User talk:Jameboy/Archive 7

This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Scott Carson

Hello, Jameboy, thanks for the message. I like the idea of a table and I agree that there is little point in having the goals column. I think the table would also be better without the two seasons at Liverpool when he was on loan elsewhere. I did wonder whether the table would be better ordered by season and then by club. What do you think?

I suspect that Carson's family lived at Cleator Moor but he was actually born in the maternity ward of the hospital at Whitehaven 3.5 miles away. I would be inclined not to include a footnote unless it becomes a big issue. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 23:35, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I will be interested to see how it gets on. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 23:08, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, it looks good to me. I just reworded a sentence about Carson joining Liverpool as it seemed to me on reading it again to suggest that Carson received the transfer fee of £750,000. What do you think? --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 20:50, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Re: wikilinking birth and death dates in bios

Thanks for the heads up, mate. I've made my opinion known on the subject now. – Pee Jay 21:02, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

George Santos

Cheers for that as I was struggling to find a proper link to that article as I saw it on fleetwoodtownfc.co.uk. ♦Tangerines♦·Talk 21:27, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Perry

Chris Perry (footballer)

first appears in Revision as of 2008-04-26T10:51:03 [1] (edit) (undo) by User:Chanheigeorge, i.e., I had nothing to do with that one.

would still be valid. Please clarify Peter Horn 00:27, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

The problem is within the template!! See my note at Talk:Chris Perry (disambiguation)#Elimination Peter Horn 14:26, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

I believe what I meant is how would one get rid of the (disambiguation) so that it would read "For other persons named Chris Perry, see Chris Perry" or something to that effect. Peter Horn 17:50, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Psalm 23 / The Lord's My Shepherd

Hi Jameboy - thanks for your comment on my Talk page - I have added a response there. (Is this the right way to do it? No one's ever spoken to me before! Haydn01 (talk) 11:45, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Wallwork

Yeah, I just noticed the Polish link. I've seen a few others from my watchlist recently. I've no idea what it says, but expect it's probably simply a translation of our work to some extent, and not really sure how to go about getting a Polish-GA. But I'll let you go for it. Peanut4 (talk) 18:56, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Good idea. It does simply look like a word-for-word translation so I expect it should be easy to get GA. Peanut4 (talk) 19:13, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Dickie Baugh, Jr

Hi, I've started a page for this player - Dickie Baugh, Jr - who also played for Albion, I don't have much detail on him so I'm sure you can add to this Wolvesweb (talk) 13:06, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

The correct name is almost unanswerable sadly. Sources I have use both - even within the same article! - ie "Dicky Baugh was a redoubtable full-back...only six players have appeared in more FA Cup games than Dickie". Given its essentially a nickname I think the matter is purely down to the whims of whoever writes any given piece, especially with the player's era being so remote. I'm open to either spelling - though redirect page should probably be made for the second naming option. Again, I'm open to the dot after jnr, it's probably wise in retrospect.

In terms of naming him and his father, obviously Wolves sources tend to just name his father as "Dicky/Dickie Baugh" and only apply the junior tag to his son, as the elder was the most famous player in Wolves terms Wolvesweb (talk) 11:52, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

WBA's League Results Graph

Hi, I've updated the graph you made of WBA's league performance - let me know if you'd like anything changed in my version.--Payo (talk) 18:22, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi Jameboy, I am happy to make the changes you want to the graph - or send you the data so you can do it - but I have a lot of experience with this sort of information design and I don't think the graph will be improved by adding numbers to the x-axis or spreading out the year labels on the y-axis. I tried lots of different variations before settling on the one I am using at the moment. If you want I can explain in more detail. You might find the Sparkline article interesting. --Payo (talk) 22:58, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi Jameboy, the charts I am making show trends over a long periods of time, my aim is to give users an over-view of the club's long-term performance, not produce a tool that users can use to extract data. I have focused on making it as easy as possible to see how a club's fortunes have changed and I hope that in thumbnail view they act a bit like "sparklines" as well as allowing users who want a closer look to see information presented in a clear and easy to understand format when they expand the thumbnail to full size.

Y-axis markers/lables: clearly the charts are not optimised to allow users to establish an exact league position at a particular year. I tried adding "overall position" numbers as well as "league position" numbers to the y-axis but the league "tiers" actually give users much more meaningful context than a set of unfamiliar "overall position" numbers (e.g: "Bolton Wanderers came 48th in 1991" doesn't mean much even to the most passionate football fan). The other problem with using overall position numbers is that they can have different significance at different times because the number of teams in the league gets changed from time to time (as indicated so by the bumps and notches in the tier lines). I experimented with adding promotion and relegation "zones" to each tier line but it got a bit messy and in most cases the chart clearly shows the result of a club getting close to the bottom (or the top) of any particular tier.

