User talk:FMSky/Archive 3

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Dave Mustaine

Just realized like half of the article is lacking sources... time to get to work. X-750 Rust In Peace... Polaris 09:51, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Selena

Hey bro, I have just clarified where the Mexican roots come from with singer Selena, may you please check? Greetings. TheBellaTwins1445 (talk) 19:03, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

@TheBellaTwins1445: I dont know if this source is reliable but it's better than what was there before FMSky (talk) 19:06, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
Well is the best we can find on the web about it, if you check the page it has full information on who that man was and who where his children and all that stuff, out of that I do not think there are more public pages where we can show where the Mexican roots come from. TheBellaTwins1445 (talk) 19:09, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Prior to/before

https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/prior-to-versus-before#:~:text=If%20you're%20wondering%20whether,one%20is%20from%20Anglo%20Saxon.&text=Prior%20to%20is%20an%20acceptable,before%20is%20the%20better%20choice.

Haldraper (talk) 05:12, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Question 4 u

Why are you reverting my 'Oxford comma' edits to my articles lol? I was under the impression that grammar matters. Guess who's wrong?

SpicyMemes123 (talk) 02:06, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) @SpicyMemes123: WP:Oxford comma: "Wikipedia has no preference between the two styles". Robby.is.on (talk) 07:21, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
If the Oxford comma is acceptable why'd he revert, like, ten of my edits?
SpicyMemes123 (talk) 16:00, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Only FMSky can answer that. But when Wikipedia has no preference, there is no reason for introducing it and you probably shouldn't per MOS:STYLEVAR. Doing that just adds noise to other editors' watchlists. Robby.is.on (talk) 17:13, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Okay, you see, that is a reasonable response. I thought I was getting bullied or trolled when I discovered that a near-dozen of my recent changes were rolled back. Thank you, Robby.
SpicyMemes123 (talk) 22:13, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
You're welcome. I understand that. Happy editing, Robby.is.on (talk) 23:08, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Apology

Sorry for assuming you were edit stalking. That was quite reactionary of me TheXuitts (talk) 00:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

no worries ;) --FMSky (talk) 01:00, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Confusion about stance on MOS:OVERLINK

Hey, I have seen you remove Swedes on several articles now, this is despite that it is not a major example of an ethnicity/nationality. On the other hand looking at this discussion you argue for New York City to be linked which is a direct example on MOS:OVERLINK as.. an overlink. What gives? --TylerBurden (talk) 04:38, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

I dont argue to link NYC at all, in fact i remove it whenever i come across. Also Swedes are a major nationality but whatever --FMSky (talk) 04:40, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
It certainly looked like you were doing so in the linked discussion, as the person on the other end said multiple times. Sweden is a small country, many people don't even know it exists, so you knowing it doesn't mean everyone reading Wikipedia will, as MOS states: try to be conscious of your own demographic biases – what is well known in your age group, line of work, or country may be less known in others. Also maybe avoid calling people "clown", WP:NPA is a thing and it isn't some subjective manual, it's policy. TylerBurden (talk) 04:48, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
"Sweden is a small country, many people don't even know it exists", lmao what? i highly doubt that -- FMSky (talk) 04:54, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
You can doubt it all you want, that's not any reason for you to try and enforce your own understanding of what is an overlink and what is not, espescially when you make hypocritical edits like you did related to NYC. TylerBurden (talk) 04:56, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
"that's not any reason for you to try and enforce your own understanding of what is an overlink". i could say the same exact thing to you... especially since it seems that you're the only one who thinks like that https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Anthony_Elanga&diff=1053177741&oldid=1053176655 FMSky (talk) 05:03, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
Digging through edits all the way back to November, the month I started editing actively, to try and prove some kind of point with a person removing a link to Sweden which is not even the link in question, is certainly one way to respond to everything I have been saying here. Good work detective. TylerBurden (talk) 05:06, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
Here's a more recent example: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=PewDiePie&diff=prev&oldid=1092227190 Everyone who has visited elementary school knows what Sweden or Swedes is/are --FMSky (talk) 05:09, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
So other people have in my opinion the wrong impression about what major examples mean, the links are generally left alone, but once in a while someone like you comes along removing links to a nation with a population smaller than numerous US states, thinking that just because you know them everyone will. You're making a lot of bold claims about what other people know, and I think not reflecting on being aware of demographic biases at all. But you have stopped edit warring, I was mostly curious about your hypocrisy which you still haven't really addressed, but like you said, whatever. This is a waste of time, I'd say WP:BRD would be good in the future, if you feel so strongly about removing links to small nations and peoples, then gain consensus for it on said talk pages. TylerBurden (talk) 05:17, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
I also don't appreciate WP:HOUNDING, btw, if that is what you are planning, I doubt you just happened to pop up on Alexander Gustafsson. Thanks for sorting MOS issues on it though. TylerBurden (talk) 05:21, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
I dont plan anything.. in fact i'd be happy if you left me alone --FMSky (talk) 05:28, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
Great, then don't follow me around. Peace. TylerBurden (talk) 05:32, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Phoebe Tonkin

