User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång/Archive 5

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Reliable Sources

I am having a 'discussion' on the [Persecution of Christians] talk page concerning whether or not Open Doors can be considered a reliable source. I cited WP's policy on biased sources and reliability and it seems to me it passes that standard. I gave an in text qualification, but this guy says it has to have a third party verification to use it. I can't find that requirement anywhere, is that correct? He is calling it a self-published source, and I guess it is in a way. I have found most of what Open Doors says in other sources, so I can probably satisfy his requirement, but he says never use a source that is an advocate, and I don't think there are any human rights organizations that aren't advocates. Even the State department Commission and Council practice advocacy. Is this a WP standard I need to know? Jenhawk777 (talk) 20:13, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi! Never heard of them, but WP:BIASEDSOURCES is one of the things I also would look at. There may also be an aspect of WP:DUE, as in does anybody care what Open Doors say about stuff? Can they be argued to have a reputation for factchecking and accuracy? Off the top of my head, I don't know any clearer guidance than that. Have you seen Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_264#Open_Doors_:_Persecution_of_Christians? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:57, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Jenhawk777, don't continue discussing on the archive page, those aren't meant for that. You can start a new RSN thread Like "Open Doors, again" and ping people there, and include a link to the old discussion. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:57, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Btw, did you ever hear anything from the Journal of Religion and Human Relations people? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:24, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

HAH! I think I've been plagiarized too! I wrote this section Halime_Hatun#Halime_Hatun_grave_in_Gevaş and this blog [1] comes pretty close. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:17, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

I went to that link and answered then the page flipped automatically to the top and I saw it was archived so I tried to remove it but it was too late. I'm such an idiot sometimes. It's not worth the fight. Using it means verifying with third party sources anyway, since it is a biased source, so I'll just use those - even though they say the same things. The advantage of Open Doors is like PEW - they collate the data that everyone uses from the State department - but it's still all the same data.

No, I never heard back. I am up to four different backwards copies on that article now. UGH!

Thanx for your help - again. Jenhawk777 (talk) 22:03, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Quite the collection. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:18, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Following

You wanna stop following me around? PailSimon (talk) 16:05, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Fwiw, I am not. That page is (also, like Obama) on my WP:WATCHLIST, and as you can see I have edited it before. Perhaps our interests overlap a little? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:08, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Why did you revert my section on Tom Brier's page

Hey,

I was just wondering why you decided to revert my edits on Tom Brier's page. Yes there was barely anything on it that point, but right after that edit was made, I went in and wrote literally like 4 more sections. Now I'm really really frustrated and upset because I put in all that effort for it to go to nothing because it conflicted with the edit you decided to make. Why did you think it was appropriate to revert that initial edit so quickly? Thomasgilbertie (talk) 22:11, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

I saw this Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Tom_Brier and at the time I looked [2] there were no WP:BLP-good refs that indicated that this should be a WP-article, so it seemed the right thing to do. If you have those sources, consider starting as a WP:DRAFT. But Help:Edit conflicts is a pain in the ass. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 22:23, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Okay thanks for the clarification! I and another user are working on a draft right now so hopefully, it'll get approved after that. In regards to the edit conflict, it already erased my progress so I'm back at square one essentially, so going on the help page at this page is not necessary. But thanks for the help anyways! Thomasgilbertie (talk) 22:50, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Extended protection for Ertugrul related articles

Can we get that? I am not familiar with that protection stuff. It is annoying really. Beshogur (talk) 13:03, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Beshogur, per the instructions at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection, one can ask for several articles at once, but I've never done that, only one at a time (I discovered that was pretty easy). There's evidence that this is a wider problem [3][4][5][6]. I know that admins don't want to be draconic without good reason. MelanieN, care to comment? Basically, TV-fans edits history, and it's annoying. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:22, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Newslinger, thanks and FYI. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:41, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

No problem. I've semi-protected the Gündüz Alp article for one week and applied pending-changes protection for one month. The Diriliş: Ertuğrul article is harder to justify protecting, since a significant proportion of edits submitted by non-autoconfirmed users appear to be legitimate and the editing pace is also too fast for pending changes to be useful. I hope this helps. — Newslinger talk 11:23, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

And thanks again Newslinger. The IP:s at Diriliş: Ertuğrul are currently focusing on plot and cast, which is fairly harmless, though it's looking a bit WP:FANCRUFTy. I made a suggestion on talk, we'll see if it catches on. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:33, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Newslinger, based on the edit-history on Gündüz Alp since you added pending-changes, it could be a good idea to extend that. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:59, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done. You're absolutely right. I've extended the semi-protection to one month from today. Thanks for the notice. — Newslinger talk 09:29, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Help Osman

I am making an article called, 'List of Kuruluş: Osman characters (Draft:List of Kuruluş: Osman characters)', and, I don't know how to cite it, I can't use primary sources (I think), like from the actual TV program itself, but I can't find any other sources anywhere. Can you help? I am specifically asking you because you've watched the show (I think, you seem to make a lot of edits on Ottoman-related articles), and you're good at citing stuff. Limorina (talk) 20:47, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello Limorina! You should be able to find "X plays Y in the series" refs easily, and I see you added several. Avoid Twitter, see WP:SELFPUB. In cases like "Burak Özçivit[2] as Osman Bey[2]" you shouldn't add the ref twice, the second time is enough. About citing plot-elements, as long as you don't write too much, most editors seems to accept that a kind of MOS:PLOTSOURCE applies, and you don't have to have inline citations for a brief reasonable description about what a character does onscreen. However, WP-articles are not supposed to go overboard on that, and if other editors thinks there's too much MOS:PLOT, or that there's WP:OR/WP:SYNTH, they may object and delete stuff. More guidance at MOS:TVCAST. Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television may be a good place to ask questions, as is WP:TEAHOUSE.

Your draft looks pretty ok to me, though I'm not sure about the relationships section, I don't think I've seen that before.

I use something called reftoolbar for citing, see WP:TUTORIAL, referencing section. I use "Wiki markup source editor" myself, and edit from a laptop. The reftoolbar has a helpful "autofill" function, though you have to watch it, sometimes you should add some stuff manually, and sometimes it adds the wrong things in the wrong fields.

I've not watched these series myself, but they are an interesting media-phenomenon, and I like to keep history and fiction separate on-WP. A Swedish novelist I like said something like "I love writing stories in this historical period, the sources are few and I can write what the hell I want and it still fits known history. But then I've met people who think they are descendants of characters I made up, that's not good."

Hope this helps a little. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:50, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks!--Limorina (talk) 10:01, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi again, I've finished making the draft, I know I shouldn't be asking you this but... can you review it?--Limorina (talk) 10:29, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Limorina, hello again! There's no harm in asking, but I won't. I'm not a reviewer, and I don't know Turkish. But if I may give you one tip: Check under "Improving your odds of a speedy review" in the Review waiting, please be patient. template at the bottom of the draft. Use that to add wikiprojects like WikiProject Television, WikiProject Turkey and WikiProject Ottoman Empire as templates on the talkpage. This increase the chance someone with an interest in those areas will notice your draft quicker. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:51, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

In re...

