the last edits to the page are a good example). This can keep going forever, and I honestly don't know what to do after trying that hard. Could you help in some way? Thanks!--Susuman77 (talk) 20:14, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

• No bother. I understand your frustration: you are dealing with an editor who is not very good at listening and even worse at communicating. I see that some order was restored to the template by another editor. At this point, and I hate to use battle metaphors, you have outnumbered your opponent; fortunately, you two have done so with arguments as well. If there is a consensus on the current version, as far as I'm concerned you can cite your opponent (sorry) for disruption next time they revert. Clearly those capitals are against the MoS, for instance--disruptive editing is a kind of vandalism. And it seems that all that needs to be said has been said: WP:IDNHT is in effect. methinks. Good luck, Drmies (talk) 01:59, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice! Indeed I was feeling frustrated, but a good night of sleep helped with that. I guess we'll be able to deal with it and cite him if necessary. Good day to you!--Susuman77 (talk) 08:54, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

After similar edits of his this morning, and being in danger myself of getting over 3RR, I've left the guy a message on both his tp and the article's, to explain the disruptive nature of his edits and the possible consequences, and give him a chance to answer. I hope he can understand. If not, per your advice, I'll go to ANI.--Susuman77 (talk) 11:52, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Ha, he already deleted the message from his tp ([3]). Guess constructive criticism doesn't always work.--Susuman77 (talk) 11:55, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

If he doesn't start editing more constructively he's headed for yet another block, possibly a very long one. I hope it doesn't go that far. Drmies (talk) 18:06, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Sadly it did get as far as another block. In my personal opinion, I think there is a lack of communication skills with the user; and if acted upon appropriately and empathetically, I'm sure GJ could well be a good user. I know I had a few run-ins with him in the past and got over-judgemental in regards to his constant rapid talk-page deleting whenever people ask him questions or post warnings. But taking into account this sincere comment from him, I do feel there is a milligram of potential goodness in there just itching to burst out of him. P.S. Yes, I'm back; a little dazed (naturally) but ready to get into constructive and collaborative editing. Thanks to all of you for your warm-hearted support - you really are my new adopted family. Wesley☀Mouse 15:57, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Query (continued from ANI)

The two obviously connected IPs are 81.156.143.126 and 86.141.232.11, as they both made contentious reverts quoting the same nonexistent policy on Cartman Finds Love. The third one I suspect is 81.156.65.186, as it followed me with a silent revert on Family Guy (season 10) shortly afterwards. Thank you in advance. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 21:33, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

• Yep, that's irritating. You can't really call it socking (I can't be bothered to look up the policy right now to quote it); it's disruptive IP hopping, at least that's my term for it. Both articles are (now) semi-protected which is about the only thing you can do. Here's what you could do: warn the IP. If they hop, escalate to a higher level warning on the next IP talk page, making a note about IP hopping (WP:DUCK applies to socking, but the gist of it is that similar edits often indicate the same editor). Then take it to AIV or ask for semi-protection. If they're hardcore the problem may continue, of course. I hope this helps--my oven is beeping so the muffin bread is ready. Gotta go. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 00:52, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Frog and the Birdsong

Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:05, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Beautiful music on death! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:34, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

And life. Thanks Gerda, Drmies (talk) 13:39, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Aww, that was a nice surprise that you included me in the DYK. I did not earn it! LadyofShalott 17:51, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• Of course you did. Without you I wouldn't be doing much of anything at all. Drmies (talk) 17:52, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• Wow, that's hard for me to believe, but incredibly nice of you to say. At its best, Wikipedia is truly collaborative, and I'm glad if my efforts have encouraged yours. Thanks, Drmies. LadyofShalott 18:02, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• I wish, though, that you'd help me pump up the number of watchers. I'm the MacDaddy of low-scoring DYKs. Even Hexie Farm only barely got over 2,000 hits. :( Drmies (talk) 18:05, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• Well, I posted the link on my Facebook. I'm not sure what other help I can give you there. :/ LadyofShalott 23:01, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• Hey, did you see: one of my friends has ordered the book after reading your article. LadyofShalott 03:05, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

• Yes, awesome! Thanks Lady. Drmies (talk) 03:09, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

• I thought I'd already checked our catalog for that one, but I obviously had not. I'm now waiting on that to come in for me as well as several others by Velthuijs. (How do you pronounce that - Vel-thoo-ice, Vel-thice, ...ize?) LadyofShalott 20:28, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

• See Ui_(digraph)#U. I couldn't have come up with that IPA notation myself. Drmies (talk) 14:52, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

• Ah, thanks. I was focusing on the ij in conjunction instead of the ui. LadyofShalott 20:47, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Tropen Library

Well, I got a reply... told me to try the National Archives. Funny thing though, the person who responded called me "Dengan hormat", which means With Respect (I automatically sign my emails Sincere / Dengan hormat, then my name below... That's... an interesting way to mix names up)  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:22, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• You'd hope they know better... But Nederlands-Indie, that's a while ago. BTW, have you been reading F. Springer at all? Drmies (talk) 14:28, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• No, I've honestly never heard of the gentleman. The only Dutchman I've read recently is Teeuw.  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:57, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Help

It is taking every fiber in me to not block this person on site. [4] If you feel the same as I do, that this is gross incivility and worthy of a block, I would welcome it. As I have commented there, I'm thinking I should refrain from blocking even though it is clearly warranted, imho. (not sure if this is "involved" to that degree) If I'm being unreasonable or irrational here, then I would ask your guidance. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 14:43, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Wow...that's...just...wow. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 14:55, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Had I not already commented, and considering their previous block log, a 30 day block would have come instantly. I almost blocked for the first comment, but the good faith side of me hoped that a terse outside voice would shake some reason into them. I was wrong. Now I'm not sure if I'm "too involved" to make the block, so deferring to Drmies, or any other passing soul with a mop. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 14:57, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

(ec) Sorry, I don't have one, nor would I ever want to, but I will watch you now and may ask you also for help if needed in this community where decisions are hate based, so we are advised. Passing soul --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:12, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• I wouldn't block for that, sorry. I think Meowy's comments aren't friendly or constructive, but I wouldn't call them civility violations. WP walks a fine line sometimes between encyclopedia and social network (as evidenced on this very page). I don't have a problem with the rather public announcement on Wesley's page, I don't know how I would cope with such a loss and I might well choose the same route, but it's also still an editor's talk page and thus public. I wouldn't have asked for the removal of the post and doing so opens one up to criticism, especially if one is involved with some contentious debates. I wouldn't say that you're being unreasonable or irrational--but I wouldn't block for it, no. Perhaps some of the stalkers care to weigh in here. Ordinarily I'd post something about this at ANI, but this is not ordinary and I'm sure Wesley could do without more discussion and contention. Sorry, but I am of no help here; I draw the "gross incivility" line somewhere else though it is entirely possible for someone to see a personal attack in Meowy's remark. Drmies (talk) 15:02, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
• Writ Keeper's term, "callousness", is entirely appropriate. I've left a note for Meowy; in my opinion, that's as much as I can do. Sorry I don't feel the same way, Drmies (talk) 15:07, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
  • I was trying to avoid ANI. I didn't find the comments as an attack as much as grossly incivil, which is covered under our policy as "Incivility consists of one of more of the following behaviors: personal attacks, rudeness, disrespectful comments, and aggressive behaviours---when such behavior disrupts the project and leads to unproductive stressors and conflict. " and I feel it clearly falls into this definition. I respect your opinion if you don't, but would have to disagree with you, based on my reading of WP:CIVIL and the sum of the two comments. That I would (and did a few months ago) deal with my loss in a different way isn't particularly material in this instance, in my opinion. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 15:09, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• (edit conflict) I agree with Drmies. Meowy's comments are insensitive, condescending, and uncalled for, but they don't constitute a personal attack and don't justify a block for any other reason.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:10, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• The civility policy is very broad and therefore leaves a lot of room for interpretation. I wouldn't apply it in this instance, although I can understand why you might want to.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:13, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• It's certainly disrespectful and, again, other admins may find it disrespectful enough to block. Avoiding ANI is a good idea. You can click on Recent changes and see if there's an admin on call that you know to ask their opinion. BTW, "involved" means lots of things. You and Meowy aren't butting heads on some article (I think), so you're not involved in that capacity. If your judgment is that this crosses the line, then make the call and be prepared for scrutiny--but this is certainly not a case where you'd be completely out of line. Again, in my opinion. Drmies (talk) 15:16, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
• As I am not willing to "shop" my concerns, I will just have to see if someone else sees it differently here. I respect both of your opinions, even if I strongly disagree. I understand that my own personal experiences color my perspective (which is part of why I'm not acting) but I still feel this clearly crosses the line, and had I stumbled across it completely uninvolved, odds are very high that I would have taken unilateral action. When discussing content of an article, I am very tolerant, but not when comments get personal and cross the line into being intentionally hurtful just for the sake of being intentionally hurtful. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 15:21, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• And to be clear, I know a few admins who would have blocked without much question. I was truly seeking guidance, not just compliance with my wishes. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 15:22, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• Well, I don't know how much of WP:BLOCK#NOTPUNITIVE is actually followed, but it would seem to me that a 30 day block would be well across the line. While I stand by my assertion that Meowy is being astonishingly, horribly unsympathetic, I don't know that it's really blockable; using family tragedy (real or imagined) as an excuse to avoid scrutiny is not an unknown tactic on the Internet (although I can't imagine that that's what Wesley is doing). Certainly a block longer than a day or two would cease to be preventative, imo. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 15:29, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• Normally, I would agree, except a look at their long block long is what made me think that the standard 72 hour block may or may not be sufficient. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 15:32, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• Writ Keeper makes a good point. Is further disruption to be expected? Also, I'm not sure that 72 hours is a standard. Drmies (talk) 15:35, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• I'm feeling less generous than my usual self today. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 15:51, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for noticing that and acting accordingly. I've only just seen Meowy's response, and as upset as it made me, I don't think there is anything that I/we can do in all honesty. Perhaps he's right, that I shouldn't notify people here of the news; but at the time I was in mid-conversation with people, and felt it was appropriate to inform people so everyone understood if I started to sound irrational or not "quite with it" from that moment onwards. My editing is at a minimal and all I have done to take my mind off things when I'm not busy organising and comforting/informing family and close friends, is to just read through past contributions. It is helping if I'm being honest, and gives me something else to focus on at this awkward time. Wesley☀Mouse 17:38, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• Understood. Thanks for your note, and take of yourself and yours. Our thoughts are with you, I'm pretty sure. Drmies (talk) 17:40, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• Just to be clear, there is no way that Meowy's comments are "right". Indeed, they are wrong on so many levels. There's also absolutely nothing wrong with what you did. I don't know you but I still vividly remember when I lost my mother, and I offer my sincerest sympathies.--Bbb23 (talk) 21:23, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Do you know what, after seeing this comment from Aregkan, I'm starting to sway towards supporting Dennis Brown's previous proposal. Saying one thing and letting it drop is one thing - but to say something and then follow it up with something even more accusative is even worse. Slap their hands, put them in the stocks and throw rotten veg - I don't care - but get'em told. If it was anyone else, I'm sure they'd be treated with some form of punishment - so why should they get away with it? Wesley☀Mouse 22:43, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

DYK

Thanks for your help with my DYK nomination. Finding page numbers seems to be a good idea as I found an error! I hope the article is okay now. Secretlondon (talk) 17:09, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

• Responded there. One more minor issue. Drmies (talk) 17:51, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Fixed it! Secretlondon (talk) 18:27, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

The Knot (company)

Can you take another look? Cheers. SmartSE (talk) 20:47, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

I ended up using IAR for the first time and doing it myself. SmartSE (talk) 21:14, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Ha, I went to your talk page first after coming back from dinner. Don't worry about anything; you did the right thing. Drmies (talk) 00:08, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Doc. Hope your dinner was as good as my lunch today of bone marrow and triple cooked chips ;) SmartSE (talk) 23:26, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

? Drmies (talk) 23:31, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Triple cooked chips - try them they're immense! SmartSE (talk) 23:35, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Don't get smart with me, SE. The last time I learned something new about potatoes was--well, actually, this morning, in Cook's Country, a recipe for potato chip cookies. But I'm straying! Tell me about the bone marrow. Please? Drmies (talk) 23:50, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Wow - I'd never heard of them! Bet you've never had a chocolate new potato though. Other than Bone marrow#Food there's not much more I know... I'd forgotten about it being on the menu by the time the food came but it was quite interesting - meaty jelly really. The fact that it was deep fat fried made it very tasty though! SmartSE (talk) 14:27, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

