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Emerging issues involving brand new Indian editors on articles about wars.[edit]

Hello @HistoryofIran, Recently, a second phase of War Articles has been initiated by our new Indian users. Could you please take a look at them, specifically including topics such as the Shunga-Greek War, Gupta conquests of Bengal, and Mauryan Khotan Colonization.

The most notable issue I've encountered, which is not a brand new article, is an ongoing edit war with an Indian user. It revolves around the conflict between the Iranic Scythians, also known as Sakas, and the Satavahanas, in which the Sakas/Scythians emerged victorious. However, the Indian user keeps reverting my edits repeatedly. The article in question is titled "Saka-Satavahana Wars." DeepstoneV (talk) 09:32, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. Sorry, but that's a lot of topics and issues. I might take a look, can't promise anything though. Worst case scenario, I would recommend using WP:ANI. HistoryofIran (talk) 14:08, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, examine the editing methods of User:Aryan330, User:Melechha, and Johanrojjashi. There is a commonality among them, and it's evident that Johanrojjashi is not a newcomer. I am limiting the comment as anything we say nowadays are getting distorted, even the old comments. Imperial ^[AFCND] 18:55, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you please show some diffs that demonstrate that? And no need to limit yourself, don't let them get to you - let them try to distort it, they're just shooting themselves in the foot, as everyone can see the diffs for themselves. Anyways, I have a pretty good smoking gun for the afromentioned meatpuppetry activities, so everything should be good soon, just need an admin to see it. HistoryofIran (talk) 19:31, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

1. Melechha created a wikitable in "Ahom-Mughal conflicts,"[1] and Jonharojjashi promptly modified it[2] .
2. Aryan and Melechha (Editor Pandit is his socked acc) engaged in edit warring for improving a wikitable in "Maratha–Portuguese War (1683–1684),[3]" with Jonharojjashi making the similar edits shortly after in favour of them [4] [5].
3. Similar occurrences were observed in "Luso–Maratha War (1729–1732)," where Melechha created a wikitable[6], and Jonharojjashi either restored or modified it[7]. Additionally, when Melechha moved the page to a different title[8], Jonharojjashi followed suit[9]. Notably, this marked Jonharojjashi's third edit on the article.
4. The pattern repeated in the "Dogra–Tibetan War," with Melechha creating a wikitable[10] and Jonharojjashi subsequently editing it. This marked as the fourth article Jonharojjashi edited.[11].
5. Daayush (a confirmed sock), Jonharojjashi, and an IP user collaborated on editing "Kanishka" for a common purpose.[12] [13]
6. Jonharojjashi and Msangharak (a sock of Melechha) collaborated on editing "Kanishka's war with Parthia." [14].
7. Indo12122 (a confirmed sock user) and Jonharojjashi engaged in reverting each other's edits on "Muslim conquests in the Indian subcontinent."
I noticed several other accounts during the revision checks, some of which were added in earlier SPI checks. But, I didn't include them as they are not significant leads. Imperial ^[AFCND] 04:50, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks ImperialAficionado! HistoryofIran (talk) 14:13, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Don't want this auto-archived just yet, commenting for the section to stay. --HistoryofIran (talk) 01:30, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ditto. The big report is going to take maybe even hours, but it will be worth. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:20, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pleased to hear that. Please don't hesitate to ask if you need any help. Best regards. Imperial ^[AFCND] 15:31, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Imperial, I appreciate it. I think I have more than enough evidence (but wouldn't say no to even more), just need to assemble it all together in a reader friendly way as much as possible. I'll see if I can make time for it in the upcoming days. HistoryofIran (talk) 19:45, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Really sorry, so much stuff happening right now, which ends up making me too exhausted to do these type of extensive reports. I assure you I will do this month, I've found even more similar patterns. HistoryofIran (talk) 18:43, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please take your time, as this task is undoubtedly enormous. I am also gathering many leads. Kindly leave a message when it's ready. Best regards. Imperial ^[AFCND] 21:09, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ImperialAficionado: Better late than never [15]. If you have more proof, it would be greatly appreciated if you could post it there. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:00, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The report is excellent. You could also consider including a comment about the large community on Instagram, in addition to Discord servers. This information was obtained from a comment by the User:Shakib ul hassan [16]. Even though WP:OUTING, this proves that the recruiting could never end as thousands of people are behind this. I'm currently on a break, but I'll do my best to recall some of the earlier evidence I had. Best regards. Imperial ^[AFCND] 03:49, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Talish[edit]