You're up, if you want to revert this time. I'm not going to be the only one who reverts on this. (FTR, this is a relatively new editor, and I'm not the only one who has had problems with them.) --IJBall (contribs • talk) 06:01, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Nah i'm not going to bother, i don't want to get involved in another case --FMSky (talk) 06:02, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

You

You're not using talk pages. The topic has been decided; you're going off half-cocked.Pictureperfect2 (talk) 21:00, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

With Tonkin you could discuss on the requisite talk page her having been a model. From there it could be mentioned in the article, she could be identified as being both a model and actress, or both things.Pictureperfect2 (talk) 21:05, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

The modelling is mentioned but only in one sentence in the entire article (that also has a "citation needed" tag). So even if she has ever modelled, she's definitely not notable for it and it shouldnt be included as one of her occupations. --FMSky (talk) 21:08, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
You could certainly use a more humble tone on this site. I went back and put the tag up even though I feel you are incorrect. We can discuss these things. I'd like to know why you feel so invested in something with this much inconsequence.Pictureperfect2 (talk) 21:11, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
my last edit on that page was on 30 May and i even said i wont bother, so what are you even talking about? FMSky (talk) 21:13, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
If you want to go to each article where people are triple threat (act, sing, dance) or more (modeling) and "correct" them... that seems out of place . Nevertheless if you write about the modeling career a bit I guess you could leave info out. Plus someone does not currently have to be in an activity to be known for it.Pictureperfect2 (talk) 21:15, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
CN tags? You're a user who is never pro-active and fills in info and then removes said tag?Pictureperfect2 (talk) 21:16, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 14

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Tony Gilham Racing, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Ben Wallace.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 09:04, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

I not the Federal Cleaning Crew

... that comes after you when you blow helter-skelter, harum-scarum, through a page. Next time do what you cite Fowler&fowler«Talk» 08:32, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

actually, i already stated MOS:CURLY before: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bhagat_Singh&diff=1093351405&oldid=1093307192 --FMSky (talk) 09:01, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

puss in boots

Hey dude my name is Jack I just want to ask why you removed my character descriptions on Puss in boots the last wish 2600:1000:B11F:AD8:C04E:F981:32B4:F980 (talk) 20:49, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi, this has been a disputed edit and has been reverted a bunch of times. Find consensus first before reinstating --FMSky (talk) 20:51, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Pending changes reviewer granted

Hello. Your account has been granted the "pending changes reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on pages protected by pending changes. The list of articles awaiting review is located at Special:PendingChanges, while the list of articles that have pending changes protection turned on is located at Special:StablePages.

Being granted reviewer rights neither grants you status nor changes how you can edit articles. If you do not want this user right, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time.