That looks spectacular, SmartSE, I have to say. Drmies (talk) 14:44, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Cute (Japanese band)

Hi Drmies,

Just thought I'd make you aware that there have been further developments at the above named article talk page. The main editor involved has got users from Portal:Japan, as well as users who are members from both Japanese Wikipedia and English Wikipedia. Seems that they are still arguing over the inclusion of adding a multitude of YouTube links, and appear to be siding with Moscowconntion, in that he was right to add a full video discography to every article. I was going to attempt to comment, but still not at 100% focus level. Would you be so kind as to glance over there, and add a bit of decorum to proceedings. Thanks Wesley☀Mouse 12:36, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

• I don't often get accused of having decorum, but I'll give it a shot. ;) Drmies (talk) 13:24, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Of course you have decorum. You're very dignified in your behavior and speech. And you most certainly have orderliness. So yes, I'd say you're high up there on the list of people with decorum :-) Wesley☀Mouse 13:41, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
    • You know Ryulong is a former admin with almost twice as many edits as me and should be listened to. He's been going back and forth a bit and I don't agree with edits such as this one, though he did go back and remove the videos. But he left the plethora of external links. I'm not going to go back and undo that for all those articles since I have better things to do with my time. I'll tell Mrs. Drmies what you said about dignity--she'll laugh, no doubt, but thank you anyway. Take care Wesley, Drmies (talk) 13:52, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
      • If I may, the issues may be 1. copy vio, and 2. how much information is appropriate for inclusion in each article. The YouTube links direct to videos that appear to have been uploaded by the band, however, research concerning their legal ownership (as opposed to ownership by a label) should be verified. Concerning quantities of information, my thoughts are that the main discography should include it all. If there are editors who are compiling and verifying the lists, it may be the case where Wikipedia becomes the only complete and accurate account of the band's works. In my experience, allmusic and other similar databases lack significant quantities of information. Allmusic just does not have the staff to handle the massive job. In fact, I became so frustrated with the databases that I emailed allmusic, and I am now receiving updates from them. I think that if adequate attention is paid to these lists (with good references provided), Wikipedia can ultimately stand above the online database organizations for both completeness and accuracy. - maybe a bit of a challenge, but do-able in my opinion. On articles where the specific subject text could be dwarfed by the complete discography, it may be argued that the inclusion of the complete discography, in that case, would divert focus away from the subject matter specific to the article .Doc2234 (talk) 14:53, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

The Tireless Administrator Who's Never had a Maine Lobster Roll Award

		The Tireless Administrator Who's Never had a Maine Lobster Roll Award
		Incentive to visit New England. 71.241.200.94 (talk) 17:52, 15 May 2012 (UTC)]]

• That looks delicious, thanks. Can I bring the family? And the Sadiehound? Drmies (talk) 19:09, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
  • There's actually a tourist trap restaurant--tour buses welcome--outside of Bath that advertises a $50 version, big enough to feed the family. 71.241.200.94 (talk) 20:08, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
    • Do they have McLobsters too? --kelapstick^(bainuu) 22:01, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
      • Owing to a momentary lack of discernment, I once had one. 71.241.200.94 (talk) 23:27, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
        • K, can you box up the roll like you did the donut? Thanks. 99/71, I got you beat re:lack of discernment--I once believed the NYT-approved hype about the McRib and ate one. And once I sank to an all-time low and had a...I can't say it. Have you met Kelapstick, by the way? Best Canadian ever, after Neil Young of course. Drmies (talk) 23:30, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
          •  DoneI boxed up the award for you Doc, hopefully no traces of Doughnut of Doom are left in the roll, because that could be fatal. Last I recall, the good doctor had never eaten lobster, let alone in a tasty roll format. The McLobster was adequate when I had one, but I would still rather buy a whole lobster and roll it myself. If we are back, when you go to New England, you will have to stop by Nova Scotia, although unfortunately the Ferry doesn't run from Yarmouth to Maine anymore, so it will have to be overland, and of course Sadiedog is invited. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 23:37, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

<--Ty ty. I have had a piece of a lobster tail, once, at a disastrous dinner party--the cook, who had bought one lobster tail for himself at a somewhat communal grill party, was drunk and after giving me a little taste dropped the f***ing tail in the mud. Serves him right--and his girl married someone else as well. I had lobster claws in a pasta cream youknowwhat kind of dish; not great. I can't wait for 99 to show me how to properly hold and bite some real lobster thing hmmmmm time for dinner. Drmies (talk) 23:55, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

• On Sunday night we had dinner at one of our favorite restaurants in mid-coast Maine; the lobster shell was so soft--seems to be a spring phenomenon--that no instruments were required to break it apart. As far as taking leave of gastronomic judgement, desert this evening was an unmitigated holocaust of soft, frozen crap. For which folks of our age will pay dearly. 71.241.200.94 (talk) 00:13, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

• I've had lobster all over the world, including New England, and including lobster rolls. One of my favorites is a Chinese dish with lobster (in the shell) in a black bean sauce with red bell pepper and green chilis. Like eating lobster with spicy candy.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:21, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Bellesiles

You may be interested in Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Lou Sander. Regards, --92.6.200.56 (talk) 20:43, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

• Nah, thanks, but I'm out of my league there. I'm interested in the article, not so much in the sideshow. I'm glad you and others are on the case. Drmies (talk) 22:20, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Article ideas

First, ever been to Walt Disney World? Was thinking of Walt Disney World turkey leg. If you saw them, you would know they are notable. Second is Lego tires. Did you know Lego is one of, if not the, largest tire manufacturers in the world? --kelapstick^(bainuu) 22:02, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

The Donut of Doom

		Donut of DOOM
		Bgwhite has presented you with the Donut of DOOM. Warning, side effects include death, more death, even more death and increased libido Bon appetit! Spread the smell of DOOM and add your Doom results. Please eat responsibly.

Wikipedia novice with interest in editing article on Savourna Stevenson

Many thanks for your passing comments on Bbb23's talk page. I am completely new to Wikipedia and realize I need to get up to speed on the requirements for writing style, format and citations for an article. I already began editing the Savourna Stevenson article, essentially trying to copy the existing style and format of what was already there ... but have quickly been reprimanded for my lack of encyclopedic language and had Bbb23 revert it back to before my attempts at editing. So, I must do more homework and start again ... and I think I need all the help and advice I can get!

Having looked more closely at Wikipedia policies and other WP articles I can see that I need to start by being absolutely neutral and without personal opinion. However, when it comes to the strict principles of citations, primary & secondary sources and 'no original research', I quickly find that I have some paradoxical difficulties ...

I have recently up-dated the content of Savourna Stevenson's own website and so currently have access to a comprehensive archive of all her recordings, collaborations, commissions, articles, interviews, reviews, videos, music scores, etc, etc, for the last 30 years. She brought to my attention that some members of the press are inclined to pick up their background information for newspaper articles from Wikipedia and that this is irritating becaues her Wikipedia article is currently so inaccurate and badly researched.

Although I hope I could put together a more accurate Wikipedia article ( than the current one ) with citations from press articles taken from reputable newpapers and magazines from the last 30 years, I am left with the dilema that I have some of the most relevant information sitting on the desk in from of me, but this information is nowhere to be found within a suitable citation!? Take for example a simple list like a discography ... which may not have been printed in any previous article or book, but I actually have a copy of every recording ever made by Savourna Stevenson on my desk so that I can check the dates and the details? Perhaps I even have a reputable article which lists a discography, but gets it wrong ... which then is the correct and accurate information to list in the Wikipedia article? As must be the case with many biographies of living persons on Wikipedia, there may be few or no respected books already published on the subject - so does this mean that there should be no Wikipedia article at all for those people?

I am quite sure it is essential that disputed information, known to be incorrect, is always removed from Wikipedia ... but if only absolutely 100% verifiable information was listed, then Wikipedia would be almost without articles!

I would be most interested to get your comments on this ... and from any other more experienced Wikipedia editors before I have another look at the Savourna Stevenson article.

With thanks Frasergord (talk) 22:23, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

In addition to your learning curve, you have a conflict of interest. That doesn't mean that you can't contribute to the Stevenson article, but it does mean you have to proceed that much more cautiously. If you stick to having other editors review your contributions, either in your sandbox or suggestions on the Stevenson article, that should work, but do read the COI guideline.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:34, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for that - I shall pay special attention to my conflict of interest, in addition to my other areas of inexperience, and will ensure that I declare this COI. My principle concern is that the Wikipedia article should become factual/accurate and I will happily take advice from other editors regarding neutrality.

As a helpful contribution to my learning curve, can you please suggest two or three ideal examples of Wikipedia articles which I can study ... which contain similar biographies of living persons/musicians, not working within an obvious mainstream category, who have work extending back over 30 years and more. I realize that my first poor attempts at editing were largely based on the existing content/format/lack of citation of the current Stevenson article ... and I should obviously be using a more ideal article as my starting template. With thanks again for your help. Frasergord (talk) 09:28, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

I wrote Joan Jeanrenaud a couple of years ago, but it's very stubby. Perhaps others have better examples. Drmies (talk) 14:09, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Request

Would you mind indef semi-protecting this page, please? Thanks! :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:08, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

• Semi is cheap, but indef is not. That's $20, pal. Drmies (talk) 01:10, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
  • I only have a nickle! :( Actually, that's a lie, I have $0.00 in my bank account at the moment. I can honestly say I am broke. :) If you have a spare couple minutes, would you mind going through my userspace and the userspace of my talk page and check and make sure there aren't any pages that are unprotected. If there are, please indef semi-protect those as well. Thanks. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:12, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
    • Homer, you got maybe a hundred subpages. Sorry, but I'm not going to go through and check those. Why not bring them to me if there are problems, or report the ones that aren't protected yet. Drmies (talk) 03:00, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
      • Sorry for the delay in response, just got done watching the season finales of NCIS, NCIS: Los Angeles, and Hawaii Five-0. All were awesome. :) I will see which ones aren't protected and bring them to you, but it might be tomorrow. I am surprised I have that many subpages. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 07:26, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
        • Get that stuff out of here, Homer: I'm a Law and Order kinda gal. Yes, you have a ton of pages! I'll be glad to help out on, ahem, a more or less individual basis. Drmies (talk) 14:07, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Don't want to editwar over

File:Bronson 1973.jpg

Drmies taking a break from editing.

this. If you agree with the reinsertion I'll drop it. Otherwise can you make your views known? ^Bongo_matic 02:36, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

• I have, thank you. ;) Drmies (talk) 02:55, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
  • You missed this. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 03:08, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
    • Or you're stricter than me! Or I got one of these Wikimedia error messages and had to redo my edit. Or I'm watching Death Wish II and you better watch the fuck out before I go all Charles Bronson on your ass. Drmies (talk) 03:13, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
      • While you were sleeping, the most important article on Wikipedia was created. Lego tires have arrived!--kelapstick^(bainuu) 08:41, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
        • Sp., for those of us who speak English English. - Sitush (talk) 09:02, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
          • Much thanks Sitush, I did neglect to create the redirect. I had considered writing it tyre from the start, it is quite a nuisance when looking for sources to have to look for multiple spellings of what should be a fairly simple word. You may be interested to see my linguistic confusion userbox, sometimes I mix one sentence with Canadian, US, and Australian spellings. Not always intentionally. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 09:13, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
            • Try searching for sources relating to India subjects, where transliteration of numerous Indic scripts etc also comes into play. It sometimes appears as if when a word has more than a single letter there will be at least one alternate spelling. - Sitush (talk) 09:39, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
              • Going from Mongolian is a disaster as well, see Ulan Bator, vs. Ulaanbaatar, or Chinggis Khaan International Airport which is named after Genghis Khan?--kelapstick^(bainuu) 09:50, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

<--Haha, I did a DYK character count and then checked your recent contributions. That's going to be a heavy hitter, no doubt. Drmies (talk) 13:49, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

• OK, I tweaked that brilliant article a little bit and I hope you don't mind but I called in the Danish cavalry, at User_talk:Favonian#Congratulations.21, for possible additional sources. We wouldn't want to be just bilingual in that article; we're showcasing our stuff to the world. Well done K! Drmies (talk) 14:06, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

• What's this? You added a comma? For shame...--kelapstick^(bainuu) 14:07, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

• I seriously don't think that anyone was holding a gun to kids heads forcing them to make Lego tires. They had the option of not having tires, which would be an ineffective car. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 02:00, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

• That's another matter, kelapstick. I can't allow for that kind of screwing around, and you should know that it takes an MF to pick nits with me on commas. Hey, I'm kind of saddened Favonian didn't dig up anything. I talked about to you today--my brother in law is going up to Idaho to work on a federal project where they're restoring some river or area polluted by mining (for silver and other metals). Apparently the mining company is paying for it, in the hundreds of millions. I asked him for company names but didn't recognize them from your articles. It has to be close to Washington. Any ideas? Drmies (talk) 02:08, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

• Coeur d'Alene Mines? They are pretty big in potato country, and deal in silver in that area if I recall.--kelapstick^(bainuu) 02:15, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

• Or maybe Bunker Hill Mine and Smelting Complex. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 00:26, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

• You were right the first time: Coeur d'Alene. Drmies (talk) 01:19, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

• What do I win? --kelapstick^(bainuu) 01:32, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

JSTOR

Can you see this? If so, could you please grab a copy for me? I've used the visible portion for a new article concerning the wonderfully-named Jervoise Athelstane Baines. There appear to be several more pages, and in any case I do not trust abstracts or partial views! - Sitush (talk) 08:59, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and there might be something more than just a name-check here also. Please, pretty please. - Sitush (talk) 09:08, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Voila: 1 and 2. The first link may not work... if it doesn't drop me an email and I'll forward it to you the old fashioned way. SmartSE (talk) 12:21, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Woah, thanks SmartSE. Both work just fine. I've been hammering WP:RX this last week and thought that I'd best give the folks there a rest in a situation where there was an alternative. - Sitush (talk) 12:28, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks SmartSE--that's nice of you. Did you explain bone marrow, above? I haven't looked yet but I will. That's interesting. Drmies (talk) 13:44, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Looking for Help

Hi Drmies, a warm welcome and appreciation for checking me regarding neutral view point and copyright infringement issue which are necessary for credibility of Wikipedia articles. I respect ur commitment towards Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. I admire ur quick action in this regard.