I bet there's other Liverpudlian terms of endearment that could get one in on-WP trouble. You are not wrong. Not wrong at all. Guy (help! - typo?) 22:31, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

The Brits are a foulmouthed people. Not like the Swedes. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:43, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

JzG And that was one of them? Jeez, one tries to be helpful and get called names... ;-) Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:33, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Gråbergs Gråa Sång, ha! No, not calling you names, calling myself names if anything. Guy (help! - typo?) 12:42, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi!2

Five of my articles have had speedy deletion tags on them all day (I live in the UK), so in that time I've re-wrote everything in my own words. I was just wondering how long it will take an administrator to have a look?--Limorina (talk) 16:49, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Limorina, afaict, whenever an admin feel they should, they're volunteers like the rest of us. According to Category:Candidates for speedy deletion, there's a backlog, so who knows. Here [7] I have a request that's been waiting 160 days (to be fair, it's usually quicker)...

Afaict, Gündoğdu Bey and Sungurtekin Bey now doesn't fit the criteria for speedy deletion, but the sourcing still sucks. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:37, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

October harvest

thank you --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:12, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:53, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Ping

I noticed some pings lately and just wanted to let you know that I'm not ignoring you, I added them on my TODO list for when I can spend the necessary time. Sorry for the late response, —PaleoNeonate – 10:39, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks and no worries! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:40, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

PaleoNeonate [8] So I've been on some sort of suspected criminal list for a year? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:23, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Not that serious of course. But your talk page appeared in Category:User talk pages with Uw-spam3 notices and by extension at Category:User talk pages with spam warnings since almost a year (since it wasn't blanked or archived since) and I don't think there's a current spamming concern. —PaleoNeonate – 13:04, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

That'll teach me to blank more... I guess you could check with Guy Macon if you like, but thanks for the lesson. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:13, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Since I noticed the request about archiving and it was also related to the above (the category would have moved to an archive page if not blanked and moved there), I wondered if you wanted help with configuring a bot to automatically do it. If so, feel free to ask and I offer to help. Since they're dumb robots, they rely on timestamps that are part of signatures to know when to archive a thread. This means that any thread without one will remain on the talk page. Most also will observe {{DNAU}} if present so it's possible to "pin" a thread using it. A popular alternative is to use a tool that allows to quickly select threads and move them to another page, like the OneClickArchiver gadget (I've never used it but Wikipedia:One click archiving seems related. It's possible that a new active version is already part of selectable "gadgets" in the WP account preferences. —PaleoNeonate – 07:38, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, I may take you up on that. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:31, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

PaleoNeonate, I tried to install an automatic archive, but it doesn't seem to be actually archiving stuff. Help? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:14, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

It seems to work, afterall, —PaleoNeonate – 05:31, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Ah, the old sleeponit method. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:22, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

I have a question about editing on Wikipedia...

Am I allowed to upload images that are from a scene in a TV show or from the front cover of a book? Limorina (talk) 18:19, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Limorina Gaaah, Wikipedia:Non-free content. As I understand it, you can have a low-res image of a bookcover in a WP-article about that book, nowhere else. If we have an article about a fictional character, dito, but not in a list like List of Game of Thrones characters. Note also that non-free content should be uploaded on WP, not Commons. WP is really strict about Non-free content, and I'm not sure that the posters in the DE and KU articles should actually be there. You can try Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:45, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

New ideas re: Dede Wilson

I left some links on my Talk section...still not sure where to leave messages for you

Dédé — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dedewilsonchef&author (talk • contribs) 20:16, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Dedewilsonchef&author, Afaict, you didn't add any links anywhere. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:47, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

ImageS

I can work on this! My business partner has taken images of me and can help...wont be today though. This is SO EXCITING Thank you

Dédé — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dedewilsonchef&author (talk • contribs) 14:30, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

No rush. You add comments to an ongoing discussion by clicking "edit source" at the top of it and then adding your reply at the bottom. Try also to WP:SIGN. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:47, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Help2

I hate to put you on the spot but I am in real need. I put Biblical criticism up for FA review a month ago. It is its second time being nominated. I failed to complete the process the first time because of leaving WP so suddenly, and now it is getting little response. I am putting out a call to everyone I know because the coordinator has said if it doesn't get more interest he will archive it. It needs a source review - someone willing to randomly check sources to be sure they actually say what the text says. There are too many for anyone to do alone, but doing any at all, even just one, would be deeply appreciated. Post it here. If it fails again I'm afraid that will be the end of it. Please help if you can.Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:29, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Glad to see you got some response. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 23:12, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Yes! I am trying to stay calm but without you there how can that be expected of me?  :-) Jenhawk777 (talk) 07:44, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Unreferenced additions to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristin_Dattilo

I'm just an IP gnome who browses the wiki while bored at work, and BLP/referencing stuff confuses me, so I thought I'd mention this to you. Back in June you did a clean-up of unreferenced additions to the Kristin Dattilo page, and at the beginning of this month another IP came along and added some of the personal stuff back. I think it needs to be removed, but again, BLP and referencing confuse me, and as an IP it might just look like I'm vandalizing stuff. Can you give the page a look? Thanks!199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:10, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Done! Referencing isn't that hard when you get the hang of it, there's good semiautomatic tools to make them "pretty". WP:TUTORIAL can help. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:26, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

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TISSOT

What the heck is TISSOT and what am I violating?Jenhawk777 (talk) 16:23, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Jenhawk777, welcome to the master of obscure. I was referring to the situation that this article, with it's biblical imagery, did not have ONE James Tissot painting in it. I was trying to be funny. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:31, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Art! I could put one in! I went looking for Tissot first as some obscure WP rule, then found an article on the watch manufacturer! I was completely lost! Do you have an opinion on the verbosity of the article in question? Jenhawk777 (talk) 16:50, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Well, it's long, and I'll guess it's one of those articles people can have strong opinions on. That's as far as I'll go at the moment. Earlier today I thought to myself "I'll check what Jenhawk is up to", and you are editing an incredibly long christianity-related article. So that part of my world is as it should be. And as usual with your prez elections, I'm pissed of at you (Americans) for keeping the electoral college after the invention of the telegraph. But we can hope... But it seems a lot of you voted, good job on that, people should vote. Democracy, like Wikipedia, is made by the people who show up.

