User talk:Ihcoyc/The presumption of non-notability for Internet related, computing, and services businesses

"The prose that comes from minds that have been malnourished on management fad paperbacks tends to be a morass of euphemisms, inappropriate abstractions, deliberate ambiguities, depersonalizing constructions, weasel words and glittering generalities designed as a sort of verbal sleight of hand."

You forgot WP:Peacock terms! ;) Nice essay, I enjoyed reading it. -- œ^™ 09:05, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

I've just discovered this essay, and it's instantly become one of my favourites on Wikipedia. This ought to be required reading for anyone who starts an article on a corporation... Robofish (talk) 23:18, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

I heartily concur!

All the "social media marketing geniuses" are threatening my deeply-held inclusionist principles. —Tom Morris (talk) 17:29, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Clear Books

You raise some interesting points in your article and you have a very strong view which I do not expect to change, but let me ask an opening question - How does Wikipedia, as an Internet related replacement for a physical encyclopedia i.e. Encarta, fit with the premise of the article?

For example, Clear Books is an Internet replacement for desktop accounting software. Every business in the world has to maintain their accounts and submit accounts, returns and taxes to their respective local authorities. The whole business world does not function without accounting software. There is a growing shift from desktop to online accounting software and in the UK, Clear Books is one of the leading online accounting software systems as supported by .Net Magazine, coverage in leading publications such as Telegraph and PC Advisor and the review in a huge bookkeeping organisation - ICB.

Online accounting software is having a huge impact on history. Think of a small business owner (who makes up the majority of businesses by number in any econonmy) who at the moment has to head into the office on a Sunday to raise an urgent invoice (waste of time, the environmental impact of commuting, the social impact of being away from the family etc)... or with online accounting software they can log in from home in 1 minute using the Internet to quickly fire off the invoice.

An improvement in how the business world works?

I would really appreciate your thoughts. Cheers --TimFouracre (talk) 22:07, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Remember that this is just a "presumption" or to rephrase it "assumption". That is, he "assumes" that a B2B product or business is not notable unless proven otherwise. AFDs on B2Bs are sometimes closed as "keep" if someone produces supersources. --Ron Ritzman (talk) 03:14, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

For me, though this essay is overlong already, it boils down to one significant fact. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a business directory. Every business in the world has to maintain their accounts and submit accounts, returns and taxes to their respective local authorities. The whole business world does not function without accounting software. "Every person has to eat. The human race cannot function without grocery stores, eateries, and food markets." But something more is required to turn your local grocer, pub, or market into an encyclopedia article. This essay, like the concept of notability on Wikipedia generally, is an attempt to aim towards a slightly clearer definition of what that "something more" entails for a specific group of subjects.

Businesses are problematic for other reasons. Many seem to hire professionals whose goals include getting them noticed, and noticed favorably. I believe this skews the results, and this is why I have a rebuttable presumption against notability for business and management subjects. I insist on the kind of achievements that get people and institutions remembered in encyclopedias, rather than simply counting press mentions, which notability debates sometimes tend to turn into. Again, I wrote this essay mostly because I didn't want to have to explain where I was coming from over and over in many deletion discussions. - Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 03:24, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Consulting

Enjoyed your essay. Congratulations, it's hard to be funny and curmudgeonly at the same time! I would suggest, as a corollary to your rules, that any business that has the word "consulting" in its title is unlikely to be notable. --MelanieN (talk) 15:24, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

Dear Ihcoyc:

Splendid essay: thank you very much for writing it.

I wonder if you might be willing to please move it from userspace to project space?

Kind regards, —Unforgettableid (talk) 20:43, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

I've considered that before, but decided against; if only because I want to keep the personal reflections included, and the style. - Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 21:53, 4 September 2013 (UTC)