Now I understand that external websites should not be used as a source of sentences and should be written in my own words. This was my first article and I could not stand by the policies and guidelines strictly. As a result, the article was deleted. I worked hard in collecting references and other evidences for the article entitled “Dinesh Kumar Mani”. I studied seventeen newspapers’ reports on him out of which nine I’ve quoted as inline citations. I also quoted pages from his book as references.

I need ur help in reinstatement of the article maintaining decorum of Wikipedia. Maharathi (talk) 09:13, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)Hey, Maharathi, articles that have been deleted as G12 generally cannot be restored. A copyright violation is a copyright violation, whether it's in the main article space or as a draft in your user space. Your best bet at this point is to rewrite it from scratch, being very careful to avoid plagiarism (and also keep in mind WP:CLOSEPARAPHRASE; just changing a few words in each sentence is not enough to clear a copyright violation). Copyright violations are one of the thigns that Wikipedia can actually get in trouble for, so it's necessary to take an extremely dim view of it. Thanks, and good luck with the article! Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 10:15, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

• I'm curious if it would be helpful to userfy only the list of references for them. I don't know the article name or I likely would have. This part isn't a copyvio and would help them rebuild the article without starting from scratch. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 11:36, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

• Ah, answered my own question, saw the article name, went and looked at the deleted version and it is doubtful the ref list would be helpful. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 11:40, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

• Responded on your talk page. Drmies (talk) 13:43, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Hotel Polen fire

You may be interested in this documentary by Andere Tijden which aired three days ago on Dutch television to remember the 35th anniversary of the fire.

BTW I had put the Dutch language article nl:Brand in Hotel Polen on the main page of Dutch Wikipedia as the article of the day for 9 May, the day of the anniversary (much easier than getting a FA on enwp: just be bold and do it. ^^). SpeakFree 19:15, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

• Good for you, SpeakFree! Bold is the way to go. I'll have a look. Drmies (talk) 19:16, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
  • After 35 years he got his passport back--that's remarkable. Drmies (talk) 19:40, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Ongelofelijk zeg. Weet je, ik wou dit eigenlijk helemaal niet zien! Drmies (talk) 19:59, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Speedy Deletion of Izumi Tabata

The deletion logs say you deleted an article of mine nominated for speedy deletion. The criterion under which the article was deleted was A7: "does not indicate why its subject is important or significant" which "does not apply to any article that makes any credible claim of significance or importance". But the article did make a claim about why the subject of the article was significant or important (specifically, that the individual in question created a popular (still the subject of group exercise classes, etc.) method of high-intensity interval training, discussed at length in the article on that subject). The main reason I created the article was that I searched for "Tabata method" on Wikipedia hoping to find information about the researcher who pioneered the method, only to find that the page that "Tabata Method" redirected to didn't even mention his given name (nor did the disambig page for "Tabata" list the person I was looking for). As a result, I searched for the information I was looking for and created the stub, only to find it deleted days later under criteria that, IMO, pretty clearly don't apply. I request that you reconsider your decision. --L33tminion (talk) 19:55, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

• I had no reason to believe that the "Tabata Method" was important one way or another, and even if you had linked to the article it wouldn't have added much to the subject of your article. The best way to start an article is with independent, reliable sources that verify information in the article--not a "researcher profile" at the person's employer's website. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 01:29, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

A cup of coffee for you!

It's too early here to drink so have this coffee with me in thanks for copyediting Lego tires. kelapstick(bainuu) 00:01, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Alternate accounts

Did I handle the alternate account issue properly? See User:KualaLumpur12 and User:DragonGirl2012. Anything more I should do at the moment? Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:27, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

• Hmm, strange. I think Wikipedia:Alternate account is quite clear, and see WP:SOCK#LEGIT and WP:SOCK#NOTIFY. You did the notification part, but I don't yet see the legitimacy. I think they should pick one; the other can be blocked and redirected. If I'm missing something, blame the four or five delicious beers I had tonight. Drmies (talk) 01:53, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

• No, you're not missing anything, and I read the relevant policy, but I wanted to give them a chance to explain themselves, which they haven't done. Of course, I can't block them, so what would be the best forum to take this to? There's no obvious evidence of illegitimacy, so I don't believe WP:SPI would be right.--Bbb23 (talk) 03:58, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

• Why can't you block them? :) There's no rush; we (they) won't break the wiki. Alert both of them on their talk pages so they can't say "I didn't see it". Point out that there is evidence (the goof about the template) and more evidence (the articles they're editing are obviously in the same field). If no answer is forthcoming there is reason to suspect meating. Illegitimacy--Yoo's article is a contentious BLP, and the same applies to the Guantanamo articles, so the avoidance of scrutiny is not a crazy suggestion. Without a plausible answer I think you should probably take this to SPI. But there may be better advice in the meantime from smarter people. Notify, and give it a day or two. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 04:21, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

• One of the things I've learned is there's generally no rush to correct problems at Wikipedia. Too many editors (including experienced ones) think they MUST act quickly or the world will come tumbling down. A collateral benefit of not rushing is reduced stress levels. Anyway, I've posted messages on the Talk pages of both accounts. We'll see what happens. Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 10:45, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

• Still no response, and no edits. Let's wait another day. Maybe it's a good idea to take it to ANI anyway. Drmies (talk) 22:58, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

• I dunno, I watch them every day, so it's unlikely they'll do much harm. Having been "found out", they may even be intentionally staying away. However, I don't feel like watching them indefinitely, so certainly by the end of the upcoming weekend, I'll take some action. I thought your last tentative recommendation was SPI, not ANI.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:18, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

• If their answer wasn't plausible, yes. ANI may not be a bad idea anyway. You and I, as smart as we are (!) don't know everything. My alternate accounts are ArbCom approved (well, the legitimate ones anyway) and I doubt that this happened here, but of course the "alternate" part is based on interpretation, not on disclosure. Drmies (talk) 03:41, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

• No response from our friend(s), so I made a command decision and opened a report at SPI. It may not be a violation of our policy on sock puppetry, but it's the board with the most expertise on this sort of thing, so it seemed logical to go there.--Bbb23 (talk) 13:59, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

• Wow, my report sort of exploded beyond anything I had contemplated. See it here.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:50, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Holy shit! Drmies (talk) 02:32, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Odd edit timing

Just to note the creation of this redirect: WP:POLICYPRICK that was added to this essay after this ANI, very recently. Is this the "stepping up" User:Dennis Brown is referring? Thoughts?--Amadscientist (talk) 01:27, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

• Sorry, no, I don't have any thoughts on that. Drmies (talk) 01:45, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
  • I've sent WP:POLICYPRICK to RFD [5]. I also have doubts about WP:PETTIFOGG, the other "new" redirect. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 23:31, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Ondskan finns mitt ibland oss/Evil is among us

Kära Drmies, jag såg i din profil att du är svensktalande och då kändes det naturligt att komponera detta brevet på svenska. Anledningen till varför jag skriver till dig är för att varna dig för en ond varelse som du verkar ha en relation till. Denna nekromantiker, denna satans jävel som inte för nämnas vid hans riktiga namn, förgiftar människors själ genom att få dem att tro att han är god och rättfärdig men när du minst anar det, så hugger han till! Men nej, god är han inte, utan det du ser i honom är en illusion, en hägring! Han förfogar över ett gäng kreaturer som följer hans kommando och vars vilja de delar med Han-som-inte-får-nämnas-vid-namn, och denna ambition som de har är att stänga ut ljuset och härska över oss alla i djävulens tjänst. Men det finns fortfarande hopp! Med min hjälp kan vi kuratera denna ondskan, om inte från hela Wikipedia riket, så åtminstone från denna sida. Vad säger du om det? --Ondskan2 (talk) 12:26, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

• Kära Ondskan, tack för ditt meddelande, men de rykten om mig och Ann Coulter (som inte är en människa, tror jag) är inte sant. Såvitt jag vet träffade vi bara en gång, oavsikligt. Jag är en lyckligt gift man, snälla berätta inte Mrs Drmies av dessa rykten. Lycka till på din strävan att utrota det onda. Tack så mycket, Drmies (talk) 14:01, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Nej, jag syftade inte på Coulter (men jag känner till en annan demon som har träffat henne). Den jag syftar på har lämnat sina fingeravtryck på denna diskussionsida och du har valt att belöna honom. Bara så du vet, han är inte den du tror han är. Han är inte ens från det land som han har valt att representera, utan från ett grannland vars folk har destruktiva tendenser. Jag vill inte säga mer. Risken är stor att han kommer lukta sig till min närvaro, eftersom min goda natur avbildas i en aura. --Ondskan2 (talk) 14:56, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Jag förstår perfekt. Tack för varningen. Drmies (talk) 15:12, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you

Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 22:55, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

• Oh, I think we all know where this is headed. Drmies (talk) 22:56, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
  • No, no, I'm not going to ask you for a favor, I don't need to borrow the car, I'm covered til pay day, I didn't break the vase, etc. Sometimes it is just good to say "Thank you" to someone who deserves it, with no strings attached. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 23:17, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
    • You don't want to borrow Drmies' car anyway, although if you are nice to him, he will let you use his pool. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 23:26, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
      • Cool. I hear he plays guitar. I have a tasty Laney half stack, 50 watts, 4x10s, I could bring over with the Tele and some North Carolina moonshine. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 23:33, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
        • 4x10? interesting. Sure, bring it on. And there's nothing wrong with my car, or with the van--which has a pretty cool stereo. BTW, Dennis, I possibly completely misunderstood you, and you certainly misunderstood me. "Where this is headed" is an indef block. Ha! Drmies (talk) 02:01, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
          • Ah, I actually posted this before I saw your "view". It was more about participating there in general, and offering an ear the other day when I was having a man period and got upset over someone's insensitivity. Kick me when I'm down, I'll get over it. Kick someone else like that, it is a different story. I'm funny that way. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 02:38, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
          • Oh, and as a matter of enforceable procedure, does your view need to be copied down into the Proposed Solution area? The whole event seems farcical to me, utter chaos with no leadership. JJB seems like a nice enough guy, but his interpretations on my talk page and jumping to Agents defense makes me think he has a strong bias to keep the articles and it is coloring his opinions and focus at the RFC/U. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 02:55, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
            • Hey, don't make the same mistake, divvying up editors by their stance on article content. I don't know--I guess so. I'll go see what that mess looks like. Drmies (talk) 02:58, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
              • Oh no, I'm not grouping here. Like I said, he seems like a nice guy and fairly well versed in policy, doesn't seem disruptive at all. I'm just not persuaded by his arguments which seem to be drawing a conclusion, then finding a away to force a round policy into a square hole. I have biases as well, I just try to avoid those topics. The idea of using WP:SUMMARY to prove that every stand alone article doesn't need to prove it is notable, I thought that was creative. Unsound, but creative. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 11:01, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
• Continuing, and deferring to your greater experience, what and when is the next step, as this farce of an RFC/U appears to be going nowhere. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 15:49, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