Hello, colleague. I half cleaned the article Talish (region) from the flood of low-quality sources or information without sources. I will continue to do this. But I would like to ask you to watch this little part - Talish_(region)#Middle_Ages. Could you suggest sources for the third and fourth sentences there? Everything else (starting with Revolt of 1629, I will look through it myself, since the sources there, if they are, are in Russian). With respect, colleague. Smpad (talk) 21:15, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, that's nice to hear. Sorry, but I can only think of the sources I gave you here [17]. They might have something valuable. HistoryofIran (talk) 23:01, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, colleague. How can Wikipedia give me access to this article - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/713656178?

With respect, Smpad (talk) 22:27, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Smpad. You can always request a source from Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request, but I found the pdf here [18]. HistoryofIran (talk) 23:40, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, colleague! With respect, Smpad (talk) 00:32, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Chuvash Page[edit]

برادر سلمون علیکم. در صفحه چوواش دروغ ها و اطلاعات بی اساس زیادی وجود دارد. پاناتورکس آن را اضافه کرد. آیا می توانید به بررسی و حذف دروغ ها کمک کنید؟

Chuvash people 2A02:FF0:3316:8F74:8DDF:2A42:58F:B5AF (talk) 15:28, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Central Asia[edit]

Can you review [19] (Scythian vs. Scytho-Siberian) and [20] (representing Ferdowsi and Shahnameh as historical facts)? @Kansas Bear, LouisAragon, and Wikaviani: You might be interested too. --Mann Mann (talk) 16:46, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I’ll see if I have time to check it later today. HistoryofIran (talk) 17:50, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I reverted the edit about Scytho-Siberian as well, since no sources were provided for it. The page is now protected. Cheers.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 21:56, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, it looks like the user was cherrypicking and engaging in WP:SYNTH. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:01, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely. What's more, the user is misinterpreting the source he himself cited, as Kansas Bear said at Talk:Central Asia.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 22:06, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I see. I didn't get to check the source before you reverted them, but I didn't have high expectations, since they were indeed mentioning Ferdowsi behind a citation that wasn't even about him. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:09, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, edit-warring to reinstate their edits while attacking Mann Mann like they did are additional evidences that this user is probably not here to build an encyclopedia.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 22:19, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Request[edit]

Hello, colleague. Can I ask your opinion for Talk:Forced assimilation in Azerbaijan#Merge proposal?

I created Forced assimilation in Azerbaijan article, so now I plan to reduce Talysh people#In the Soviet Union. With respect, Smpad (talk) 20:46, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Smpad. I'm currently leaning towards with what Buidhe said, but I also want to see what other users say first. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:07, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Сolleague, Aharon Erman broke the structure of the discussion. Is it possible to invite someone to lead the discussion as Felix QW made in Talk:Talyshstan_(region)#Merge_proposal. With respect, Smpad (talk) 22:22, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I don’t understand why there might be a question about coerciveness or voluntariness. The article describes the specific policies of the state (falsifying censuses, creating false official narratives, the state’s refusal to record certain groups of people as they want, etc.) Where is the voluntariness on the part of these peoples here? With respect, Smpad (talk) 22:27, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To be fair you both did it by keep replying to each other and kinda going a bit off-topic, thus leading to a wall of text and thus WP:TLDR. I don't think I've ever done it before (?), but WP:MERGE explains how. Also, "they" in English is used to as a non-gender substitute for "him/her". It's commonly used in the English Wikipedia.

Where is the voluntariness on the part of these peoples here?