The level of participation in this election has partially restored my faith in our democracy. I figure you are right, we will survive bad leadership, but we won't survive if the people stop caring and stop participating. So it is looking like Biden, whom I don't really like but dislike less than I dislike Trump. We will see what happens with the Senate. And we need the electoral college, otherwise, the heavily populated states would rule everything. Yes, I periodically show up on Persecution of Christians, like a few other places, but I am not really working on it. If I was I would throw out half of it. There are people who feel very proprietary about it and I am mostly leaving them to it. Do me a favor would you? Quietly go and read my very last posting in the section on crusades and then come back here and tell me if you agree my reasoning is sound and according to WP standards. I can always go and surrender if need be. :-) Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:49, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Nevermind! Once again belligerence wins! I quit trying to reason with them. Jenhawk777 (talk) 20:38, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Interesting discussion. "Knowledge production, at least in the Wikipedia sense, is part collaboration and part combat." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:22, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

I see you didn't quite quit ;-) Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:56, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Hah! Well ... I felt obligated to acknowledge my mistakes whether he did or not, but I have let my original complaint go. Hmmmm ... I should probably go back and restate it! It never really got addressed. Lots of red herrings and obfuscation instead. Even if I don't pursue it, it's still a problem for the article. I really do care about that. Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:35, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

I am working mostly in Christian ethics right now. Come and play if you feel like it. Edit me and make me more concise! Jenhawk777 (talk) 22:51, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Jenhawk, you are admirable, but if there's one topic that sounds more boring than BC it's CE. Don't be too surprised if I pop in anyway. My next project is an article about Kratu (no, not a demon or alien from a tv-series). Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 23:06, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Haha! I expect most people feel that way. Ethics was my field of study though, so I am not being admirable, just following my muse. I find every detail fascinating! No accounting for taste huh? :-) Jenhawk777 (talk) 07:43, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

I think pretty much any long-term WP-editor will understand fascination of details. Right Limorina? Limorina, meet Jenhawk777, Jenhawk777, meet Limorina. WP is sometimes like a multi-dimensional crossword puzzle, Tri-Dimensional Chess is childsplay by comparison. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:47, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång and Jenhawk777: Yes! I do find every single piece of information quite fascinating, I mostly edit articles that are early-Ottoman-themed or related to my two fav TV shows Diriliş: Ertuğrul and Kuruluş: Osman and especially on the historical articles, I find almost everything interesting! Limorina (talk) 19:43, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello Limorina! How lovely to meet a friend of Grabergs - a fave of mine. I mostly edit what Grabergs calls lengthy minutely detailed articles on Christianity - including its history quite often. I am particularly fond of history though it is an avocation I have come to later. Tell me about your favorite shows. I don't think we have them in yank-land though we do get many British and European shows. I am fond of several of them but I couldn't begin to tell you their names in anything but English. There is a cop show from Finland we admire greatly. If you tell me about them, I might recognize them. We like mysteries.Jenhawk777 (talk) 07:16, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Sure! I'll start a discussion on your talk page! I am extremely excited to get to know you, Jenhawk777! Limorina (talk) 15:32, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Jenhawk777 I sometimes forget that WP-editors can make any topic interesting... At least as spectatorsport. Good luck with the struggle. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:11, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Kratu!

Yay, an image! How did you manage it? —valereee (talk) 17:56, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Valereee The sometimes surprisingly successful baker-method: User_talk:Kratu_the_rescue_dog#Kratu_(dog). And as a cherry on top, my interlocutor actually listened to the part about not using previously published pics. A good day on WP. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:07, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Nice! I too have had generally positive results getting article subjects to upload photos, often by stalking them somewhere offwiki, but shhhh don't tell anyone. :) Academics are the easiest. They have official published emails, they answer them, and in general they understand copyvio concerns. —valereee (talk) 18:45, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Thank you!

		The Friendship Barnstar
		Your understanding and support has no doubt tried you from time to time, but it has made all the difference to me. Thank you. Jenhawk777 (talk) 23:51, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:20, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Scholar pages

Hey, remember when you recommended that I find a reference for a scholar, when they don't have a WP page to link to, that would tell us something about why we should care what they say? You used that who? template and then explained that was why. I started doing this mostly using their university pages thinking those were published by the university, but I have now been told those qualify as self-published sources - they apparently write their own pages and the university just accepts what they say! I was told attribution is only necessary for quotes, and to just red link scholars w/o pages here. I thought I would pass that on in hopes you would pass it on as well. Jenhawk777 (talk) 22:37, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

I'm sure there are grey areas etc, but this doesn't 100% make sense for me. Many scholars shouldn't be redlinked because they probably shouldn't have an article, that's a judgement call for the redlinker. And while I have no insight in the general degree of factchecking on something like [9], it seems unlikely that even if Shelagh Crooks made up her degrees and publications, nobody would have noticed that she made up that she is a professor at that university. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 22:55, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Christian ethics

I appreciated your comment and have posted an RFC, but it keeps showing up under reverts and not as a new section. Do you know how to fix that?Jenhawk777 (talk) 17:14, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

I did something, is it good enough? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:20, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

You're great - of course. Gotten one other no vote already - hey, maybe you should add that no - or not! It's already clear what you meant. And thank you. I'm glad I am at least entertaining even when my subjects are not. :-) Jenhawk777 (talk) 20:31, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Speaking of entertaining, you remember that discussion about if a Biblical story could be used for it's own plot? When it was over, I asked for closure at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Requests_for_closure#Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Scriptural_texts_(WP:RSPSCRIPTURE), and noone has wanted to touch it for half a year. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:46, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

oh for heaven's sakes! :-) Jenhawk777 (talk) 21:28, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

I will now sleep on the CE Rfc, so please have sorted out when I wake up tomorrow. That's not much to ask, is it? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:35, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

I don't think I'm going to get much cooperation with that! But sleep well anyway - and dream of large women - as Wesley said in the Princess Bride one of the greatest movies if all time. Good night! Jenhawk777 (talk) 21:50, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

I should see that, I heard them talk about it on Big Bang Theory. The Rfc seems to be doing ok. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:12, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Btw, if it was unclear. This [10] is because the indenting shows I'm replying to Tahc, not you. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:17, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Okay, sorry! I'm going to blame it on Gareth - I've been hanging out with him too much, and he's always correcting my mistakes for me. He's clearly a bad influence. Yes, the Rfc is going how we expected, but the other guy doesn't seem to be taking it well. I tried to pour some oil on troubled waters, but last time I did that, someone else showed up and yelled at me and called me names. It doesn't stop me trying to reach out, of course, but we'll just have to see if he can adapt or not. WP is not for wimps! PS - everyone should see the Princess Bride. Jenhawk777 (talk) 05:22, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

See User_talk:Gareth_Griffith-Jones#After_Sally, I'll bow to his "corrections" on his talkpage. And your on your's. And I know good admins who don't indent the way I do, but until someone changes WP:INDENT I'll keep my ways. Hopefully the Rfc can establish "History belongs, obviously", but then there can be joyful debates about length, due-ness, on-topicness of Jews, crusades, recent Polish legislation etc. You'll have plenty of fun.