  Elen was kind enough to block one sockpuppet that was flushed out in the affair. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 14:35, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Student migration

Student migration (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

You were a migrating student. Whose thesis do you think this was?--Bbb23 (talk) 00:08, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

• I don't know if I saw that before, or another very much like that. That whole thing should be cut to shreds and merged with International student. Drmies (talk) 01:58, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

More fun from vacationland

If you have the time....could you take a look at the report I filed here [6]? It's got all the ingredients that make for sexy Wikipedia disputes: edit warring, multiple accounts used to avoid a block, and an agenda of reverting sourced content from several articles. The talk page at the primary article suggests a long term disagreement, but this ain't the way to resolve it. Thanks in advance. Today I enjoyed a Hennepin. Nice brew. 71.241.198.86 (talk) 00:46, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't see how you can call it a vacation when you're looking at controversial articles like this one and taking it to WP:DRN. Not my idea of a vacation, anyway. I reverted the IP on the article back to the "status quo". In theory, he should be blocked for edit-warring if he does anything further. He's probably already violated it, but I didn't closely go over the reverts, warning, etc., to feel comfortable filing a report. Besides, reverting is a helluva lot easier than filing a report.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:24, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Between sessions of eating, sleeping, painting, and gazing alternately at one's love, ocean landscapes, and favorite dogs, one returns to the great hubbub of Wikipedia to confirm that the world at large remains dysfunctional. If I kept reverting I'd be guilty of edit warring, so I file a report in hopes of a more effective resolution. Thanks for helping, though questions linger: What to make of apparent full-time altruists like you and Drmies, and when do you vacation? 71.241.198.86 (talk) 01:44, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Bbb, get your own IP, dude. I don't do altruism: I am here to find confirmation that my life isn't completely wasted. Speaking of wasted, I had a half a dozen delicious beers last night, including an American saison. I'm planning a tripel tasting party and am collecting beers for it. Let's see...I have Chimay Cinq Cents, Witkap Tripel, Delirium Tremens, St. Feuillien, Tripel Karmeliet, and a Triple Imperial from Brasserie des Rocs. My colleague brought me an American tripel, from The Bruery. I need a couple more, I think. Drmies (talk) 02:28, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

That's twice in one day someone's called me dude. You must spend too much time hob-nobbing with your students. And he was my IP before he was yours. We clearly need to execute an IP custody agreement. I'll draft it and send it to you. Please sign it right after you've imbibed all your collected beers.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:54, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Dudes, please don't argue over sponsorship of the IP; hell, every time I sit down I'm a different account, and tomorrow I'm back home, a bit heavier from food and drink, so say goodbye to the 72 prefix. 71.241.196.71 (talk) 00:20, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

3x. I hereby relinquish custody to Drmies.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:31, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Have you tried the Chimay Cinquante Cents? ^Bongo_matic 02:43, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

<--Oh, 99/71, I looked at the wrong dispute and closed the Obama/Bush/Reagan one. Drmies (talk) 03:41, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

While inexpensive, this is not a very effective means of gun control.

• As for the flag, it's taken care of. That wasn't all that sexy, IP--perhaps at your age ... let me not finish that sentence. I'm having yet another delicious Delirium Tremens, and I'm beginning to see why it won all those medals. Enjoy your lobster omelet tomorrow. I have emergency training, where we will learn how to handle idiots with guns in classrooms--the obvious answer is don't sell guns like it's candy, but hey, no one asked me. Drmies (talk) 04:16, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
  • When you propose your solution be sure to reference the hierarchy of hazard control, in order of effectiveness:
    1. Elimination - Don't sell guns like candy
    2. Substitution - Replace students with guns with students without guns
    3. Engineering - Put professors behind bullet-proof glass
    4. Administrative - Hang "No Guns!" signs
    5. Personal protective equipment - Give all professors and students bullet-proof vests.

See, health and safety is fun! --kelapstick^(bainuu) 04:24, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll be sure to bring that up--though common sense is frowned upon. Having students sign disclaimers that they won't shoot their teachers and fellow students it the most positive outcome I could hope for. Drmies (talk) 04:36, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

What--curtail the students' constitutional right to evaluate their courses via the discharge of small arms? Have we really become so overprotective of our effete educators? The answer, as we all know, is to equip teachers with bigger and more rapid-firing weaponry. Although perhaps that's not the best idea after all, given the fondness some of us have for exotic ales. Guns and booze don't mix. Unless you're driving. 71.241.198.86 (talk) 09:37, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Suggested apparel and stance for Drmies whilst before a class--it's worked for me. 71.241.198.86 (talk) 10:15, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

By the way, congratulations! I hear great things are coming your way. Might explain your recent obsessions, nutwise. 71.241.198.86 (talk) 09:44, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. That's a really cool photo, by the way. Drmies (talk) 00:48, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Could you take a look at this?

[7] Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:22, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Nevermind, he answered me - I thought he was ignoring my request. I don't think he's necessarily right, but categorizers are a weird breed and I often don't get their thinking. It's not worth hassling about. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:29, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

You being a Yankee and all, perhaps you appreciate my rigorous sourcing on The Hamptons (Seinfeld). Drmies (talk) 04:38, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Goal

I'm at #1010 in the List of Wikipedians by number of edits. That's too close to the top thousand without actually being in the top 1k. LadyofShalott 05:08, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

• Get to work, Lady. I'm too close to 100 not to try for that but it's a war of attrition. You know there are editors who (I think) make a point of doing every single little edit individually... Drmies (talk) 05:15, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

• There is that. There's also semi-automation, used by people we know and worship. LadyofShalott 14:00, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

• Well, I certainly would not know who that may be.... Note: I've been using AWB less than I used to. I just checked my last 200 edits, and about 65 were AWB.

  BTW, everybody here's actually at least one slot higher on the List than they think they are, because at least one bot, Helpful Pixie Bot, erroneously made it onto the list. And now for a patented Mandarax tangent. I found Helpful Pixie Bot to be decidedly unhelpful. About 90% of my watchlist every single day was filled with edits by this annoying bot doing absolutely nothing but adding dashes to ISBNs. In addition to the sheer pointlessness, these edits had the effect of obscuring lots of vandalism, as they were the only thing I, and I'm sure lots of other people, saw on their watchlists. I'm glad it must've finally finished this odious task, but there must have been hundreds of thousands of those utterly useless edits. Yes, yes, the edits were "correct" in that they put the ISBNs into their standardized form, but that's the kind of thing that should be added to AWB's general fixes and should only be done in conjunction with other, more constructive edits. The job would eventually get done, but in a nondisruptive way. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 07:08, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

• That's a useful note, Mandarax. Have you posted this somewhere? I don't even know what that bot is doing (besides what you just told me). Who operates it? The only bots whose work I know well are ClueBot and lowercase sigmabot, or something like that, which saves me from having to do something really tedious and time-consuming: adding protection templates to protected pages. Drmies (talk) 15:35, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
• Ah, I see. Well, that's a mess. Drmies (talk) 15:39, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

• Helpful Pixie Bot was Rich Farmbrough's, and since ArbCom just stopped him from using automation, it should no longer be a problem. I agree that it was very annoying have all those HPB edits in the watchlist. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:13, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

• I'm #2643. (hangs head in shame....) Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 15:55, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Eternally shamed #8191 Hasteur (talk) 16:04, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

• I'm #64, but I use AWB, so it doesn't count. FYI Mandarax, Helpful Pixie Bot has been banned and its user has been banned from running any bot... long story of which was too long for me to read entirely Bgwhite (talk) 07:55, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

• Of course it counts. (I hope my cmt earlier didn't sound like I thought those edits don't count. It's just one of the factors that can tend to increase one's edit count quickly. So can a series of edits in succession because you make typos and only catch them after hitting the save button. I do that all the time.) On a completely different note, I think the Monmouthpedia project is a neat idea. I really hate that capitalized A at the end though. It looks like a typo that needs to be corrected. LadyofShalott 13:30, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

• Yeah, good for them, though I don't like that typography earlier. One of their DYK nominations is a prayer without end, as the Dutch would say. Drmies (talk) 15:19, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

• Sorry, I wasn't implying anything you said Lady. To me personally, the number of my edits over-estimates what I have done. The only time I like to say my edit count is in a "who's bigger" contest. For a change, it's a time for me to actually have a chance in the contest. Bgwhite (talk) 22:20, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

• I didn't mean to kick a bot when it was down. I was just so glad to see it off my watchlist; I assumed it had stopped because it completed hyphenating all of the ISBNs on its list, but it looks like it was blocked before it was able to finish. I hope someone doesn't adopt the bot and start up that task again.

  I should qualify my previous statement: when I said that a huge percentage of my watchlist every single day was filled with those edits, I meant every single day for a week or however long it was going on. I haven't had a problem with most of the Pixie's edits, such as dating maintenance tags, but this was just unnecessarily overwhelming. I didn't read all of the block/desysop info, but it seems that these edits were not specifically mentioned at all. No, I didn't post about this elsewhere; I saw that it was an approved task (albeit six years ago), so the BAG must've somehow felt it was an acceptable thing to do. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 21:15, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

• Pixie bot was stopped because of the editor's actions and not the bots, at least that I'm aware of. I only brought it up because it was officially blocked in the past week and giving you a reason why you saw it stopped. The bot was named "Smackbot" until somewhat recently because the name brought up some controversy. The bot had over 50 different tasks, so it will take awhile for others to bring their replacement bots up. Femto Bot was another bot by the same person that was stopped. I wasn't implying anything else, just passing along some info. You can remove the bot's edits from the watchlist via My Preferences -> watchlist. Bgwhite (talk) 22:20, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

• I wouldn't want to hide all bot edits from my watchlist. Some of their edits are very helpful in spotting vandalism; for example, when I see a bot adding a bunch of interwikis, it's a pretty sure sign that someone has chopped off the bottom portion of an article. It's not seeing the bot on my watchlist that bothers me; it's knowing that many of those edits are camouflaging vandalism which would otherwise be showing as the top edit. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 22:43, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Ah, so that was Smackbot--I liked that name. I have no opinion, I guess, on the botter himself. The one I dislike is that Signbot, which makes it impossible to roll back vandalism to talk pages; I wish it would wait a minute. I imagine Pixie bot did lots of helpful things, but if something makes the Mandarax's work more difficult it should be shut down or adjusted. Drmies (talk) 14:10, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

The things you learn on this page. I didn't even know this list existed. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised because Wikipedia loves lists. The above discussion reminds me, as everything does, of an I Love Lucy episode where she becomes interested in numerology because of Ricky's new boss at the nightclub, and she, the boss, and Ethel sit in his office identifying themselves by number: "I'm a 3." "I'm a 5." "I'm a 7." (I don't remember the exact order, but then the boss says, "My, we are odd.")--Bbb23 (talk) 12:34, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

• I like this list: Wikipedia:List of Wikipedians by article count. And I'm odd, usually. Drmies (talk) 14:10, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Just want to let you know...