See also:

Arbitrarily0 (talk) 05:39, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

SZA

Sza was born in 1989. She has her birth year on her album cover and has stated her age in multiple interviews. @JayOntherun: Then add a source to it FMSky (talk) 13:49, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

Billboard refers to Sza as a 23 year old. (Article May 2013). Making her 23 in 2013, and 39 in 2020, turning 31 in November. https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/the-juice/1563547/sza-talks-quitting-her-day-job-working-with-other-emile-haynie

Complex refers to Sza as 23 year old in September 2013. https://www.complex.com/music/2013/09/who-is-sza/

Rolling Stone refers to her as a 23 year old in their article dated November 4, 2013. 4 days away from turning 24. https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/meet-sza-kendrick-lamars-newest-labelmate-54484/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by JayOntherun (talk • contribs) 14:01, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

Names of minors

Hello FMSky. On the article Shay Mitchell, you reverted several edits, saying the names of minors shouldn't be posted. Could you elaborate on that? The only reason I could now think of is child protection and BLP, but her name has been made public by her mother, it says it in the source. Thank you. ~~ lol1VNIO (I made a mistake? talk to me • contribs) 17:42, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

I could've sworn there was a guideline to not post kids names if they aren't notable but i can't seem to find it right now, so maybe i'm wrong.--FMSky (talk) 17:55, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
That's WP:BLPNAME. Robby.is.on (talk) 18:36, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
Ah yes that's what i meant, thanks FMSky (talk) 18:38, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
I've restored the content for now FMSky (talk) 17:56, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

No Malice

The problem with this is that the source that was used for No Malice's age actually supports a 1972 birth year. No Malice's original birth year on Wikipedia from years ago listed 1972 as his birth year. So, I feel that my edit was not disruptive and I simply changed an error. WPUNJ (talk) 20:27, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Change to Thomas Lang page

My original edit was a return to an earlier version of the bio. Stop vandalizing this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Qwertymerty3456 (talk • contribs) 01:07, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

@Qwertymerty3456: You aren't allowed to write/edit articles about yourself, Thomas Lang, see WP:COI ---FMSky (talk) 01:09, 22 June 2022 (UTC)


Barend Courbois

Hey friend, I think the only proof we have of Barend recording bass for The God Machine is in a video. Would you like to see it? He was indeed the session musician for the recordings. Johan replaced him some time after he was done. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Friendlyyes (talk • contribs) 13:21, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

Exciter information

Hi FMSky, I am currently trying to update wikis with up-to-date information, and the exciter album Exciter has false information. I've found nothing through Discogs that showed the album was reissued as O.T.T. or that the track "Termination" was a bonus track; It was present on all releases. https://www.discogs.com/master/301979-Exciter-Exciter If you have any concrete proof like a photo of the original track listing without "Termination" or proof it was retitled as O.T.T. please show me. Thanks for your time. Kingofstillport (talk) 20:32, July 19, 2022 (UTC)

@Kingofstillport: Hi, like already stated in my revert, the title is correct, see https://www.allmusic.com/album/ott-mw0000656446 - discogs is btw not a reliable source. --FMSky (talk) 20:38, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Rationale (musician)

Hi, he is described twice in the prose as a songwriter. Also as most songs nowadays are co-written where is the guidance on making the song-writer distinction? Atlantic306 (talk) 20:41, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Joel McIver

Hi FMSky, I am Joel McIver and I occasionally update the bibliography on my page. Is this acceptable? 2A00:23C6:A81:A001:7005:3E21:F62F:3BCA (talk) 05:58, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi, this is all stated under WP:COI, but generally speaking, it is discouraged. --FMSky (talk) 06:12, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation. I'm simply updating the book list, not adding any other material. Given that, does the template message have to stay, or can it be removed? 2A00:23C6:A81:A001:7005:3E21:F62F:3BCA (talk) 07:32, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
Hi FMSky, I've removed the COI template again, having read the WP:COI guidance about what constitutes reasonable grounds for its removal. I haven't added any info other than bibliographical data to keep the entry up to date and will continue to do so. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. 2A00:23C6:A81:A001:7005:3E21:F62F:3BCA (talk) 07:55, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Super Cat