The Jenhawk Wikipedian, here seen with an occasional Swedish collaborator (And thanks WP for informing me that the bird-croc thing is probably a myth, didn't know that)

I chuckled at the "It's a monstrously large topic" Rfc-comment, because I can "hear" David Attenborough explaining "And this is where we will often find the "Jenhawk" Wikipedian, known for..." nature-documentary-style. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:32, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

What?!? What??? The Jenhawk Wikipedian?!! Where is that? Jenhawk777 (talk) 23:53, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

I'm stealing that picture. :-) Jenhawk777 (talk) 00:01, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Stealing, eh? Beware the guard dog on my userpage. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:25, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

I gave him a treat and he rolled over and let me scratch his tummy. He's mine forever now. Jenhawk777 (talk) 22:38, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Based on his article, that sounds about right. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 23:09, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Happy holidays

This year, many people had COVID to fear,
The holidays are getting near,
One thing that will be clear,
We will still have holiday cheer,
Happy holidays and happy new year!!
From Interstellarity (talk) 13:54, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Thank you and the same to you! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:58, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Hey

Hey you just can't remove the section of the Frederick S. Jaffe page regarding his memo. This was argued at length 4 years ago and fixed the way I had it.DaveJaffe (talk) 21:55, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

I can and I did, for a good reason (WP:BOLD). New discussions can take place at Talk:Frederick S. Jaffe, it's been quiet for awhile. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:58, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