I changed my username: SpeakFree to Targaryen^{speak or forever remain silent} 20:45, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Leslie Daigle

Hey, I noticed you removed a large amount of content from this article. Would you be so kind as to explain why in a little greater detail in the RfC that's going on in regards to the content disputes over the article? pbp 22:25, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

• There's an RfC over that ridiculous bit of trivia? (Calling it "content" is an overstatement.) There's also a BLP thread; I just started it. Drmies (talk) 22:33, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
• I saw the RfC, yes, but it doesn't seem to be specifically about that "incident". RfC or not, that content is not acceptable in an encyclopedia. Drmies (talk) 22:38, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
  • The RfC is about a content dispute involving a number of things, and it somewhat morphed into that being including. Do me a major solid and repeat the "content is not acceptable" bit in the RfC section rather than the "Do You Know Who I Am?" section (which, IMO, shouldn't be in a different section anyway). pbp 22:52, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Sure--but you see why I pasted it there: because of the heading. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 23:16, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
    • The article should be AfD'd again, she definitely doesn't pass WP:POLITICIAN and I don't believe standing for statewide office is sufficient to pass WP:GNG. I'd nom it, but the procedure is so damn cumbersome, I almost never initiate AfDs. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:10, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
      • Thank you, Beyond My Ken, for suggesting what I've been thinking all along...I've done just that pbp 03:57, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

What exactly is your problem? Why are you only allowing positive pieces of information to appear on this page and no negative information (It's all sourced by the largest newspaper in the county, while the positive information is sourced from a city website!) You say the information is "trivial" and that the sources are not good enough. Please explain or I'm going to begin considering your edits vandalism. --Socalpolitik (talk) 03:45, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

• I'm not. I'll explain one more time: it's trivial and the sources aren't good enough. Also, you can't write worth a shit: "The incident was recently brought up at a debate" with a comma as a closing mark of punctuation. Oh, it was brought up at a debate--how exciting. Drmies (talk) 03:51, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
  • • Mies, please calm down. You're in a little too deep. I had hoped that the RfC would solve this content dispute, but now the content dispute is worse, and the majority of the content is disputed. Since this is a borderline notable article anyway (it only got a no consensus due to ARS canvassing), I've taken Ken's suggestion and AfDed it a second time (note that I wasn't the original nominator). If this article can't be fixed, it should be deleted pbp 04:06, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
      • I'll support Drmies' dudgeon insofar as the disputed content is clearly not neutral, with the current version [8] excising neutral or favorable sourced content in favor of something that violates WP:BLP. I think it's reasonable to ask whether the intent is to continue reverting to a malodorous version, the endgame being deletion; either a negative article or none at all. 99.136.254.195 (talk) 04:17, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
    • I was going to post a light hearted 3RR warning for you Drmies, but that doesn't seem like such a good idea now. It does seem pretty certain where this trivial article is now headed. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 12:50, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Tagged for rescue

As I feared, someone has tagged the article for rescue. That's highly inappropriate for two reasons: a) the article can't be rescued because it is fully-protected, and b) it was already tagged as rescue once. As such, it basically amounts to yet more canvassing of the ARS, by a user who has rescue-tagged many AfDs he's disagreed with pbp 21:21, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

• Clearly posting about the article on Drmies talk page was even worse canvassing. Oh the humanity!!--Milowent • ^hasspoken 04:01, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Actually, Milowent, I didn't even see this notice (so high up the page) until I saw your edit go by, so it's probably very inefficient canvassing. Actually, Backpack (or "human"), your point a. is a bit odd and would supply an argument for unprotecting. But let's see what is being said at the AfD. Maybe people like that Milowent will stay away and we can finally delete everything that's not on snails or bridges in Ireland. Drmies (talk) 04:07, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Question to AfD or not to AfD

Both Ediage Valerie Ekwedde and Faisal Saleh‎ are similar articles in that WP:BLP1E could be invoked. I Proded them, but the editor removed the Prod and gave their reason on the talk pages. Faisal Saleh‎ has since been expanded. When it comes to BLP1E, I haven't a clue on how people vote as it can swing wildly, usually depending if a group of people are passionate about the person. So, I'm leery when it comes to this type of possible AfD. Any advice? Bgwhite (talk) 08:02, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker): The first, Ediage Valerie Ekwedde, focuses heavily on just one source (the first) and is two paragraphs long. Definite BLP1E material.

As for the Faisal Saleh article, that one goes into greater detail, has references from multiple sources (not just news organizations) and there could be more of a story there than what is posted. I would mark that for improvement (maybe get a couple editors from Wikipedia:WikiProject Journalism or Wikipedia:WikiProject Human rights involved) and see if you can flush out a better article on that one. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 10:13, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm with you and Homer on the first one--see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ediage Valerie Ekwedde. Drmies (talk) 19:35, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Creativity (religion)

Hello Drmies! I noticed you protected Creativity (religion) a while ago. I would like to request semi-protection again because it seems it helped. I was talking to Yworo and we agree long term or even indefinite semi-protection is a good idea on this article about a subject that is highly controversial. Arcandam (talk) 17:43, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

I second this. Though it perhaps should have been formally requested at WP:RFPP. Yworo (talk) 18:48, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Here's the thing: you are troubled, I guess, by one single IP (so there's no clear vandalism), and it's not really an edit war yet. You are dealing with someone who is determined and who is no rookie here--good for them. Things being as they are I can't really warrant protection (you're free, of course, to try your luck at RFP; not all admins are the same). My advice to the two of you is to establish on the talk page what consensus is and what is warranted by the sources. That takes a bit more time than simply asking for protection, but it's better in the long run: if edits happen against consensus, you can claim disruption. Right now you can claim POV editing, but that's "just your opinion, man", in a couple of edit summaries. Hammer it out in a paragraph or two, and then further disruption can more easily be dealt with. Good luck. Drmies (talk) 21:47, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

GA questions

I was just looking at Jacobus Deketh, which has been promoted to GA. That prompted two questions for me (a) Does that really cover enough to be a GA, and (b) what do I need to do to Mildred Lewis Rutherford for that article to be GA-worthy? (Mildred is currently ranked at C-class.) TPS comments welcomed as well as Drmies's. LadyofShalott 19:02, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

• Lady, what can I say. I'm shocked but I'm not surprised. You got a five-paragraph essay whose references consists of a couple of old newspaper articles and a website or two--and the star was handed out by an editor with 1,300 edits. Come on: you should pull this star or get it delisted. Or get the reviewer to promote every single thing you've ever written to GA. Maybe Sandy needs to hear about this one. Drmies (talk) 21:55, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
• This should certainly be taken to GAR with a view to having it delisted. LadyofShalott seems to have got it in her head that I thought this would pass GA when asked about it on my talk page a little while ago, despite my saying exactly the opposite. What sticks out like a sore thumb for me is the complete reliance on web sources and the relative length of the further reading section. I'd be wondering why none of those print sources have been consulted, and my answer to that would be laziness. If this article addresses the major topics of its subject, as required by the GA criteria, then I'm going to win the next US presidential election. Malleus Fatuorum 13:47, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
  • What would you do for me, MF, should that be the case? I looked for book sources on the gentleman but didn't find much; with such old guys a simple first and last name search doesn't always work very well and Google Books does not yet cover old books NOT in English very well. Certainly there must be material available but, as I'm sure you know, no one knows their way to the library anymore. "Laziness" is a personal attack, by the way; I once called a student lazy and next thing you know I'm in the department head's office. I'll give you a hint: on US college campuses "lazy" is apparently not a color-neutral term. Drmies (talk) 14:38, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
    • "Laziness" seems to me to be a perfectly good way to describe the inclusion of an extensive list of potential sources that the nominator hasn't bothered to check. I wonder where they came from? Perhaps they were copied from somewhere? And you may perhaps be aware of my attitude towards the ridiculous application of Wkipedia's absurd civility policies. Malleus Fatuorum 14:45, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

• Not to steal the Lady's thunder, but I couldn't help noticing the GA review bit on my watchlist. I just came across 100 euro note, a GA, which had copyvio, unattributed CWW/plagiarism -- at the time of GAN. I've listed out a few problems at the talk page, but I'm not familiar with GAR, so could you take a look at it? The attribution trail I highlighted has now been fixed, but I haven't checked everything. Also, Bangladesh at the 2011 Commonwealth Youth Games which passed GAN within three hours of creation. Since the queen of copyright went by and added attribution trail to it, I'm guessing that doesn't have copyvio issues, but maybe it does. Could you take a look at these two and see if a GAR is required and if yes, do the reqd stuff? If you do, I'll promise to not send another request your way for a week. cheers. —SpacemanSpiff 15:51, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
• Spiffy, are you talking to me? I don't know how GAR works--it's not simple enough for me to understand. I started a discussion for some GA on the talk page, as the rules suggested, and I need to look at that again; it's been weeks. The Bangladesh article suffers from terrible prose, that much is clear; I'm starting a thread on its talk page. Malleus, can't we just tell someone and they pull the star? There seems to be consensus for pulling it from the Dutch captain's article: there's three of us, and we're not morons. Drmies (talk) 16:04, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

  Protocol doesn't allow for that I'm afraid. There are only two choices: to initiate an individual GAR or a community one. The individual GAR might be the way to go here, as it does seem like a black-and-white case; it's just like a second GAN, in that the final decision rests with whoever nominates the article. Community GARs on the other hand are more like FACs, where lots of editors argue the toss until someone uninvolved decides that the heat death of the Universe is imminent and so it might as well be closed. In other words they can be interminable, with the same arguments being rehashed over and over again until everyone gets bored. If nobody else does, I may start an individual GAR myself; heck, I'm not looking to win wany popularity contests here.

  On a brighter note, I decided to use my newly acquired Highbeam account to see what I could do to improve The Coral Island article. There's a way to go yet, but I think it's starting to shape up. I've been pleasantly surprised at how much material Highbeam has on children's literature. Malleus Fatuorum 16:31, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

• I always enjoy your brighter notes. A less bright note is Talk:Jacobus Deketh/GA2; I hate doing this, but I run into too many GAs that aren't. Did I do everything correctly? Thanks for your help, and Lady and Malleus, please comment if you like. Drmies (talk) 18:33, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

  Everything looks good and I've commented there. Malleus Fatuorum 18:59, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

• Ha, re:Coral Island--one of my favorite books when I was young is De Scheepsjongens van Bontekoe (the article is on the film version); there's a statue for the three boys in the harbor of my hometown. Drmies (talk) 18:35, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

  I was a voracious reader as a child, and there were a few books that made a deep impression on me, one of them being The Coral island. Another (I suppose less worthy) book was The Mystery at Witchend; looking back now I see what they had in common; authority figures are either absent or useless, and the kids have to stand up for themselves. Malleus Fatuorum 18:59, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

  PS. I've informed the reviewer and the nominator about this GA reassessment. Malleus Fatuorum 19:39, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks; I should have done that, yes. I'll go and read The Coral Island, why not. My favorites had those elements as well--guess I need to write the article for Torenhoog en mijlen breed, about a young explorer on Venus who discovers that the planet and its inhabitants were not necessarily enemies of humans and had to break protocol to prove it; Tonke Dragt wrote a few more fascinating books. De brief voor de Koning is another all-time favorite. Drmies (talk) 19:55, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Malleus, my apologies for misreading you. I was thrown by your saying that Deketh had the better chance; I guess you meant that it was better than the thorium anomaly article, but still not good enough. Anyway, I'm off to look at the review page. LadyofShalott 20:14, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

That's exactly what I meant. I was initially asked if those two articles stood a chance at GAN and I said I didn't think either of them did. Then there was a follow-up question, asking me which of them stood the better chance. Malleus Fatuorum 20:21, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

That is truly what you said (which you know, of course). I just put too much emphasis on the "better chance" part. I think we're all on the same page now. :) LadyofShalott 20:32, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Stealing thunder (again)

• Rather than add to the middle above. Something weird is going on with these GAs. The original reviewer of the Bangladesh games article now delisted it saying "copyright concerns". I hadn't brought up copyvio issues on this one, just mentioned this on the RfA as one with attribution problems that MRG fixed. But the other issues you've brought up on the talk page don't appear to be factored in. Eitherways, you have one less GAR to do. The euro note one is quite straightforward methinks. cheers. —SpacemanSpiff 06:30, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
  • There's something quite odd going on with India related GANs of late, right now we have the nominator reviewing their nomination at Talk:Rekha! And we've also had a few drive-bys recently. There probably is something new like the IEP going on where these prospective editors have been told of GAN or something like that without being provided assistance on editing. —SpacemanSpiff 17:55, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
    • You skinned that cat nicely. Let's put that nomination down to ineptness, perhaps. Drmies (talk) 21:30, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
      • I was just going to post here, I blocked that sock nominator. Abusing four accounts now, by his own admission one is for uploading copyvios, one for text crap and so on. He asked me to allow him to use two and block the other two. That email was way too funny, btw, he came to my talk page with a very funny posting, you should check that out! —SpacemanSpiff 21:44, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
        • Wait--so it's all Mumbaifreaks (talk · contribs)? That name sounds familiar. Drmies (talk) 21:56, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
          • Yes, that account has a block log and warnings on copyvios and of course a few GA noms! Check your email anyway! —SpacemanSpiff
            • Whoa, I can almost read that. Eh, Spiff, you're a female teenager? I didn't quite understand. Now explain to me why you didn't block them for a lot longer! Drmies (talk) 22:08, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
• I didn't either, there are some things that are better left as is. Well, that would mean having to unearth the next one without help. —SpacemanSpiff 22:19, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Sweeet. Drmies (talk) 00:19, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

World's worst job and also shortest time from your hired to fired.