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand. Then again, I don't know that much about the assimilation process of the Talysh in Azerbaijan. I only know as much as I added in Talysh people. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:29, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Also, "they" in English is used to as a non-gender substitute for "him/her"" - then I was still accused by the uzer of the thing I didn’t do.

Title of the article should come from its content. Goff and others do not describe cases of voluntary assimilation into Azerbaijani Turks.

Also, if assimilation is the entire policy of the state, which uses the practices described in the article, then it is by definition forced (and not voluntary).

"Assimilation of ethnic minorities in Azerbaijan" this is not an adequate title, since the pre-Turkic Muslim peoples were forcibly assimilated, while no such policy was carried out in relation to the Russians, Volga Tatars and many others. We already have Ethnic minorities in Azerbaijan article. With respect, Smpad (talk) 22:44, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But "Assimilation of ethnic minorities in Azerbaijan" doesn't necessarily mean that there wasn't any forced assimilation. It just means that there was assimilation, what kind of assimilation is then what the article goes into. HistoryofIran (talk) 02:33, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Then such an article should be called simply “Azerbaijanization” and it should describe known cases of voluntary assimilation to the same extent. Then there will be two articles: Azerbaijanization and Forced assimilation in Azerbaijan, the first describing a socio-cultural phenomenon, and the second describing the policies and practices of the Azerbaijani state in relation to its minorities (compare Marriage vs Forced marriage, Prostitution vs Forced prostitution, etc). I have no sources for the first article, but only for forced assimilation. With respect, Smpad (talk) 12:43, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Imo you should make that proposal in the talk page to see what others think. HistoryofIran (talk) 13:54, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar[edit]

		The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
		I was given this Barnstar by TheEagle107 but I decided you also deserve this barnstar for your outstanding efforts in defending vulnerable articles and combating against vandalism on Wikipedia. We appreciate you as a member of this community and this Barnstar is well deserved! Ayaltimo (talk) 07:12, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much Ayaltimo - my pleasure! HistoryofIran (talk) 12:57, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Ghazni (1148)[edit]

Hey HistoryofIran, I saw your edit on this article and wondered if you had any more information concerning this event? I posted some information on the article talk page, but 2 of the sources are generalized and non-specialized. I would appreciate your opinion on the matter. Thanks! --Kansas Bear (talk) 19:15, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Kansas Bear. This was the best I could find;

"A poem of Sayyid Hasan's refers to the events of 543-4/1148-9 when the Ghurid Saif ad-Din Suri temporarily occupied Ghazna, and records the return of both Bahram Shah and 'the sun of the kingdom Hasan-i Ahmad'." - pp. 105-106, The Later Ghaznavids: Splendour and Decay : The Dynasty in Afghanistan and Northern India, 1040-1186

"The real reason seems to have been that Sayyid Hasan had stayed in Ghazna during the Ghurid chief Saif ad-Din Suri's occupation of" the city, and may well have been ready to accommodate himself to the new regime there, which could have appeared as a permanency. When, however, Bahram Shah regained his throne, Sayyid Hasan deemed it prudent to depart in 544/1149-50 for Nishapur, and it was from there that he addressed to the sultan poems of apology and also the long ode celebrating Bahram Shah's ultimate victory over and killing of Suri." p. 108, The Later Ghaznavids: Splendour and Decay : The Dynasty in Afghanistan and Northern India, 1040-1186

"After quarrelling with his brothers, Quṭb al-Dīn fled to the court of Bahrām Shāh, to whom, according to Ibn al-Athīr, he was related by marriage; there he was poisoned. As the paramount Ghūrid, Sayf al-Dīn Sūrī marched on Ghazna in retaliation, occupied the city in Jumāda I 543/September-October 1148, and assumed the title Sulṭān, but Bahrām Shāh gathered an army in the Panjāb and retook his capital, capturing Sūrī in flight on 2 Muḥarram 544/12 May 1149 and executing him in humiliating fashion at Ghazna. Bahāʾ al-Dīn Sām had meanwhile assumed the throne of Fīrūzkūh, where he continued construction, but he died reportedly of smallpox (bi-l-judarī) at Kīdān, on the road to Ghazna to avenge his brothers’ deaths." - EI3 HistoryofIran (talk) 19:39, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. It appears there is no reference stating "battle". --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:33, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