God Jul

★Trekker (talk) is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Don't eat yellow snow!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{subst:User:Flaming/MC2008}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Same to you! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:10, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

~~~ Merry Christmas! ~~~
Joyeux Noël! ~ Buon Natale! ~ Vrolijk Kerstfeest! ~ Frohe Weihnachten!
¡Feliz Navidad! ~ Feliz Natal! ~ Καλά Χριστούγεννα! ~ Hyvää Joulua!
God Jul! ~ Glædelig Jul! ~ Linksmų Kalėdų! ~ Priecīgus Ziemassvētkus!
Häid Jõule! ~ Wesołych Świąt! ~ Boldog Karácsonyt! ~ Veselé Vánoce!
Veselé Vianoce! ~ Crăciun Fericit! ~ Sretan Božić! ~ С Рождеством!
শুভ বড়দিন! ~ 圣诞节快乐！~ メリークリスマス！~ 메리 크리스마스!
สุขสันต์วันคริสต์มาส! ~ Selamat Hari Natal! ~ Giáng sinh an lành!

Hello, Gråbergs Gråa Sång! Thank you for your work to maintain and improve Wikipedia! Wishing you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
Linguist111^talk 23:35, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Spread the WikiLove and leave other users this message by adding {{subst:Multi-language Season's Greetings}}

And God Jul to you too! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:23, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

John Florio-Shakespeare authorship

I think you didn't even bother to read the article from the Guardian that I have added as a reference. Professor Saul Frampton writes after citing plenty of sentences copied from John Florio's works into Shakespeare's plays (editing in the First Folio) writes: "We cannot tell for certain whether the words were written by John Florio or by William Shakespeare" suggesting Florio as the editor in chief of the First Folio (the first collection of Shakespeare plays ever published).Vale.devin (talk) 22:47, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Doesn't make it "the most popular being..." does it. By "talkpage" I meant Talk:Shakespeare authorship question. Also, per "So Shakespeare wrote "Shakespeare". The printing of the First Folio, however, raises another, ultimately more interesting, question." this isn't quite SAQ, is it? And of course WP:LEAD, since there's no mention of Florio in the article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 23:20, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

I struggle to understand what you wrote. Vale.devin (talk) 21:48, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Hopefully you succeeded. Otherwise, Talk:Shakespeare authorship question is the place to discuss improvements to that article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:26, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

Happy New Year and a Prosperous 2021!

Hello Gråbergs Gråa Sång, heartfelt and warm greetings for the New Year 2021. May you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. I am wishing you and your loved ones all the best. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Happy New Year. Happy editing, Jenhawk777 (talk) 04:19, 29 December 2020 (UTC) Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

Thank you Jenhawk777! Drink responsibly, but, you know, not too responsibly. Everything in moderation. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:58, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

Empire AS ^Talk! — is wishing you a Happy New Year! It's the last day of 2024 and tomorrow will be 2025. Hope the coming year brings pleasures for you. Have a prosperous, enjoyable and a productive 2025. This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the New Year cheer by adding {{subst:New Year 2}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Empire AS ^Talk! 13:08, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Limorina (talk) — is wishing you a Happy New Year! It's the last day of 2024 and tomorrow will be 2025. Hope the coming year brings pleasures for you. Have a prosperous, enjoyable and a productive 2025. This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the New Year cheer by adding {{subst:New Year 2}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Gott Nytt År to all the above!

Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:22, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

 :) Thanks. Empire AS ^Talk! 17:41, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Gott Nytt År!

Hejsan, av någon orsak såg jag din jul- och nyårshälsning först nu. Lite sent att svara God Jul nu, men åtminstone kan jag önska dig gott nytt år! :-) Jeppiz (talk) 01:45, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Detsamma! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:00, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Idk if this canvassing or not....

Could you vote on this? I based my arguments on the Dream article after seeing a discussion between you, Hemiauchenia, and Masem. Masem has voted for delete, while Hemiauchenia has voted for keep. It would be nice if you give your two cents on this...Thanks... Regards, Jeromi Mikhael ^(marhata) 09:09, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Jeromi Mikhael, thanks for asking, but I won't get into that one. Fwiw, I think your post here is reasonably within WP:APPNOTE. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:31, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

DiscussionTools update

Hello,

The Editing team has scheduled a major update to mw:Extension:DiscussionTools (the new Reply tool) for next week's deployment train. Since you invoke the feature from a script (I do, too), you're probably going to see that update next week, before it's officially released in the mw:Beta Feature system. The new update will use a similar system for starting a ==New discussion==. As before, full-page wikitext editing will not be affected. There is more information on the project page at mw:Talk pages project/New discussion.

You don't have to do anything about this; I just didn't want you to be surprised. If you encounter problems next week, please ping me or leave a note on the talk page for the project. Thanks, Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 22:11, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Happy New Year

Tahaaleem ^Talk— is wishing you a Happy New Year! It's the last day of 2024 and tomorrow will be 2025. Hope the coming year brings pleasures for you. Have a prosperous, enjoyable and a productive 2025. This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the New Year cheer by adding {{subst:New Year 2}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Tahaaleem ^Talk 13:40, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

^{( Buttinsky)} Did I lose a year somewhere? Jenhawk777 (talk) 22:04, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

...you know what, I didn't notice that. Too much champagne? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:08, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Hah ha!! Let's go with that! It's the fun explanation. :-) Jenhawk777 (talk) 05:53, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

!!!

Well done mate... Sofiairiondo (talk) 10:41, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Hey

I'm not sure if this qualifies to be included here but thought maybe you would know? CUPIDICAE💕 20:27, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Hello Praxidicae in disguise! Per the guidance at Wikipedia:Press coverage, I'd put it at Talk:Nicholas Alahverdian instead, like so:[11]. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:07, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! :) CUPIDICAE💕 21:14, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

WP 20

Thank you for good wishes! - Happy Wikipedia 20, - proud of a little bit on the Main page today, and 5 years ago, and 10 years ago, look: create a new style - revive - complete! I sang in the revival mentioned. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:39, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

... and today Jerome Kohl, remembered in friendship --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:48, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks yet again

Hello GGS. I learned of Christopher Plummer's death an hour ago. Of the many performances filling my memory his General Chang in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country is prominent among them. It makes me grateful that you created Shakespeare and Star Trek and I have sent links to it to a couple friends to read it today. Best regards and have a nice weekend. MarnetteD|Talk 22:47, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

MarnetteD 91 years. Maybe he gets to meet the Bard and talk theatre over a few pints. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 23:32, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

That would be wonderful! MarnetteD|Talk 23:34, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

MarnetteD: Spiking! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:12, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Yowza! That is wonderful G. MarnetteD|Talk 19:55, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Happy Valentine's!

[[file: Box of Valentine Chocolates	center]]	Hello Gråbergs Gråa Sång, Jenhawk777 has given you a metaphorical box of chocolates, for Valentine's Day as a token of her great affection and appreciation of you as a friend, mentor and exemplary editor.! You see, these things promote WikiLove and hopefully this has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a metaphorical box of chocolates! Enjoy! "Sweets for the sweet."
	Happy Valentine's Day from your friend Jenny

Sweet! Thank you! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:04, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

Please

Hi, we talked to you before about Mustafa Kemal Atatürk's brothers/sisters. I added later (other sisters/brothers) But a user said they were unnecessary and undone. You look at the page please? (I talked him, but now no anything answer)Ata Barış (talk) 19:54, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Capitol punishment

Capitol punishment

Capital punishment

Capital punishment

Butting in! Romans 1:26-27 is the only place in the Bible lesbianism is referred to and there is no capitol punishment associated with that NT verse. People who get bent out of shape over homosexuality extend the umbrella of Leviticus etc. but that's their assumption. It isn't stated. Just thought you might want to know. Jenhawk777 (talk) 05:44, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Jenhawk777 Thank you very much. The more I look at that article, the more it annoys me, it's a real fixer-upper. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:10, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Then get going dude! I will swing by and kibbitz after I am finished making waves where I am. :-) Jenhawk777 (talk) 03:43, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

I may, at some point. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:44, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Nice stuff Rose Bulma (talk) 13:43, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Question

Hi Gråbergs Gråa Sång, I wanted to ask you how you can reduce the contents' size, I want to make more subheadings on List of Kuruluş: Osman characters but I'm worried the contents will become too long and it will make the article hard to navigate. Limorina (talk) 21:12, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Hi Limorina. Not quite sure what you mean. If you are talking about something like WP:TOOBIG you are far from there yet. I guess you could delete the casting section, it's not very good and is more often seen in articles for the tv-series themselves, I think. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:10, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Gråbergs Gråa Sång, it's OK now, I found what I was looking for (Template:TOC limit). Limorina (talk) 12:13, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Excellent! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:15, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Yes would u reduce the content size plz Rose Bulma (talk) 13:44, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Ghodasgaon, Jalgaon