If you ever thought your job was bad... New article came by yesterday that I think is the worst job. No, it is not the new purple Wiggle, Lachlan Gillespie. Georgios Zanias is the poor person. Bgwhite (talk) 23:04, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

• The paycheck makes up for a lot, no doubt. Drmies (talk) 03:09, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
  • I don't know, your paycheck is from the Greek government. Not too many banks would cash that. Bgwhite (talk) 07:00, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
    • Doesn't work like that--you don't get checks that need cashing. Your salary is automatically deposited in your bank account, in Euros. And those banks seem to be solvent still. No, I'd sign up for a Greek cabinet position, but I wouldn't quit my day job. Drmies (talk) 13:34, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

"You're not a guy, you're a backpack"

Actually, I'm a guy who wears a backpack, and who came to be defined by the backpack in my earlier years. I'd post a picture of said backpack on my userpage, but it's monogrammed and I don't want to display my identity pbp 16:08, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

• You know what "day pack" is in Japanese? Find out and I'll tell you the best (and only) joke I've ever made in Japanese. Well, joke, it doesn't have much of a punchline. Drmies (talk) 16:15, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Charles Kegel

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Charles Kegel (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

If you feel like it, take a look at this nomination. Truthfully, I didn't know it was a second nomination until after Twinkle completed the AfD page, but I braved ahead anyway.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:24, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

• No worries--it happens. That AfD was no consensus anyway. I've done some legwork though I can do nothing to improve the article, and I'm coming down on the "Weak keep" side. Sorry if I'm bringing down your average. ;) Drmies (talk) 14:29, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks very much for your usual cogent analysis. God only knows what might happen in an RfA and my AfD "average", but I don't much care. I just do what I think is right. Assuming the article is kept, which is the way it is heading, I'm going to remove the notability tag because it seems there's not much that can be added to make him notable on the surface, and all it does is raise a fruitless red flag.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:53, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

• Yeah, it's a shame: I'm pretty sure the guy is notable but I can't write an article since there's no material. I mean, we can list the textbook and give footnotes to the reviews (I'll do that in the next day or two) but that's not writing. Don't worry about your average, haha. You'll be fine. Drmies (talk) 23:22, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Help request

I'm trying to search for the discussion over the blocking of user Amisquitta in July 2009. [9] There was talk of the blocking on the administrators noticeboard in August 2009 [10], but I've tried searching (and looking manually) but have found nothing. Meowy 02:28, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

• Have you asked Georgewilliamherbert (talk · contribs)? What led to it, apparently, was this legal threat. I'm sure you found this--but there's nothing there. I'm a bit puzzled, Meowy--there may be talk page stalkers who are better than I am at searching through those archives. Sorry, Drmies (talk) 14:41, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

I had found that link - but, as you say, it leads nowhere (I also looked through manually all the posts from around 12 June 2011 and found nothing, as I had also found nothing amongst the August 2009 posts). I was wondering if it had all been deleted (and that I've stumbled onto a dark little Wikipedia secret perhaps). Meowy 19:37, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

It's possible, yes, and I looked for deleted entries though in my usual amateurish way. Perhaps the blocking admin remembers. If black Suburbans pull up in front of your house, bolt. Drmies (talk) 19:44, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Verrrry interesting...

I should take the time to learn how to do a proper SPI. I have no idea how far off the expected norms I am. I usually don't hang out in the halls down there. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 15:49, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

• Oh, I think you did fine. No worries, Drmies (talk) 15:52, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks. As always, your opinions are appreciated. Now we wait. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 16:08, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

• Interesting indeed, and appropriately linked header I suppose. Amazing amount of interest on her page, I guess that is the price of being a high profile ArbCom, high profile scrutiny. I think I've cleared up any concerns there. You and DGG seem to have interesting ideas. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 19:52, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Closure request

Hi! I moved your closure request from the AN main page to WP:ANRFC where the rest of the current closure requests are listed. Hope that's okay. Jafeluv (talk) 19:20, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

• Sure, though I think that lumping them gets them less attention individually. Drmies (talk) 19:25, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

User:Bvquach

I don't know if you have UTRS access. User:Bvquach is appealing against their blocking. You blocked them for block evasion but I can't work out what the original account is. Thanks Secretlondon (talk) 20:09, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

• I'm on it. I'll get back to you. Drmies (talk) 21:26, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Walbottle Campus Technology College

Please, save me from edit warring over persistent inclusion of non-notable staff in a high school article. The crap I engage in..... oh, and thank you. Hope the get-together was great fun yesterday. 99.136.254.195 (talk) 22:21, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

• Hmm, crap. I've spent too much wiki-time dealing with it. Yes it was fun, thank you very much. The happening cocktail was Dark 'N' Stormy; the happening food item was jicama which none of us (eight) had ever eaten. I was pleasantly surprised by it (nice, crunchy, fresh) and after my visit to my specialist today I think I'll be eating it more often--old, metabolism, BMI, blood sugars, yada yada. Drmies (talk) 23:18, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

• • Glad to hear it. The swimsuit and goggles image was sweet. Ms. 99 likes the dark 'n' stormy--I'm referring to the drink, though could just as well be alluding to life with me--and I've never heard of jicama. My deal lately is lower back pain, which made dragging my paint supplies around the rocks last week immensely less appealing than lying about. 99.136.254.195 (talk) 23:26, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

I dont think that the Leadership Team Information should be deleted as these are executive Teachers, where as the The policy states 'non executive teachers'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.193.229 (talk) 00:12, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

• Well, we disagree. I don't know what "executive teachers" are--sounds like "teachers". At a university, we don't list department heads either; we are not a directory. And you can't be a reliable source, even if you have straight As and are the teacher's pet: please see WP:RS. Drmies (talk) 23:30, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Well all members of staff on the list are executive teachers who are a key role in the managment of the school and therefore are just as important as the headmaster. These teachers are not department heads they are managment just like the headmaster, deputy head and chair of governors. Gosforth academy also lists the same information on there wiki page as well however there information has not been deleted why is this? < span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.193.229 (talk) 23:38, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Okay, WP:COI is clearly an issue here. One thing we don't do is point at problematic content in other articles to support our edits, though since you've brought it up I'll have a look there.... 99.136.254.195 (talk) 23:56, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

IP99 and I are working hard to patrol every single article on Wikipedia. Give us a bit more time, please. Drmies (talk) 00:20, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) The relevant link, 79, is WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. The unfortunate truth is that not all articles are perfect, or even decent. One does not wish to emulate bad practices just because we haven't been able to clean up every article. LadyofShalott 00:28, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

The idea of "executive teachers" just makes me laugh. Only in America. Malleus Fatuorum 00:24, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Meh, it's a term I've never heard before, but... LadyofShalott 00:28, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

(To Malleus) You are saying that with an arched eyebrow and a smile, since the school is question is in England. The trouble with cyber-chat is that it allows an extra layer of deadpan. 99.136.254.195 (talk) 00:35, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Jeez! Could I apply to become an executive arsehole here on Wikipedia? I'm sure I'd get lots of support. Malleus Fatuorum 00:37, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Wait your turn. If the position comes up I'm first in line. 99.136.254.195 (talk) 00:39, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

If it's a salaried position funded by the WMF then I'm afraid you'll have to be eliminated. No hard feelings I hope. Malleus Fatuorum 00:45, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

None at all. I'm used to being a freelancer. But why would they sponsor it? 99.136.254.195 (talk) 00:48, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

For their very own scapegoat? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:50, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

They wouldn't publicly admit to that, of course. But I guess you've never visited their basement? Malleus Fatuorum 00:57, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

• Never been to cal-EH-fo-nay-a... — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:15, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

<--Gentlemen, Lady, we're trying to build an encyclopedia here. Also, I don't like it if I don't get a joke--oh, wait, WMF. I get it. That's rich. Listen, peons, I'm going to Wikimania this year where I expect to have dinner with Sue Gardner and possibly drinks with God himself--I think he owes me. I fully intend to come back not just with a t-shirt, but possibly two, and a key chain. And then I'm going to order me a pair from this page. Only in America, Malleus--let me know which kind you want and I'll bring it to the next Wiki meet-up, or however you wish to hyphenate that. Drmies (talk) 02:29, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Really: where do you find that crap [11], and more importantly, why? I appreciate your help on these little contretemps, but none of it's worth our aggravation. Especially given the financial compensation for our troubles. 99.153.142.225 (talk) 02:45, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

• Speaking of hyphenation: "Poly-pro-py-lene Co-poly-mer OR High Density Polyethylene". Is polyethylene that much easier for their customers to com-pre-hend? Drmies, if you buy those, I hope Mrs. Drmies makes fun of you mercilessly. LadyofShalott 02:47, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Lady, I have a Camry. My balls will be dragging on the street--I won't be needing her to be the laughing stock of the neighborhood, though she won't be able to resist. Oh, speaking of balls: Sippi had wobbled a tooth loose a little bit this afternoon--by 9:30PM it was out. That girl is tough. Or sick. Drmies (talk) 02:55, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Giulia Marletta

Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:03, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Jenks24

What's the "right place"?--Bbb23 (talk) 00:53, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

• I don't know--Malleus? Drmies (talk) 02:07, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
  • I'm not sure either, but if it's any consolation I saw it and appreciated it. Jenks24 (talk) 02:13, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
    • Enjoy it, before all that power goes to your head and nothing in life will amuse you anymore. Drmies (talk) 02:22, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

• @Jenks24, I'm glad you saw it, but I wanted it to be public. I should've trusted my instincts and reversed Malleus's removal. I note he hasn't responded here, but perhaps he didn't notice it, and I didn't feel like asking him for his basis for the reversion (don't know him and my sense is he's not the most warm and fuzzy of editors). @Drmies, should I put my comment back in, or should I let it go, oh uninvolved third-party? I suppose it's not all that important (particularly given the positive direction of the RfA), but I do have this nasty habit of getting hung up on principle. @Jenks24, don't let Drmies's comment about amusement fool you. He's amused by a great deal and, more important, he's quite amusing. No one should feel compelled to respond to any of this, including my question.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:14, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

• OK, I think generally such comments are part of one's !vote; there was nothing inherently wrong with your friendly comment, Bbb, but responses to answers suggest that it's a debating section, and the debate is generally reserved for the sections with supports and opposes (or the talk page, of course). In the section where you placed it one finds follow-ups to questions. Malleus has probably seen a lot more AfDs than I have; he might have a better answer but I doubt we'll hear from him anytime soon. That affair was less than amusing and I'm going to look at other things before I really lose my temper. Drmies (talk) 23:30, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
• Or one can comment here on an answer: well done, Jenks, on my Q. You can tell, perhaps, that I have a habit of jumping to the defense of IP editors. Too many registered accounts forgot where they came from. Drmies (talk) 23:34, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the introduction to DYK

Drmies, Thank you for the introduction to DYK with the Giulia Marletta page. I have a couple more new pages that I am working on! Just a note: Was the mylife reference that I just reverted legit? Doc2234 (talk) 01:39, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

• Whoa, that's awful. I opened the link and something started talking to me; I hate that. Yes, that's not a reliable source. Keep on submitting them and let me know if I can help. Drmies (talk) 01:52, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

In case you didn't notice...

BAMM!!! --kelapstick^(bainuu) 01:58, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

• Wow--you are so the man! Drmies (talk) 02:03, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

• Nice. LadyofShalott 02:30, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Mike Daniels (American football)

Hi Drmies, I was just informing you that I have made changes to the article as requested and will wait for your review. Regards, --SKATER ^{Is Back} 13:41, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

• Responded there; thank you. Drmies (talk) 14:05, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Made more changes. --SKATER ^{Is Back} 14:28, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Dispute resolution notice

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "The Black Album/Come On Feel the Dandy Warhols". Thank you. --Neuroticguru (talk) 16:34, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

• Moving right along. Drmies (talk) 18:45, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Barret Loux

Can you continue the review? I can't find any sources that explicitly link the one to the other. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:06, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

• Will do later today in detail; that hook looks better. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 19:14, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Sigh...

Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 22:59, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Request for clarification....