Sugar Ray’s “Fly” was not a number one hit. It was never released as a commercial single. Back then,that was the criteria to enter the Billboard Hot 100. Smokiewight (talk) 18:22, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

I have made no assumptions. That is fact.Look it up on Billboard.com and how is it random? Smokiewight (talk) 22:44, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

@Smokiewight: That was about another guy's comment. I have already corrected the edit in the Super Cat article --FMSky (talk) 22:45, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Irrelevant?

[1]

Per your edit summary, your suggestion that he was born in the Falklands is irrelevant, seems to show a remarkable lack of knowledge about the subject, since that is what he actually known for. I'm not going to indulge you in an edit war but per WP:BRD I would strongly suggest that you self-revert and take your issue to the talk page. WCMemail 10:23, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

I should have clarified, it is not notable for the opening sentence, see MOS:LEADSENTENCE ---FMSky (talk) 10:31, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
I disagree with your interpretation of the MOS and I don't see your changes as improving the article. Again I'm going to ask you to self-revert whilst there is a discussion. WCMemail 10:36, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Assist page

Hello. Please don't revert my edition. The statistics are completely true and I have a lot of information about assist statistics; so I can even make the list better. You can see the sources. 10Blaugrana10 (talk) 00:38, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

@10Blaugrana10: the sites "messi.com" and "messivsronaldo.app" aren't reliable sources --FMSky (talk) 00:42, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

They are reliable and famous. Their statistics are true. But if you have problems with them, I will replace them with other sources. 10Blaugrana10 (talk) 00:47, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

FMSky is right. By Wikipedia definitions, messivsronaldo.app is very likely not a reliable source. Messi's official website is not independent; see WP:SELFSOURCE. Also, your use of Youtube videos in this change is WP:Original research. Please familiarise yourself with Wikipedia's sourcing requirements. Robby.is.on (talk) 01:02, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Filk music

Filk is by no means an exclusively U.S. phenomenon; I live in the States, and the two most recent filks I participated in were both in England. --Orange Mike | Talk 00:17, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Can I ask you a question

Why is David Jason a comedian and not just an actor and Sylvester McCoy is just an actor? Thanks. Rodericksilly (talk) 16:09, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

Should probably be removed there too, i didn't even notice it. --FMSky (talk) 16:12, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

the Disney ride page

I wasn’t vandalizing it I was adding that so Megadeth fans who got to the page on accident can go to where they want to Ytzesza (talk) 12:36, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Privated vs privatised in the Dodie page

You have recently reverted my edit changing privatised to privated. Privatised is typically defined as "transfer (a business, industry, or service) from public to private ownership and control". This is not what has happened here. Privated may not be a word in dictionaries, but it is a word used to describe the action of making a video private, making it a useful distinction from privatised, and a more accurate word in that sentence. Note the wiktionary page https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/private#Verb here it describes the use of the word private as a verb (as compared to privatise) to make something private. The past tense version given is privated. So whilst the standard dictionaries may not have caught up, the word privated is a word that is used, and is more accurate in this situation Farleigheditor (talk) 17:41, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

Rangeblock

I just rangeblocked this range for unsourced edits. I noticed that you had reverted them a few times across a number of their IPs, so I thought you may be interested in case you wanted to spot check some of their remaining edits. No worries if not.-- Jezebel's Ponyobons mots 21:11, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Dan Wilson page changes

why was the photo changed? we manage the page Jgm mgt (talk) 18:01, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

thanks for that info, the page was tagged accordingly (WP:COI). also, just because "you manage the page" doesn't mean other people arent allowed to edit it. --FMSky (talk) 18:19, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Twiggy ramierez article