User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång Hi can you change my Draft name from Draft: Ghodasgaon (District - Jalgaon) to Ghodasgaon, Jalgaon. 106.195.15.141 (talk) 12:26, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

I won't, I'm not a reviewer. New messages on a talkpage goes at the bottom, and you never have to WP:PING people at their own talkpage, it has no (extra) effect. I'd ping you, but unregistered users can't be pinged. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:33, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

A belated thank you

User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång Back in December you engaged with my brother Dave about the article on Frederick S. Jaffe. In the course of that, you pointed us to a few search results ([5], [6])that were truly valuable. We discovered archival records that we didn't know existed, including our father's response to the same criticisms that we're trying to address today. Those sources strengthen our draft text.

You also suggested that we try WP:APPNOTEing a few places to get others' opinions. It's taken me months to wrap my head around that suggestion, but I'm finally beginning to move on it. I'm not sure how to phrase the request, but I'm in contact with several library contacts who can help. So, once again, a belated thank you! Rickjaffe (talk) 06:27, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Hello Rickjaffe and thank you for your message. I see now I said in December that I would comment on the latest proposal, but I forgot that at some point (or suppressed, it doesn't look much fun from my POV). Now that you've reminded me, I'll make an effort.

Glad it helped. It seems that something "used" by a senator in congress should have a place in the article in some form.

Another thing: Have you considered "donating" an image for the article? If you or someone else have a picture they have taken, that person can upload it with the process that starts here. That is a link to Commons, a sister-site to WP where we keep free images. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:21, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you Gråbergs Gråa Sång for taking another look. We have a beautiful photo taken in uniform in the 1940's. If that were an Army (i.e. Federal Gov't) photo, there would be no copyright. We also have a photo from the 1970's, but I don't know who took that. I'll look into copyright on both. Rickjaffe (talk) 18:31, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Citation Barnstar
	Thank you for your kind help and very clear instruction throughout this very complex process. Of note, I appreciate you vetting additional sources I did not even know about to secure additional support for my article. Barrychoward (talk) 15:07, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you very much! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:28, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Greetings Gråbergs Gråa Sång. Hope you are well. Would you mind taking a look at my current work on the HSC page? I have read through the Wiki guide links you sent regarding notability and verifiablity. It seems like I've cleared out the fluff, and have gone heavy on relevant citations. I will admit that there are not a huge amount of 'secondary' sources that are unrelated to the sector that reference HSC....but the corpus of what is there, is hopefully indicative of a real an viable entity deserving its place on wikipedia. As I've examined other, smaller organizations throughout wiki, many are younger, less established and less "notable" than HSC (subjective analysis of course...but pretty clear in many cases), and somehow they were approved. Many do not have nearly the citations that are in my article (even if the HSC site citations were completely removed), and I do see that many, many organizations cite their own website pages in their article...though of course, always with some other sources justifying their presence otherwise...which I think is the case with HSC. I appreciate any further advice you can give, or if I am ready for a possible publication review. Barrychoward (talk) 17:17, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Barrychoward I'm fine, hope you are too. Looking at other WP-articles for inspiration can be helpful, but. To put it bluntly, for a variety of reasons, WP has a lot of crap. "Rules" have become more strict as WP has aged, and there's a lot of stuff that is imperfect according to our current standards, while new stuff gets more scrutiny. Far from perfect, but pretty much how it is. We (surprise!) have some advice at WP:Other stuff exists. In short, if you're comparing to other WP-stuff, try to compare to good WP-stuff.

You've been working hard. I haven't looked at your sources in detail ("Facebook Groups"? You should look into that one, FB is mostly awful for WP-stuff), but here are some comments:

WP:LEAD, this should be a summary of the important bits in the article, in general there should be nothing here that isn't expanded on in the body.

This is unkind after badgering you about sources, but see WP:Citation overkill. A reviewer is meant to go through these, and you don't want to make their life too difficult.

As I see it, stuff like "There is no fee for new Honorary Members, and HSC does not engage a formal fundraising function" also has a hint of "fluff". You are a part of this org, and that shines through in the text, it's how you would present yourself in your own material, not how spying Martians would describe you. I'm vague, but perhaps you get my meanining. Last year I encountered someone at the Teahouse who asked for help creating an article about them. I looked into it, and created Dede Wilson (baker). It's probably not all that she hoped for, but OTOH no one has nominated it for deletion. On a similar note I created Kratu (dog), that was fun. "No, of course we're not going to have an article about your do... Ok, The Times knows who he is."

Hope this helps some. I'm not sure the draft will pass a review, but it may, and I think you should try submitting it. If you want to give it a go, add {{subst:submit}} at the top of your draft, this adds a template, and then wait (but check where it says "Improving your odds of a speedy review"). Perhaps edit something completely different you're interested in meanwhile. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:40, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Gråbergs Gråa Sång this in extremely helpful, and gives me perspective on the evolution of scrutiny, as well as how to balance the citations. "spying Martians" is an excellent metaphor for the approach, and I do see my own fluff in there. I'll keep honing it and incorporate your suggestions. Really appreciate the time you took to give me some updated analysis!Barrychoward (talk) 15:16, 8 March 2021 (UTC) I chopped the first paragraph down to the bare bones description of what is included in the body of the article. Reduced the number of citations, removing anything that was referenced in minor way, or by a lineage society, or with HSC's own website (except for 2 later in the body). Added a governance section because it was removed from the opening paragraph, but is a factual element of the entity. Further reduced anything in the body seemed "advertisement" or self serving. For some reason it will not let me publish the changes and I keep getting an error message "Error contacting the Parsoid/RESTBase server (HTTP 404)" Not sure what's going on.Barrychoward (talk) 02:20, 9 March 2021 (UTC) NVM, I had to relog in and copy and paste my changes. Feel free to review when you have time. Thanks so much.Barrychoward (talk) 02:58, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

No Good Deed...?

Hi... Thank you sincerely for helping me get started a bit over a week ago. And since no good deed goes unpunished, I'm hoping I might ask for additional advice? You made a couple edits in my first article and that was very encouraging...so I've been doing simple stuff with growing confidence. (And some, not so confident.) Anyway, basic article is a work-in-progress in my "sandbox" and I've got more images to upload. And I have raw text for a sidebar "highlights of career" block (but don't know how to create?) There must be directions on how to build the sidebar? And second question: Is is bad form to upload a poor quality image as a place-holder for a higher-quality image that will replace it before "publication?" (Or should I just wait for the good pix?) Thank you again. (I will try not to abuse your prior kindness too often!) (Oh, the draft is in User:Richard Furwood/sandbox) Richard Furwood (talk) 18:45, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Actually - a third question: Is it safe to keep working in my "sandbox?" Sometimes when I'm looking for it, a "bot" says I "don't have a sandbox" and sometimes it says I "don't have a 'user page' either!" Pilot error (and ignorance) I know. Thanks Richard Furwood (talk) 19:57, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Hello Richard Furwood. My own method for sidebar here would be to find an decent article on a similar topic, like David Farragut, and copy the code used there, filling it with the relevant data. I think you may want Template:Infobox military person. Does that help?

Pix are tbh not that important (well, there's copyright etc), so whatever you feel best. The article does not have to be perfect, so a particular image should not stop you. I'd recommend shrinking the big images to a more traditional size.

I don't know why the bot says that you don't have a sandbox, but that page is as safe as anything on-WP. But you don't have a userpage, that's why your signature has a redlink. If you want one, click the redlink, write something and publish. Doing so indicates somewhat that you're not that much of a newbie.

You may be aware of this, but: When you're ready, you can either submit your draft for review by placing {{subst:submit}} at the top of it (then click the button in the template that appeared). OR you can WP:BOLDly WP:MOVE it to mainspace yourself. The first method is recommended for new editors, the second gets your article into mainspace quicker, but can of course be reverted if someone disagrees with it. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:22, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

All of that worked! Huzzah! (And thank you.) One (final?) question: In editing... I "bumped" the "Contents" box up to the top of the page...and now I can't find it in either "Visual" or "source" -- How can I move it back where it belongs? (Someone else, perhaps you, created it for me on day-one, and it was perfect, so no need to change -- except position.) Gracias! Richard Furwood (talk) 20:42, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Newbie Dumb Q2

In spite of your clear directions... I'm not doing something (anything?) right... Trying to submit my draft 1st article to the "review process"... I started the but... I didn't know what to do...next... and thought I might "break" my draft... And after it goes into "review" -- how can I watch, or even find it again? (See: "Newbie!" is right.) Richard Furwood (talk) 21:24, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

OH! I didn't get THAT box to pop up. Clearly pilot error. Richard Furwood (talk) 21:27, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Richard Furwood, you seem to have fixed the TOC problem above. About {{subst:submit}}. Copypaste it as it appears in this comment, double coathangers to double coathangers (at the top of your article). The nowiki bits disables it, they are for when you want the text, not the effect. Finding and watching your draft will not be a problem. You may have use for WP:WATCHLIST. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:49, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