"neither Scottywong nor MONGO are going to fill his shoes: the one doesn't have the sense or the spine, the other doesn't have the decency"as you put it here...so which one of us "doesn't have the sense or the spine" and which one "doesn't have the decency"?...oh, BTW...see WP:NPA...Thank you.--MONGO 00:09, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

• I'm not sure that stirring the pot yet more is helpful here Mongo. Perhaps we just need to leave well enough alone for now. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 00:16, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
• I saw your comment already; no need to repeat it here. Shit or get off the pot. Drmies (talk) 01:09, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

  Hum...perhaps you are correct...one should never challenge an admin...especially one that thinks it is just fine and grand to warn someone of NPA, etc., then turn around and make their own personal attacks against the person they just got through warning. Isn't this exactly the kind of admin abuses Malleus has been fretting about all this time? I guess he means abuses to him...if his partisan buddies are handing out the abuses then that's okay. Drmies...thank you for giving me the worst series of insults directed at me since at least 2007. Malleus has taught you well. For the record (and I have stated this before)...offsite I had a mountain of diffs whch I had intended to bring to arbcom, but decided to not do it...I was convinced it would be seen as vindictive. I didn't even participate in the arbcom case that had Malleus' name on it...I could have and it would have been bad for him...but I didn't. I have seen numerous complaints about Malleus at noticeboards since...yet I have stayed out of it. Let me clear...I hate the guy...so for the purposes of harmony, I avoid him...you have no idea how much restraint I had ot have to not go to arbcom...I make one support at Rfa and I did research the candidate...Malleus shows up to ask, not a serious question, but a deliberately pointed one...he does this with others and makes further snide comments for no reason. My reward for not going after Malleus when I had the chance is to still have to deal with his garbage...yet I am the one that is vindictive?...outrageous!--MONGO 02:02, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

• Yeah, outrageous, you're totally being oppressed. If a lack of decency is the worst thing you've been charged with since 2007 you must be living in Disneyland, with your secret cache of diffs (you think you're the only one watching Malleus's every move?). Your fake magnanimity is not convincing. Next time you want to avoid someone, try harder. And I know you hate him; that's obvious, but so are other things. Hey, I was expecting a really serious warning here from you, not a cry session. Stay away; I only want happy people on my talk page. And avoid me as well, ty very much. Drmies (talk) 02:22, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

• I am happy! I am also sorry you don't believe me...--MONGO 02:47, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

• Happy people don't hate other people. Drmies (talk) 02:53, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
• It's not happy people but cowards who turn their user page into an attack page, mongo. I'll leave this link here; I like the first oppose already. Drmies (talk) 03:23, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

As I don't do civility (un)blocks – I can't face the dramaz involved in justifying myself — you're safe from me whatever and whenever you say it, but I'm slightly curious as to why you were surprised to learn that I'm an admin... Bencherlite^Talk 01:40, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

• Cause you have a sense of humor, I guess. To be sure, some of Malleus's bitches (or members of his harem, according to one administrator who recently made headlines) are admins; I guess I just never ran into you in that capacity. The former admin who opens this section...well, never mind. Thanks for stopping by! Drmies (talk) 01:51, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Celestial Nutrifoods

Hello hello. Feel like taking a look at this one? Appears to have been started by a disgruntled investor. Cheers, 99.153.142.225 (talk) 03:01, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

• So much talk of fraud and forums: I deleted it as an attack page. Sorry to bring down your edit total by a few, and thanks for letting me know. Drmies (talk) 03:16, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Good Humor
	Drmies, you're absolutely right! The Dandy Warhols are no Reverend Horton Heat. Thank you for that. It made me laugh. Neuroticguru (talk) 04:39, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

I would like to meet...

...this lady, as an admin you will be able to read it after it is deleted, but for those talk page stalkers who are not admins, I will give you a sample. "She speaks 8 languages, the most fluent of which is the language of LOVE."--kelapstick^(bainuu) 06:06, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

My favourite line is, "There are thousands of men who would gladly swim across an ocean of thumbtacks just to be eclipsed by the long shadow that is cast by her accomplishments." Now, if we were talking about my wife, it would be, "feels like swimming across an ocean of thumbtacks to be with her everyday." Bgwhite (talk) 06:58, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Ha! Now that's marriage, didn't "Weird Al" Yankovic have a song about that? One More Minute? Nolelover and I are having a discussion about how if we could harness the brightness of her smile, we would be out of the energy crisis. If only we could. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 07:02, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Yep, she sounds like a keeper. Bg, I have yet to hear you say a nice thing about your wife. Are you sure you're not imagining her? Drmies (talk) 13:44, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for reminding me about the Weird Al song. He is a genius except for his Twinkie wiener sandwich from the film UHF. I show my wife almost all the, um, nice and kind comments I make. She is actually a fantastic person and wife. For the really strange part, we've never had an argument. Of course, I won't show her these nice comments. Bgwhite (talk) 21:24, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Why you should pick your battles. Funny as shit. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 05:44, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

By the way, regarding your posting at VPP, perhaps you are going to have to limit yourself to a two dick maximum, but I am sure the addition will go great with the boobies on your user page.--kelapstick^(bainuu) 22:22, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

They're called penises, Kelapstick, unless of course you are referring to some editors I've been involved with recently. Did you see Floquenbeam asked to be desysopped? His explanation involved penises and rectums, of the metaphorical kind. Drmies (talk) 22:26, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

I will call them what I damn well want doc, have you ever heard Too Many Dicks on the Dance Floor, by Flight of the Conchords? Classic stuff. And why would anyone say rooster when they could say cock? Speaking of large cocks (of the rooster variety), did you read that link about picking your battles, ? I didn't see about the desysop, are you sure they were metaphorical? --kelapstick^(bainuu) 22:31, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

No I hadn't. It's hilarious. "Knock-knock, motherfucker." I want a chicken like that. Drmies (talk) 22:52, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

←I want towels with that embroidery. There is another post about the time she ordered a cardboard TARDIS, and set it up outside her husband's office, and made loud TARDIS noises while he was on a conference call. My wife and I have a deal, she can get the large chicken, if I can get the TARDIS (secretly I want the chicken too, so it's win-win). --kelapstick^(bainuu) 22:58, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Invitation

Out of a sheer penchant for drivel, I've penned an essay on BLP noteworthiness. I don't know what I expect from having done so. But I thought I'd share it with you because you're a regular BLP contributor, and I value your understanding of current policy and guidelines, as well as you opinion of if and how they might be improved. If you don't have time or interest, no hard feelings. In fact, if you think I'm being wrongheaded, please leave a comment to that effect. All the best. JFHJr (㊟) 10:23, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

• Interesting. I was thinking of K-pop and J-pop and Justin Bieber on Twitter while I was reading it. Q: "However, receipt of an award that enjoys no coverage in secondary sources is most likely insignificant". That's talking about an award that has no coverage itself? (Basically, an award needs to have or be able to have an article?) The receipt has coverage, right, or it couldn't be included?

  If you want to link to this for the benefit of fart collectors (in reference to WP:FART and the desire to note every little thing in BLPs), it would be wise to, ahem, adjust the prose or give examples that are more readily understood by writers at the level of "On April 28, 2006, it was announced by Tsunku from his official website that fifth generation members Asami Konno and Makoto Ogawa were going to graduate." (This gem from Morning Musume, 74k of drivel.) Thanks, Drmies (talk) 15:10, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

  • I just revamped WP:FART, I thought a little housekeeping would give it more street cred. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 22:58, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

• A: By "receipt of an award that enjoys no coverage in secondary sources is most likely insignificant," I meant to exclude awards that have zero reliable secondary source coverage. It does not mean coverage of the award to a particular recipient is always needed, but that would practically remove all doubt as to noteworthiness. By my estimation, awards that don't make WP:GNG could still pass this test: there is no requirement of multiple sources or significant coverage, at least to the extent of GNG. Focusing on sources, neither the recipient nor the awarding group is an absolutely reliable source in all cases: it serves the prestige of one or both to publicize the award. That's not always a problem; some awarding groups are alright to cite to, like Nobel or any given military IMHO. A big reason I'd focus on sources in this way generally is that facts either tie to notability (often awards), may have tenuous relevancy (sometimes awards), or are of basic biographical value (maybe awards – world's biggest baby?).

So practically speaking, awards boil down to crap(fart?) awards, squarely notable awards, and the middle. Very notable awards will have been given ample mention. Less notable awards, fewer mention, and fart awards zero mention. It's a six-foot high mambo stick, so only drunks and elephants would have a problem. One third party mention is a start, and from there it goes to WP:RS and WP:BLP. With the quote above, I wanted to come up with a brighter line for those in the middle, based on the real value of the award as indicated in reliable coverage. FWIW, according to the essay, a Tweet's treatment does not really change from the current RS x BLP redux: Twitter's reliable if it's a registered account; the Tweet must pass WP:BLPSPS even if reliable (x 3p claims). Notability would probably mostly apply as a yardstick of topical relevancy per reliable sources.

I do enjoy WP:FART. I just like a brighter line. JFHJr (㊟) 03:14, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Knight in Shining Armor

Okay, I will take that into account whatever you posted on editor LF's talk page, and I shall try my best to not be patronizing to anyone. I understand that you mean't that I should be acting as if someone is stupid when they already have enough experience as that only pisses of another editor, and won't help me or her/him, and can only cause conflict. However, even though I don't interact with Milowent, I will assume this edit he's posted to LF's talk page was acting in good faith, and he probably lost his cool over something that could have erupted between LF and him/her, and I could have made a mistake in actually interpreting it. Yes, I am human, and I do make mistakes, just like everybody else. A bad time certainly does come in once in a while and does have an effect of causing frustration/annoyance among editors. Yet again, I am sorry for having misinterpreted that, and I would like to thank you for giving me some welcoming advice to avoid any drama/conflict between me and any Wikipedian editors. Mr. Wikipediania ^Talk 16:08, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

• I'm not saying there was some misinterpretation or whatever here and I'm not saying Milowent was right--I'm just saying that if a seasoned editor like Milowent says something like that it may not be your place to comment; he is not very likely to take your commentary in the way in which it was perhaps intended. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 16:12, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Alright, understood. Enjoy your day, and I hope you don't have a bad time because of this. Mr. Wikipediania ^Talk 16:14, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
    • No, far from it. Same to you, and thanks for your notes. Drmies (talk) 16:53, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
• I don't think LF will be butthurt over my silly comment. The fact is we have some people who regularly engage in uncivil behavior around here because they don't understand social interaction at a minimum level. Thus, LF goes around with his Dandy Warhols axe grinding oblivious to everyone rolling their eyes at him. If no one gives him a little hint, he may become more and more socially maladapted until he starts collecting cabbage patch dolls and treating them like real people or something similarly horrible.[12]. Mr. Wikipediania's response didn't bother me, I knew he meant well.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 17:06, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
  • That's scary. Are you still in therapy? Drmies (talk) 17:08, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Reiteration

Yes, you can if you want. I reserve the right to believe that anyone deleting useful content from a page because of a misunderstanding over its name, and then refusing to discuss any option other than that deletion, might not be particularly constructive. Maybe next time I should escalate it to an RFC, rather than discuss it, before the other party does... Nick Cooper (talk) 16:20, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

• You got into an edit war and a name-calling contest. "Vandalism" involves an intent to disrupt Wikipedia. Drmies (talk) 16:53, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Harriet Presser

I don't know how the new page review works, but I hope this comment is read by the editor who declined the submission for Harriet Presser (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Harriet_Presser).

The comments say, "But the article needs reliable third-party sources, such as book reviews, or books and articles discussing her and her importance."

In addition to the one book review cited in the article (Maume, David J. 2005. "Tales from the Economic Frontier." Contemporary Sociology 34(5)), the evidence for her importance is mostly this:

• Elected president of the Population Association of America -- the national professional organization for demographers. For some reason PAA doesn't have a Wikipedia page, but it is a major organization, with about 3,000 members in academia, government and industry. It publishes the top international demography scientific journal, Demography.

• The award statements from the American Sociological Association and the Population Association of America (cited in the references), extensively describe the importance of her scientific contributions and impact on the fields of sociology and demography.

Would you mind having another look at the references there and letting me know what else I might need to add? Doing my best here. Thanks, yyyikes (Philip Cohen) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yyyikes (talk • contribs) 17:29, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

• Yes, you're in the right place. Sorry, I missed that one reference, which is a really good one. As I suggested, I'm not questioning her notability, but rather the references. That Population Association is a redlink, but an independent article/note on the award would help. If you move or remove the references that link to her work (that's primary) and find one or two more reviews, references, whatever (and maybe remove that obit--it's not an article, but a paid notification, it seems), you should be good to go. Drmies (talk) 17:37, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Yyyikes (talk) 19:34, 23 May 2012 (UTC)OK, I made a number of improvements. Added reference to news reports about her book in three national newspapers, three more laudatory academic journal reviews, and a conference session in her honor. Looking at the criteria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:PROF), it seems she qualifies under #1 (significant impact), #3 (if the American Association for the Advancement of Science counts), #5 (since she was a "distinguished professor" at a major university, and #6 (president of a notable scholarly society). I hope that does it.

• I moved it to main space. Thanks; well done. Drmies (talk) 00:47, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
• Lady, could you please unleash your HotCat and see if there's anything else you can do with the article? Is there a DYK in it? Drmies (talk) 00:48, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Yyyikes (talk) 01:01, 24 May 2012 (UTC)Awesome. That's great. KTHXBYE.

What is meant by she "was elected to the American Association for the Advancement of Science"? Anyone can pay to be a member of AAAS, and it means nothing (and is not even worth mentioning). Was she a Fellow of AAAS though? That would mean a whole lot. LadyofShalott 01:53, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Yyyikes (talk) 16:47, 24 May 2012 (UTC)Oops, right - she was elected a Fellow. I'll fix it. tx.