I’m a new editor man I don’t know how to insert sources Ytzesza (talk) 00:06, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

@Ytzesza: Hi, you just need to click on insert the link and click 'generate' --FMSky (talk) 00:15, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Thank you man Ytzesza (talk) 01:53, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Susanna Hoffs

This one might be better, Susanna Hoffs 2006.jpg, more of a front on view, just an idea. Cheers, - FlightTime (open channel) 02:27, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Was already in use further down and is pretty outdated but i dont mind switching it --FMSky (talk) 02:29, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
Sorry, didn't notice it further down, but again just an idea. Have a great day, - FlightTime (open channel) 02:46, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Portia

According to MOS:CAP, these captions are sentence _fragments_ not full sentences, which is why they are not punctuated with a period. That said, they _are_ normally capitalized. I think that corrupting her name in this way for a fragment is unwarranted, but I won't revert. Blainster (talk) 16:10, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

The devil you know article

It counts as a sabbath album as it was recorded with the mob rules era lineup also Black Sabbath’s official catalog includes it Ytzesza (talk) 17:40, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Northpark 1417

Hi, please don't re-add udp tags that I have removed from their articles. I added the tags in the first place and have checked them for neutrality before removing them. Also the udp case which I started was far from watertight and rested on Northparks refusal to confirm or deny any coi rather than compelling evidence apart from his use of high quality photos that he claimed as his own work, regards Atlantic306 (talk) 19:29, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Amazed

Edit warring? Really? If that is the tone you are taking, I am out of the discussion. Nl maclean (talk) 15:08, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Motley Crue shout at the Devil page

Don’t add [[ around it it’s not a page redirects to the album Ytzesza (talk) 15:01, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Phil Collins

Regarding your revert here. Reverting constructive edits without explanation, particularly when they specifically address what you said on a previous revert, is poor Wikipedia etiquette. If you have an issue with my edit, please say what it is. Thanks. Escape Orbit (Talk) 10:07, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

August 2022

Information icon Hello. I have noticed that you often edit without using an edit summary. Please do your best to always fill in the summary field. This helps your fellow editors use their time more productively, rather than spending it unnecessarily scrutinizing and verifying your work. Even a short summary is better than no summary, and summaries are particularly important for large, complex, or potentially controversial edits. To help yourself remember, you may wish to check the "prompt me when entering a blank edit summary" box in your preferences. Thanks! - FlightTime (open channel) 19:16, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Is Johnny Vanzant married?

I 2603:6010:C100:B7:440E:E713:99C9:D86F (talk) 03:44, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Arelene Foster

Hi there, you reverted my changes on the Arlene Foster page on the basis it has to be notable. If someone already has a page, how is it not notable to include their career i.e. they were a practising solicitor and remains a qualified solicitor in Northern Ireland (but not practising). It is notable because it provides context to the persons overall life time achievements and it is mentioned in mumerous credible sources. If your logic was followed through to conclusion then the majority of the content should then also be purged. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheSquareMile (talk • contribs) 09:38, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi there, I see you haven't given me the courtesy of a reply. I assume based on my argument it is fine to include reference to a high-profile politician's career (when they were (1) a member of a local council, (2) member of the NI local assembly, (3) then became a government minister in NI meaning they had to devote their full-time to that job and left their profession as a practising solicitor.----- TheSquareMile (talk) 15:44, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

I'm just arab

أنت شيليلولكتيتالالف. أودفلاوات. سأكون نجما. تم. إزكير. التخفي ماغنيت إيفانوفيتش بروفيرو. مخروط. الفيضانات. الجنس الكحول. الكوكيز. (لولفلفدف). عنها. يليلفلكول(فاك يو). منظمة العفو الدولية تقريبا قد تنمو سفااااستيك. في الداخل. ريما. أن هذا هو الحال.- ماك. أوفويلففالالوشكلوشكلششبات. إيتسوكين إيفانوفيتش فلولكوششالالكلكششيشششالالالالالالالليوجلاو. I love you Mr. Hard Mustard (talk) 14:51, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Mandingo