And I see now that you (Richard) hilariously submitted this talkpage as an article. Dan arndt I don't see how you could possibly decline, clearly the encyclopedic value is immense. As the old saying goes, try to teach someone to fish and they'll sink your boat. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:58, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Couldn't exactly work out what was going with the AfC, seemed a bit strange to be on your talkpage but what the hell I've seen weirder things when editing WP. Have fun with your noobie. Dan arndt (talk) 09:05, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

And thanks for your assistance. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:13, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Huzzah! Moved the draft to someplace called "Draft:William J. McCluney" Now I guess I just............ (Thank you, sincerely.) Richard Furwood (talk) 16:16, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Richard Furwood Yeah, but you still haven't submitted it for review. Add the {{subst:submit}} thing to Draft:William J. McCluney. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:15, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

I did! But obviously not correctly... Will try again. Thanks. Richard Furwood (talk) 17:30, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Richard Furwood This link WP:SUBMIT should achieve the same goal is the other thing gives you problems. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:35, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

You did it! Now check the template where it says "Improving your odds of a speedy review". Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:38, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Will do. Tnx! Richard Furwood (talk) 17:39, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

I "tagged" Military History, Biography, Japan...and was looking for more...when the page changed gave me options about "draft" and other questions??? Should I do something...more? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard Furwood (talk • contribs) 18:08, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

You can move/change your "Main article" links a little, customary it's a template at the top of the section, you can see some eamples at United States Army. If you have weblinks to more of your refs, you could add those. WP:PAYWALLed is ok. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:54, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Jozo Zovko

Hello Gråbergs - I am still needing your help on Jozo Zovko's page. I am removing duplication and primary, non independent sources along with the words, if they contradict the words from an excellent reliable source. Also removing questionable sources and adding citation needed as necessary. Please help again. Here is the talk page. Slp1 is the editor who is kindly guiding us on the Our Lady of Medjugorje page. Red Rose 13 (talk) 22:00, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Hello. I don't intend to look into this at the moment. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:22, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Apologies

Regarding deletion of one of your messages on my talk page; sorry if it came off as rude. If you had email configured, I'd explain why, but I can't do so on-wiki. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 14:07, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Ohnoitsjamie, no problem, you were no ruder than I was. The whatever seems to have sufficient eyes on it anyway. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:54, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Crollalanza theory

Hello, I saw you added the Crollalanza link page to the page of John Florio. But the Crollalanza theory proposed by Santi Paladino cites Michelangelo Florio and not John Florio as author of Shakespeare's plays. I think the link could be added on the page of Michelangelo Florio, but not that of John Florio. Thank you for your help. 2.103.8.197 (talk) 00:52, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Per MOS:SEEALSO and Crollalanza theory of Shakespeare authorship it's a reasonable addition, the fairy tale is already associated. A reader who had heard of JF+SAQ could find it helpful. But it's not very important, I won't bother to revert it at this time. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:24, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Hello

Hello, Gråbergs Gråa Sång could you please provide me with some instructions on how to bring to the attention of the administrators the issue of personal attack? RegardsLegione-Romana (talk) 15:22, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Sure: WP:ANI, though it's quite possible an admin will chime in at the Teahouse. However, if you do try WP:ANI, check WP:BOOMERANG first, since your behaviour will be commented on as well. Give WP:BRD a chance. WP:DISPUTE has good guidance. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:33, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Pichenotte....questions...

Hello again.... I am working hard on the pichenotte entry...why are you removing links that I have taken great pains to find ? like Wayne Kelly and Eckardt Wettlaufer and Crokinole Clubs and Tournaments and please be careful about changing grammar ...saying 'many tournament' is not the same as 'many tournaments'...thank you

See WP:EL, don't link in article text. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 22:10, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Talk:Pichenotte#Why_is_Gråbergs_Gråa_Sång_removing_my_links_and_changing_my_grammar?. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 22:55, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Hello, How do I access edit summaries ? That would be very helpful..DVQuebec (talk) 03:43, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

DVQuebec Assuming you edit from a laptop or in "desktop" mode on a device, see the "View history" link at the top of the article. Here is a list off all edits by everybody, with their WP:ES (also links to some fun statistics like pageviews). If you click the "prev" link, you'll see a "diff" (WP:DIFF) of what was done in that particular edit. If you click the date-link, you'll see what the article looked like up to and including that edit (called "revision"). Hope this helps. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:14, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

And I note that even if you didn't know where to find the edit summaries, you wrote them anyway, so thanks for that. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:44, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Another thing. It has been noted more than once that learning to write stuff in the WP-manner takes time, trial and error. Looking at similar articles can help, but WP also has a lot of crap, so one has to be selective for it to do any good, and of course the access to good WP:RS matters enormously, no sources no content. There is a kind of quality mark, WP:Good articles. Articles that have that mark has been through a degree of quality control, and often they are quite good. If you want, see if you can find any similar articles here Wikipedia:Good_articles/Sports_and_recreation#Recreation, perhaps looking at those can give some inspiration. Wikipedia:WikiProject Board and table games can also be worth checking out. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:03, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

thank you, very helpful... DVQuebec (talk) 15:02, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

While I'm driving by: Gråbergs, I apologize if I came off as finger-pointy over at the article talk page. Re-reading, it came off harsher than I'd intended, like "you're a terrible BITEr" when I really just meant to suggest some extra caution and "cite salvage" when feasible.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  19:08, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks SMcCandlish, I appreciate it! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:13, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Need help with Transaltion

Hey, it looks like you know Turkish. So I would like some help in translation from Turkish-English. For the Ramo (TV series) page I need the English translations of the characters. list from Ana karakterler and Yardımcı karakterler

These are the link to the Main Character and Supporting Character sections on the Turkish wiki of Ramo and I want to translate it for the English wiki. I already created the sections in Ramo (TV series) and all you got to do is fill the translation.
I tried to use Google Transalate but the answers didn't look accurate. So it'd be pretty helpful if you did it. Rasalghul1711 (talk) 10:42, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't. Google translate is helpful to some extent, but afaict it doesn't do Turkish very well. You can try Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Turkey, and/or perhaps Talk:Diriliş: Ertuğrul. There's also WP:TRLA. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:53, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Rasalghul1711: Tahaaleem knows Turkish. You should ask him. Thanks. 37.111.130.151 (talk) 13:14, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Precious

Three years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:48, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Thank you very much! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:39, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

FAQ

AnachronistBishonen, I just created Talk:Adam's Bridge/FAQ, started a thread at Talk:Adam's_Bridge#Talk:Adam's_Bridge/FAQ. If you have any comments or edits, please go ahead. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:00, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

AnachronistBishonen not sure the ping worked. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:01, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

I am not sure why you pinged me, as I have never seen that article before. It looks like another one of those things that generates frequent complaints and edit requests, like the Muhammad talk page getting frequent requests concerning images, honorifics, and the word "founder".

My only comments about that FAQ entry are these:

• It looks strange to see it referring to an ongoing discussion.
• It also needs a more detailed explanation, specifically (according to one of the talk page comments), that WP:COMMONNAME applies globally, and while "Adam's Bridge" isn't the common name in India, it is how reliable sources worldwide refer to it.

Those are my thoughts. ~Anachronist (talk) 17:52, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Anachronist, somehow I missed this reply until now. I pinged you because I saw you involved in the Muhammad-FAQ discussions, so you were likely to have a view on FAQ:s. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:46, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Edit summary snafu

Hi,

After ten years on Wikipedia, tonight was the first night that I was scolded in an edit summary. You may be frustrated that I'm struggling a bit today - and you've been on the ball, which I have appreciated. I had to look up and was very confused about the right things to do for both the {{connected contributor}} and the edit warring situation. I have a brain injury and unrelated fogginess that makes things much harder than they used to be. When I get confused, I keep trying to double- and triple-check, but I sometimes miss things, like a cut and paste that wasn't completed. I used to be super sharp. Any way. I am a bit sad by that. I absolutely get, though, that it's not good to have an error with the wrong user name. Totally got that.–CaroleHenson (talk) 08:22, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

CaroleHenson Thanks, I understand, it's like e-mailing the wrong person, I've done that. Also I just had a good nights sleep. And I'm certainly not frustrated since you're doing all the hard work on this. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:33, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

And since the other Zeinab haven't edited since 2013, they're somewhat unlikely to take offense. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:39, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia, by Agatha Christie