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Just felt the need to award someone... that's all. Tboii99 ✉ 22:45, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Multiple IPs

Hi, any help you can provide would be appreciated. Nine year old gone wild. Cheers, 99.153.142.225 (talk) 00:13, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

• Sorry, someone else had to pick up the slack for me. I was reading something long but ultimately boring. Drmies (talk) 00:41, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Condolences. Though such exercises might be tolerable if accompanied by the right ale. 99.153.142.225 (talk) 02:11, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
    • Yes, but my doctor spoke to me sternly, if you know what I mean. I did have a Witkap Tripel today--delicious. I saw a whole bunch of IP addresses got blocked; was there ever a range block? Drmies (talk) 02:18, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
      • Perhaps it's time to change doctors. Just saying. 99.153.142.225 (talk) 02:26, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
      • This is true: about a dozen years ago I had a doctor who encouraged me to drink more. Hope you're well. Let me know should you ever be traveling through, and we can chat over lobster rolls and iced tea. 99.153.142.225 (talk) 02:53, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
        • She says I need to lose thirty pounds. Since my wife isn't drinking anymore due to her "condition" she has gotten more fond of remarking on my intake. Oh, guess what, the day of my doctor's visit my wife brought home wings. I think the devil is very much alive still. Drmies (talk) 03:08, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
          • Last year I shed about 25 pounds on a diet. Cut sugar, dairy, and carbs--in other words, the fun crap--and ate more greens. Still allowed for meat and fish, so it was just a behavioral shift, rather than anything draconian. 99.153.142.225 (talk) 03:30, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
            • I've dropped 30 pounds in the last 3 months doing similar things, Atkins like, nearly paleo, no wheat, only nice fatty meats and fish, non-starchy vegetables, stevia for sweetener in Kool-Aid instead of soda. A diagnosis of borderline diabetes was the inspiration. I must say I feel a great deal better, mentally and physically, and I still have 30 more to go. I find it easy to resist temptation as I feel so much more alert and relaxed, and almost no more back pain. An easy sacrifice. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 14:33, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
              • Ugh, I'm not sure I could survive without bread. No sammiches?! Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 14:41, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
                • My doctor suggested I start drinking skim milk. You don't say that to a Dutchman. Drmies (talk) 14:45, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
                • It isn't always easy to find proper food. This is basically a "cave man" diet. When I'm on the road and must eat SOMETHING, I buy three McDoubles and eat only the meat and cheese. I eat all the almonds, pork rinds, meat and salad I want. Lots of stir fry zucchini and squash. I find I no longer crave anything, my blood sugar is low and stable, no hypoglycemic moments. I'm quite strict, which is why the cravings left after a month, and I eat less overall simply because I rarely get hungry (ie: no carb cravings). I went to Vegas the other week, to many buffets, and found myself not tempted at all. Ok, if the buffet at Paris would have had their blueberry pie, I would have had a slice with coffee, but they didn't. It is ok to break the rules once in a month, although I have only once for a chimichanga and regretted it. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 14:50, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
                  • You are going to die of fat. Drmies (talk) 15:07, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
                    • Since my cholesterol is lower, as well as my triglycerides, blood sugar, weight, lethargy and level of pain, that is a risk that I am not overly concerned with. We did evolve to eat this way over many millennia (or the last 6, for my friends in Kansas). Grain and refined sugar is rather new to the human diet, thus obviously not required. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 15:27, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
                      • You're still at risk of dying of smug. Equazcion ^(talk) 15:29, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
                        • I would have been dead many years ago, my friend. ;) Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 15:34, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
                          • Doc, you should recommend your doctor read Fat: An Appreciation of a Misunderstood Ingredient, with Recipes regarding the skim milk suggestion, then tell him, "I read it on the Wikipedia, so it must be true!" And then tell him, "I know as much as you, I am Dr. Mies, and you are Dr. Butt Head!"--kelapstick^(bainuu) 23:10, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
                            • Do I call him that before, during, or after my annual you-know exam? Drmies (talk) 23:58, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
                              • Definitely after. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 00:04, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
                                • Oh, I should think during would be interesting. 99.153.142.225 (talk) 00:06, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
                                  • Drmies, any dietary plan that lets you eat all the bacon you want has to be good for you. I ate two slices for breakfast, which I now find is plenty satisfying as a light meal or snack for this 200 pounder. I keep a bag in the frig, just microwave a bit to warm. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 15:19, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Frog and the Birdsong, etc.

Tonight I read Frog and the Birdsong, Frong Is Frightenend, and Frog and the Stranger. This whole series is wonderful - really sweet stories. LadyofShalott 04:05, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

• Oh you did? Isn't it wonderful? Frog and the Stranger is one of my favorites--"the rat. it's always the rat who did it." Now that's a useful lesson for children...and grown-ups as well. Thanks! Drmies (talk) 13:56, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

• Yes, and now I have Frog in Love and Crocodile [something-or-other] to take home today. I'm going to show our children's staff these books as well. LadyofShalott 19:43, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Notice of Wikiquette Assistance discussion

Hello, Drmies. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Wikiquette assistance regarding wrongfully filled ticket. The discussion is about the topic Wikipedia:Wikiquette_assistance#A_provocation. Thank you. Tempac3 (talk) 05:20, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

• No, thank you. Drmies (talk) 15:10, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

User:Badmachine

You seem to have a good rapport with this editor. Was wondering if you could have a talk with them about edit warring. Over the past week this editor has started two minor edit wars over parts of the List of furry conventions. This morning totally ignoring a conversation on the talk page and reverting my last edit that had ended the war [13]. I also find a bit strange that a brand new account made the same exact edit while Badmachine was blocked yesterday. [14] I really don't feel like this turning into a huge issue so i figured someone uninvolved maybe able to help. Ridernyc (talk) 18:44, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

• Well, I've done what I can do as an admin, rather than as a mentor of sorts, since that isn't really an issue here. It takes two to tango an edit war, of course. ;) As for the new account, I'm not a CU. There was talk of Badmachine's alternate accounts, a matter that I have not looked into myself but, if I understand the talk page and the ANI thread correctly, that was resolved--I don't know if a CU looked into that or not. You are welcome, of course, to ask for a CU, with or without an SPI, who will judge if it's a valid request or not (i.e., not a fishing expedition) and if so will figure out if there is evidence. There's an IP that made the same edit, but CU won't link to IPs. I hope this helps. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drmies (talk • contribs) 19:18, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks, yeah I'm considering a CU if it continues. Looking it over quickly we had 4 additions of it 2 by Badmachine, 1 by an IP, and 1 by a SPA that came straight to the list. Not sure why there would be so many My Little Ponie fans suddenly editing the article. For the record I have no real interest int he article either, just trying to let it find it's way as it cleans itself up. I'd really rather be doing something else. Ridernyc (talk) 19:32, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Fairly obvious it's cause my little pony is a lulzy subject, as is the furry fandom. Combine the two in what appears to outsiders as a ridiculous edit war and you have a topic that will result in many contributions from those who enjoy lulz. I wouldn't worry about things, by all means do a check user but I bet you'll find nowt. Egg Centric 23:00, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Well, neither Rider nor I will be doing CU checks--that's much higher up the pay scale. Plus, I don't think it was a ridiculous edit war: sorry, but it's fairly run off the mill. ;) Drmies (talk) 23:06, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

wow, i just now saw this. let me explain that many bronies hate being called furries, and many furries dont want bronies to be considered part of the fandom. however, going by definition only and without any citation as required in wikipedia articles, bronies are de-facto furries: people interested in anthropomorphic characters, and not everyone from either side is willing to accept this. as i have stated before, i do not sock. and yes, as soon as i was unbanned, i restored bronycon to the article because i saw that going on on list of furry conventions, and was reverted, whether rightly or not. after finding no sources, i am hoping that this falls under WP:BLUE, but we will have to see how that pans out on the talk page. let me add that i am willing to be checkusered, to put these allegations to bed, btw. -badmachine 02:54, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Getting these images going

Howdy, could you take a look at badmachine's talk and put the image lulz into action pls? Egg Centric 23:00, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

• Oh I saw it. We're pondering. Drmies (talk) 23:05, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Lucifer

What the frigg? This evening, he accuses me of canvassing (while posting about the AfD on a bunch of other people's talk pages, wonder what he calls that), and then posts on my talk page. This has got to stop pbp 02:14, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Are you serious? You accuse me baselessly of canvassing at every AfD you follow me to and now you have the audacity to whine about being the recipient of your own medicine? Are you not familiar with the concept of hypocrisy? The AfD template states it is advisable to inform contributors of an article about the AfD, perhaps you should take it up with the AfD template policy but that is not canvassing. If some day you want to meet your obligation of desisting from the articles that I am working on I will consider your needs honey.LuciferWildCat (talk) 05:17, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Lucifer, what you're asking for is a heckler's veto...no matter how well-intended my edits are, I have to stop them whenever you show up at a page. Things don't work that way. I stay out of your NorCal bailiwick; you ought to stay out of my bailiwick of Southern California. And don't call me honey, and stay the frigg away from my talk page (you don't see me on your talk page), and stop the edit-warring and misuse of the rescue template, etc pbp 05:29, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and user ignored my request to stay off my talk page. He just posted back the comments I deleted, and added more besides. I undid them again; if he posts back a third time that's not only not heeding a stay-away request endorsed by a number of users, it's edit warring pbp 05:42, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Constantly trying to delete anything I touch is not "well intended" I on the other hand have attempted to reach out and address your concerns that rescued articles do not progress to a good article state. Then quit calling me a canvasser and insisting that I am misusing a template your brain does not understand honey. I am not edit warring with any rescue template, that's a new accusation to me. If you stay off the articles I am editing then I would have no reason to be on your talk page amigo. Pretty simple. I have not reverted anything on your talk page you insist on splintering your comments directed at me in twenty different places and then you act coy when I respond with the continuity of the conversation intact. But if I am edit warring you will be able to show me a diff simply adding the same thing over and over to your talk page while you ignore me and make no comments to me elsewhere, right?LuciferWildCat (talk) 06:04, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Lucifer, do stop calling pbp "honey". That is demeaning. Both of you stop acting like 3-year-olds. LadyofShalott 08:08, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

• Sorry Lady,I think they need Lollipop.Justice007 (talk) 08:22, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Justice, I don't think hard candy is a good thing. But if you can pick up a kaneelstok or two at the kermis, that would be nice--you know, the softer kind. Thanks! Drmies (talk) 14:22, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
  • I'm not the one acting like a 3-year-old over here. Some people like Lucifer just don't get the point...when someone tells them "Don't misuse the rescue template", the idea is to not misuse the rescue template. When someone tells you "stay off my talk page", you don't keep coming back to their talk page, as he's done time and again and I've undid or reverted each time pbp 13:00, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
• Ahem. Knock it off, both of you. Luciferwildcat, Purplebackback doesn't want you on his talk page; stay away. You may notify him when you drag him to one of the drama boards, but that's it. I'm not interested in y'all's accusations back and forth and here and there and left and right and elsewhere--I just want it to stop before I ask for a full-blown interaction ban. If you have to interact, act like grown-ups (well, not like me or some other not so adult people--try and act like the Lady, with some decorum). Stay away from each other's articles. Don't nominate each other's articles for deletion. Don't nominate articles the other has worked on for deletion, don't tag 'em, don't work on them. Just stay away. Sheesh. I visit my lovely talk page early in the morning looking for happy things, like beer or barnstars or fried chicken, and what I get is a bunch of yelling. No mas! Drmies (talk) 14:22, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

What Drmies said. Only louder. KNOCK IT OFF, BOTH OF YOU. Do not carry out little petty wars in public, and above all, DO NOT CARRY THEM OUT ON OTHER PEOPLE'S TALK PAGES. You two have been to ANI before over your public warring, and for a while I thought you had learned something, but no. Just stop. Right now. Don't argue. Don't justify. Don't give us this childish "he started it!" nonsense. Just stop. The only additional thing you should say here is a single-sentence apology to Drmies, for cluttering up his talk page with this crap. (Drmies, sorry to reply here but this seems to be where the discussion is.) --MelanieN (talk) 14:49, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

He started it and that just fact. You never warn him for butting into me just when I do. How sad.LuciferWildCat (talk) 21:21, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

I disagree with Lady about the age. I think it's the terrible two's. "He started it." "No, he started it." "Mommy, how come you always let him do it, but when I do it, I get punished?" "Life's just unfair, dear." This whole discussion should be removed (including my comments, of course).--Bbb23 (talk) 00:38, 26 May 2012 (UTC)