True that. Seems like we're possibly dealing with an article that shouldn't even be an article to begin with. HistoryofIran (talk) 01:20, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah I'm beginning to think that way as well. On the article talk page there are two sources that imply there was a siege, but I don't feel that is enough to justify an article. --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:13, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your GA nomination of Orontes I[edit]

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Orontes I you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Relativity -- Relativity (talk) 19:24, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Possible additions to Nader Shah?[edit]

Hello @HistoryofIran, once again a great pleasure to be talking to you and hope you're doing well. I was recently looking to make some improvements about Nader Shah's religious policy and couldn't help but notice that a section about his crown (the Kolah I Naderi) cites Axworthy as a source to state that the 4 peak's of the crown symbolised the first 4 Caliphs. However on page 76 of "Sword of Persia", Axworthy says that some "believe that the four points of Nader's version had a religious meaning, but it seems more likely that...they signified the four corners of the territories he aimed to conquer", do you think this can be added as an alternative interpretation about the meaning behind the crown? Looking forward for your thoughts, thanks! Salman Cooper Mapping (talk) 08:20, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Salman, thank you and likewise. The info at Nader Shah might be wrongly attributed. I can check in a few days when I have my own pc again. HistoryofIran (talk) 13:07, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Concerning the Hephthalites[edit]

First and foremost, sorry for mistakenly talking in the wrong place, didn’t intend. Anyway, please take back the revision, because the source I add was just echoing the previous one. Also I found your criticism about the “naming” very simple. The ethnonym Bulgar was never an umbrella term like Scythian, or Tartar. Please consider this. BulgarChanyu (talk) 20:28, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

When I reverted you in my talk page and said "take it to the talk page" I was referring to the talk page of the article. And I was not necessarily referring to umbrella terms. Anyways, please be mindful of WP:SYNTH, and please show me where the source says that the Hephthalites are possibly of Bulgar stock, because that is what the section is talking about - a possible Turkic origin of the Hephthalites. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:33, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hushang[edit]

Hi @HistoryofIran, hope all is well with you. I recently made some changes to the page Hushang. I wonder if there are any suggestions you can make for improvement. I noticed that a lot of the articles on figures from Iranian mythology are very "Shahnameh-centric" and haven't been touched for years, so there's a lot of room for improvement there. Revolution Saga (talk) 20:51, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Revolution Saga, thank you and likewise. Yep, I noticed that as well. Unfortunately I can't think of any WP:RS right now, I'm not well versed in Iranian mythology and haven't dipped my feet in the topic for years. Perhaps @DeCausa: can be of help? Seeing as they have made the excellent Pishdadian dynasty. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:55, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the kind words - though I'm not sure I'll be much help! I think the bottom line is that the Shahnameh versions of these figures are easily accessible, clearly delineated and well written about. To an extent that's true also of the Tabari (and related) versions. But trying to track back to the Middle Persian texts and the Avesta and match like for like is quite difficult (at least I found it so). I found the Encyclopædia Iranica articles often quite disappointing in this regard. Often they weren't as clear as they could be about which version of a figure they were talking about at any particular point. To an extent, that's inherent because the references in the Avesta and, often, in the Pahlavi texts are quite obscure - although that may be my lack of understanding speaking. I would certainly say that they Pahlavi and Avestan descriptions are the weakest part of the Pishdadian dynasty article that would benefit from someone else taking a look at. Generally, the whole suite of articles on Persian mythology figures is in poor shape and I'd love to do something about it but it seems such a huge task! DeCausa (talk) 23:46, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Battle of Koyulhisar (1461) "[edit]

From what little I could find, it[Koyulhisar] appears to have been 3 sieges.