Ty for the pleasant discussion earlier :) Stephanie921 (talk) 19:18, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Constant reversions

Hello. Reaching out because I've noticed you've reverted rather a lot of my edits. Not trying to start an edit war with you, but please kindly explain why you did so. You've used the word "bulldoze" a few times I see, which isn't that descriptive since I merely added sourced material and credits, and rephrased clunky wording. It looks like you have a problem with awards being noted in the first paragraph of the lede? Its actually rather common, see: Meryl Streep, Al Pacino, Daniel Day-Lewis, Julie Andrews, Viola Davis, Denzel Washington, Saoirse Ronan etc. Would love to discuss with you before you just revert what you don't agree with. It would especially be more constructive to comment on talk page as well before reverting. Thanks.The One I Left (talk) 14:27, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi, like i already said, the opening paragraph should say what the person is known for first and foremost, not how many awards he has received. Look here for example, how is anyone supposed to know who the guy even is https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dave_Chappelle&oldid=1104718486 -- see WP:FIRSTSENTENCE and more generally WP:Manual of Style/Lead section -- FMSky (talk) 14:38, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
Yeah I just don't agree with your position. Nowhere in that WP:Manual of Style/Lead section does it support your claim but it supports mine in reference to my edits w Dave Chappelle. Also by your logic, are you gonna change and revert the articles for Meryl Streep, Al Pacino, Daniel Day-Lewis, Julie Andrews, Viola Davis, Denzel Washington, Saoirse Ronan?The One I Left (talk) 14:44, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
MOS:LEADBIO
   *Name(s) and title(s), if any (see also WP:NCNOB). Handling of the subject's name is covered under MOS:NAMES.
   *Dates of birth and death, if found in secondary sources (do not use primary sources for birth dates of living persons or other private details about them).
   *Context (location, nationality, etc.) for the activities that made the person notable.
   *One, or possibly more, noteworthy positions, activities, or roles that the person held, avoiding subjective or contentious terms.
   *The main reason the person is notable (key accomplishment, record, etc.)

an opening paragraph that just contains "...XY is an american actor. He has received multiple awards, including XY, and was rated YX" is useless --FMSky (talk) 14:52, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