Jenhawk777Gareth Griffith-JonesXoverBishonenCaroleHenson You may enjoy this one, I did: Lileks: Wikipedia wants me to do what? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:10, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

It's like Lileks was in the room. The haughty spoiled daughter | talk. 14:26, 3 May 2021 (UTC).

"To my other niece Mary-Beth, whom I've always considered the rudest little tart in my hemisphere, I leave..." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:35, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

An A for effort, but I ding him for leaving out the estranged older brother who is there to get a head start on the murdering. (Also—[Rollback (VANDAL)]—the factory was just over the city limits in Fairfield). Also also, we're taking a page out of the old Church of England playbook now, asking for bequests from the faithful? Why not just go full Catholic and start selling indulgences? "Two grand and time served for paid editing: it's a steal!" It'd be a nice way to diversify the revenue stream from just donations and our .com. --Xover (talk) 15:03, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

That was so fun! Thanks for sharing it!–CaroleHenson (talk) 15:22, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, but ... Agatha Christie? I'm missing the connection.
Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 15:37, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Murder mystery? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:07, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Come now dear ones, it is Wikipedia and Agatha Christie all the way! The best paragraph in the whole wonderful article gives it away: Arthur stands and swears that this will not stand, he'll take it to court! Ginny agrees! The next day, Arthur is found dead in the garden. The famous Wikipedia Murder is never solved because the detective started researching poisons, ended up clicking on a link about the Borgias and went down a rabbit hole of Italian political history for the rest of the afternoon. I of course copied it in order to quote it directly, first checking its source and verifying its accuracy with two additional sources, noting the level of controversy and disagreement amongst scholars on the topic. Indeed. The murder remains unsolved. I do, however, think I will begin an article on those who have been hit in the head with a rock - (or perhaps a crystal) - who deserved it. It seems the research could be endless. I am adoring you all! Ta ta for now! Jenhawk777 (talk) 04:36, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks to Gråbs and Jenny. All the best,
Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 09:50, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Xover Sometimes a murther, most foul, is just a murther, most foul. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:07, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

And sometimes there's a third man… Xover (talk) 20:31, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Wording

On Jimbo's talk, could you say "has passed away" or "is no longer with/among us" instead of "is dead"? It's a bit more sensitive and less in-your-face when talking about good people. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:08, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Changed. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 04:44, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Tack så mycket

Lóqlen (talk) 08:37, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Tack själv! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:38, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Hey one more question, sorry if I'm bothering you. Where do I go to edit a random article that needs editing? (Lóqlen (talk) 08:43, 19 May 2021 (UTC))

@Lóqlen No problem! Well, imagination is your limit, really, but check "Help out" at Wikipedia:Community portal. And there's a "Random article" link on every WP-page. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:01, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Ok, thank you for all your help (Lóqlen (talk) 10:06, 19 May 2021 (UTC))

Razinatorr

Regarding this editor, they just essentially confirmed here in a barnstar they gave to Limorina that they were an account of a blocked sockpuppeter, User:AliCharlie898. That's WP:BLOCKEVASION, right? IronManCap (talk) 19:21, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

@IronManCap, yep. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:24, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Just letting you know I have now opened a sock investigation at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/AliCharlie898 with the evidence. IronManCap (talk) 19:34, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Editor at the Teahouse

Our edits conflicted when responding to a request at the Teahouse - apologies for that. My concern is however about the editor who posed the question. They deleted the thread almost as soon as we had replied. Their story about a "school assignment" seems to be totally at odds with their editing history. They start here] with a comprehsnive expandion of an article about a Vietnamese film Director including the use of sophisticated reference formatting. All their edits are about this director and his films. and although I am prepared to AGF, this is looking very much like paid editing by a very experienced editor, either block evading or simply creating a burner user-name for this particular job. I would welcome your views on what you would deduce from this editing hisroy. Many thanks  Velella  ^{Velella Talk}   13:56, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

@Velella, absolutely no apologies needed for EC:ing, especially not at the Teahouse. I don't know if you saw my comment at User_talk:Kiwis&apples#Teahouse, per AGF it was an understandable newbie mistake, but they seem very competent for a new editor. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:40, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Replies on Help desk

Hi, Gråbergs Gråa Sång. I'm not sure how my Help desk reply regarding Indian English article versions, timed at 08:48 UTC, appeared above yours timed at 08:31. When I started my reply yours wasn't there, but evidently you started and completed yours before mine was finished. If you want to reverse their order, please go ahead. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.27.217 (talk) 09:02, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for reaching out. I've seen this happen before, and it doesn't bother me (these days). Good reply, btw. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:06, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Your talk page is now shorter than mine

I am officially embarrassed by that now - having given you such a bad time about how many hours it took me to scroll to the bottom of yours previously. If you weren't so danged friendly and helpful to so many people, you wouldn't have had that problem in the first place! You need to learn to be more curmudgeonly - sort of like me. Then no one would want to talk to you! That would solve everything for me, see, so that when I want to come here and talk to you, I can just skip right to the bottom. Oh wait. I can. Fine then, keep on being nice and helping newcomers survive the wiki-wilds out there. And enjoy this

I miss you! Jenhawk777 (talk) 04:43, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

You're always welcome to make my talkpage longer, dear Jenhawk777 (255 edits here according to xtools). After so many reasonable editors politely poking me in that direction, it turned out that archiving aint that bad. I feel plenty curmudgeonly at times, House MD is a favorite, but not on the level to be blocked, apparently.

I noticed you keep GA:ing stuff, good job. Have you considered putting little GA etc marks on your userpage, like User:David notMD? You should have a few by now.

I've been adding to Shakespeare and Star Trek, feel free to enjoy. It now includes the "Ohh, I know Hamlet!" quote. He's not lying. And I made a short article about a guy who does something called aquascaping. So I was skimming through an interview with a Norwegian (Xover's people) aquascaper, and ran into -Here, one is like a god? -Yep. The Old Testament kind, if one wants to be. Turn up the CO2 and put it in the sun, and everything croaks. I'll hear that in my head next time I see a fishtank. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:38, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Also, you two: Should an article about "Shakespeare's coat of arms" be called that, "Shakespeare family coat of arms", "John Shakespeare's coat of arms" or something else? Yes of course it was on Star Trek. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:47, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Good question. The coat of arms was ostensibly for John, but it was Will that pushed it through; and it was definitely granted because Will by that time was a "Gent." (no longer had to work for a living, in theory). I think maybe the deciding factor is WP:COMMONNAME: everybody will refer to it as "Shakespeare's coat of arms". ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Xover (talk) 07:05, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I stumbled on Not Without Mustard which I thought was pretty funny. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:19, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Hello Jenny! Why didn't you use the Jump to bottom of page ↓ banner that I posted so long ago?
Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 10:16, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

I did! I did! And it's so short now, it was hardly even a real jump! I have an archiver on my talk page but I don't think it works. Can I steal the jump to the bottom from you? I have never heard of Shakespeare having a coat of arms, but I have heard of them being designed for people who didn't previously have them. I believe the Catherine wheel qualifies. I love the story of John Cleese. Such a funny man! I love his humor. My first exposure to him was in "A Fish named Wanda". I've been a fan ever since. Love the anecdote - self-deprecating instead of mean - so like him. Gareth! Hi!! Jenhawk777 (talk) 22:22, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, Catherine wheel? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:50, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Gareth, since you afaict are the only Welsh person I know, I give you this anecdote:

A few years back John Cleese did a "Last chance to see me before I'm dead" show in my city, and I went to see it. At the end of it, he took written questions from the audience, and actually picked mine, "Is there any of the Pythons you dislike more than the others, and if so, who?" Kind man that he is, he had something to say about all of them, but the bit I remember went something like "Well, Terry Jones is Welsh. And the Welsh were put on this earth to perform simple tasks for the English. But for some reason, Terry Jones believes that he is my equal." To quote an SNL-sketch, if there is such a thing as loving racism, I think you found it. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:51, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

That's typical of Cleese. Well done for getting him to choose yours!
Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 19:36, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Mae'r Cymry ym mhobman!  Velella  ^{Velella Talk}   19:46, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Dyna Roeg i mi. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:17, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

 Velella  ^{Velella Talk}   21:00, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

@ Jenny I just noticed this. Now I realise that you were replying to me, rather than your setting up WP:ARCHIVE on your Talk.
Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 10:40, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

No problemo! Hope you an d yours are well. Jenhawk777 (talk) 01:09, 28 May 2021 (UTC)