Uzun Hasan besieges the castle Koyulhisar and captures it. 1461 - Uzun Hasan's occupation of Koyulhisar. Translated from Turkish
Mehmed II sends Sarapdar Hamza Bey to retake the castle, but fails. As a matter of fact, after Uzun Hasan captured Koyulhisar near Sivas in 1461, Fatih appointed Sarapdar Hamza Bey to take the castle, and resorted to this tactic upon failure.In 1461, he commissioned Sarapdar Hamza Bey to capture this castle by suppressing Koyulhisar Bey, Hüseyin Bey, during a hunt, in order to make an expedition to the Greek Empire of Trebizond, but the castle could not be taken back. Translated from Turkish
Mehmed then besieges the castle using cannons and takes it. "1461 and the Isfandiyari fortresses of Koyulhisar and Karahisar fell that year after bombardment by Mehmed's cannon."

It may be better to move Battle of Koyulhisar (1461) to a draft under the name: Siege of Koyulhisar (1461). Thoughts? --Kansas Bear (talk) 00:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Kansas Bear. That sounds like a good alternative that I wouldn't mind either, I'll post it on the thread. HistoryofIran (talk) 12:21, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A little help please[edit]

Hi. I'm goting to complete the article of Zayn al-Din Taybadi and I can't find any English sources. As you seem to have access to the EI I need your help if you could send me some pdfs on this subject. He was one of the main mystics of the 14th century whose life and deeds has not been dealt with very much. Thanks in advance. Bbadree (talk) 14:08, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Bbadree. Zayn al-Din Taybadi appears in these two prominent works [21] [22]. Does he appear in EI too? If so, can you link it? I couldn't find it. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:50, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rabia was an Arab woman[edit]

Rabia was an Arab woman, I don't know why there is a claim that she was from a non-Arab descent. She was called bint Ka'b aka: the daughter of Ka'b, which is, كعب, an Arab name. She was called Zain Al-Arab, which indicates her Arab lineage. Ibnismail2222 (talk) 15:19, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please read the sourced Background section as well as WP:OR and WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. HistoryofIran (talk) 15:21, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One article[edit]

Hello bro, I wanted to say that if you can, take a look at Bogazicili edits in the turkic peoples article, he has done a lot of vandalism, even removing the maps that helps the lot of readers in the article!

Even if you have more time better check all recently works of this person Twg7s7h (talk) 15:23, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Twg7s7h. Sorry, but I need more context here, what is going on? And would it not be better to take it up with the user in the talk page of the article? HistoryofIran (talk) 15:29, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry no he would not even answer, i think you didn't understand my speech I mean check his edits on turkic peoples the edit or i mean his changes in that article his name is Bogazicili i can't do that because the article is lock

I know he done lot of vandalism Twg7s7h (talk) 18:54, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Al-Biruni[edit]

Hello, colleague. Why did Al-Biruni bacome Uzbek? With respect. Smpad (talk) 12:54, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for notifying me. Looks like someone is masquerading as an Iranian, likely a sock. HistoryofIran (talk) 13:03, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, this is probably the sock of the LTA Beyoglou. Got nothing better to do than larp once again it seems. HistoryofIran (talk) 17:55, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Help needed at Abu Lu'lu'a Firuz, re addition of Persian name and concerns of circular sourcing[edit]

Your input would be appreciated at Talk:Abu Lu'lu'a Firuz#Sources for the name Piruz Nahavandi. Summaries of the dispute and discussion thread may be found here. Thanks! ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 15:24, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Apaugasma. Weird, the article wasn't part of my watchlist anymore. I have a lot of balls in the air atm, I might join the discussion. HistoryofIran (talk) 15:53, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your GA nomination of Orontes I[edit]

The article Orontes I you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Orontes I and Talk:Orontes I/GA1 for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Relativity -- Relativity (talk) 00:03, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Scythian did not left any written sources[edit]

Herodotus write some of the scytian words and names but they are not translatable enough to any iranic language. Heredotus also writes that scythians and persian could not understand each other even they are only seperated few hundreds before according to our hypothesis. Their gods name completly different than other indu-european gods. For example even indian gods names have similarities with slavic and hellenic god. But scythian gods are not. Kaan C3Iik (talk) 08:33, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]