So you agree! You reverted a bunch of my edits, saying awards should not be in lead, and literally one of those is "key accomplishment, record, etc." I really don't want have to undo your reversions but I might. Definitely don't recommend mass reverting without talking to editor or opening it up for discussion. You also never answered my question re: Meryl Streep, Al Pacino, Daniel Day-Lewis, Julie Andrews, Viola Davis, Denzel Washington, Saoirse Ronan?The One I Left (talk)
I SHOULDN'T BE THE ONLY INFO IN THE LEAD, OK? --FMSky (talk) 14:58, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
That's fine, I'm not sure why you reverted tho instead of adding a line or two. Also again, literally, Meryl Streep, Al Pacino, Daniel Day-Lewis, Julie Andrews, Viola Davis, Denzel Washington, Saoirse Ronan have the "problems" you're upset about. Are you going to revert and resort them?The One I Left (talk) 15:00, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
I might once i've cleaned up the other mess. Also instead of telling me to discuss on a talk page first, why dont you do that before rewriting an entire lead? --FMSky (talk) 15:01, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
"Other mess" lol I don't understand why you're all hot and bothered and don't just write a few extra lines in between. You're reversions seem to want to add all of filmography into the first paragraph of the lede, which looks clunky as hell see: Billy Crystal. Again, you are the only one with this issue. Would be interesting to see what kind of feedback you get with your reversions of Meryl Streep, Al Pacino, Daniel Day-Lewis, Julie Andrews, Viola Davis, Denzel Washington, Saoirse Ronan etc.The One I Left (talk) 15:06, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
This is still more informative than a list of awards that tells absolutely nothing. It doesnt have to be a laundry list of films, literally just the best known role / breakout role would be enough. Even though its overused, but the "he/she is best known for" is often the simplest and best way. After that the awards can be mentioned if necessary--FMSky (talk) 15:11, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
So are you going to revert Saoirse Ronan, Carey Mulligan, Elisabeth Moss, Kate Winslet, etc. Because that's literally what the first paragraph in the lede is.The One I Left (talk) 15:13, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
No it isnt. They all say what the person is known for (even though its very short in some cases). The Dave Chappelle one literally didnt mention anything. --FMSky (talk) 15:20, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
LMFAOOOO. You can't be serious. You really reverted a bunch of stuff when you could've added literally two or three words. Why didn't you just add that?? I'm really trying to understand you, first you said you wanted to name a few credits, but now you're saying you can say a few words. For Betty White's first lede paragraph, I was thinking, "(Name birth date etc..) A pioneer of early television, White was noted for her lengthy career in television acting in sitcoms as well as her numerous appearances on game shows. She received etc awards". Fine by you? The One I Left (talk) 15:22, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
The lead of that article is perfectly fine, it doesnt need changing at all FMSky (talk) 15:43, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
and literally the awards are already mentioned in the bottom lead paragraph FMSky (talk) 15:45, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
There are several things wrong with that article lmao. First off, it name drops Mayor of Hollywood which isn't notable at all, it names obscure early shows when it should just introduce who she is and what she's BEST known for. The lede for Betty White is overstuffed with redundant and superfluous "accomplishments". It's a mess. Reads like a fanboy's website and not as a legitimate lede. I would remove unnoteworthy awards such as American Comedy Awards and move that to the front so it should read as I previous mentioned. I would be a much cleaner accurate first paragraph for lede. The way it is now is sloppy The One I Left (talk) 15:50, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
Ok but why didnt you do that in your first attempt (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Betty_White&oldid=1107431585) then ??
That's what I did!! To what specifically are you referring to? Now I know your point of view I will add the sentence, "A pioneer of early television, White was noted for her lengthy career in television acting in sitcoms as well as her numerous appearances on game shows." in the first paragraph of lede.
I literally dont see anything wrong with the opening paragraph at all, its actually a textbook example of a well-written one. So please, discuss your changes on the article's talk page first before changing againFMSky (talk) 16:04, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
Wait I'm so confused. So why did you revert it if it's the textbook example of a well-written one?? The One I Left (talk) 16:06, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
I mean the way its currently is...FMSky (talk) 16:08, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
That is wilddd. I don't understand how name dropping Mayor of Hollywood and an obscure tv show in the first paragraph of the lede is "textbook example of a well-written lede" I'm trying to understand your thought process but you're just full of contradictions. lmfao

To me this is a perfect lede:
Betty Marion White (January 17, 1922 – December 31, 2021) was an American actress and comedian. A pioneer of early television, White was noted for her lengthy career in television acting in sitcoms as well as her numerous appearances on game shows. White has received various accolades including five Primetime Emmy Awards, two Daytime Emmy Awards, a Regional Emmy Award, three Screen Actors Guild Awards, and a Grammy Award. She earned a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, and was inducted in the Television Hall of Fame. The One I Left (talk) 16:19, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

dont you think this is kinda of relevant: "being one of the first women to work both in front of and behind the camera. She was the first woman to produce a sitcom (Life with Elizabeth) in the United States". again, propose the changes on the articles talk page please FMSky (talk) 16:23, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
So yes! But not in the first paragraph of the lede. I'm specifically talking about the first paragraph. I would add it in the second paragraph, and I would remove "in the United States" its redundant and unnecessary".The One I Left (talk) 16:26, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
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