X-axis markers/labels: I think these are more tricky to get right than the y-axis; and I am not sure I have the optimal design yet. In the same way as the tiers reduce the need for numbers on the y-axis, showing the world wars and the "end of the line" being clearly noted as 2008 helps to give historical/temporal context, so having clearly ledgable year labels isn't vitally important. I tested several different y-axis labels, including labels for every ten as well as every five years. The problem with this was that these years then get given a weight that doesn't exist in reality and I found users started to look for some deeper significance in these years which wasn't there. I also tried changing the size, format and orientation of the year labels but found that having every other year labeled and every year "ticked" worked best. I am not against changing the labels on the y-axis but I also discovered that in the thumbnail view having a lot of years labeled created a horizontal "base line" while the x-axis line and tier labels disappear. I also looked at the points where the "performance line" crosses from one tier to another. These moments are more significant than years and I experimented with annotating the x-axis with these "key moments" (rather I did with the graph of Stoke City managers graph) but it got very messy, created a lot if extra work, and didn't really add very much to the "big picture". There is room on the graph for notes (see: Manchester United and Stoke City) but it is difficult to identify which "key events" (e.g: FA Cup wins, new ownership, disasters) should be annotated without knowing the club history in more depth than I have.

So, I hope this explains why the graphs look the way they do. If you want to experiment yourself or have more suggestions on how to improve them please let me know I'd be happy to adapt my graphs or send you the spreadsheets and charts and help you get started with making your own versions.--Payo (talk) 18:32, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Fixing dates

Hi,

I saw your comment about dates at Tony's page. Did you know that you can it yourself with just one click? That way you could fix any article in your watchlist or elsewhere. If you want to do it, just add

importScript('User:Lightmouse/monobook.js/script.js');

to the bottom of User:Jameboy/monobook.js and save it. Then follow the instructions on that page to clear your cache (i.e. press Ctrl-Shift-R in Firefox). Then put a page in edit mode and look at the 'toolbox' at the left of the page under 'What links here'. You will see various blue text commands such as 'Delink dates to dmy'. If you need any help, just ask. Regards. Lightmouse (talk) 14:26, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

I see you copied the script into your monobook. Have you tried using the blue 'Delink dates to dmy' command at the bottom left of your screen in the 'toolbox' below 'What links here'? Lightmouse (talk) 09:19, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Editors

Sure, you can list it there. Quite frankly, there isn't a debate here; on Wikipedia we list English instead of British because it is more clear as to where they are from. The IP is applying WP:IAR selectively; why only Editors and not thousands of other England articles? Besides IAR doesn't overrule consensus (which is to write "English", not "British"). You can see Featured Articles like Radiohead for example. indopug (talk) 15:42, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Horse

I've added a picture, albeit a tiny crop from a distant view of many players acknowledging the crowd, and am working on the chronology of his early years, which your Matthews seems to have wrong. Horse was only at Halifax a few months the first time, not a whole season, and then went to Guiseley A.F.C. for at least a full season (scored 36 goals for them) before joining Witton Albion, and then to Halifax the second time in Oct 96. Will sort out some sources and try and add some words to early years and to Blues section, probably tomorrow as I'm out this evening. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 15:01, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Just to let you know, he definitely played for Guiseley at some point either side of his first spell at Halifax. Peanut4 (talk) 00:20, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

I've just found this interview with him. I don't think that site should have any problems passing WP:RS. Given it's a straight man-to-man interview I wouldn't fully trust the exact stats, though they do agree with Struway's 36 goals. Peanut4 (talk) 00:35, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

In fact that interview should give a few other facts about his personal life and various parts of his career. Peanut4 (talk) 00:37, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

A couple more interviews that should help you here and here. I'm not entirely sure to be honest, whether he had one or two spells at Halifax. I'll try look further into it. Peanut4 (talk) 00:41, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

According to soccerbase, those first stats of 10 games and 7 goals is exactly the same as his brief Football League stats in 98-99 for Halifax, before his move to Fulham. All the sources I can find, including Halifax fans' sites, suggest he started with Athersley then was at Scarboro, part-time with Guiseley and Witton, before moving to Halifax. Peanut4 (talk) 00:50, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

I've had a go at the infobox. Halifax apps are from here and years from here (in the Ones that got away section), both fansites but I see no reason for them to be wrong. Guiseley/Witton could well break at 1995 rather than 96, but can't find any confirmation; he was signed by Ray Ranson who took over at Witton in June 95 so it can't be earlier than that. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 08:49, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

As to his early clubs, can we pretend we've never seen this? Horsfield admits he's a big admirer of Wolves boss McCarthy, not least as the two both played for the same non-league club in their formative days in Barnsley. "It was Worsborough Bridge, a team playing non-league a couple of divisions below the Conference," ..... As confirmed by Worsbrough Bridge Athletic F.C. website. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 17:00, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Did you know... that WP:MOSNUM#Numbers as figures or words says "Comparable quantities should be all spelled out or all figures: we may write either 5 cats and 32 dogs or five cats and thirty-two dogs, not five cats and 32 dogs." So "produced 15 goals from 26 starts and 2 substitute appearances" actually did comply with the MoS. (Ah, the good old days, when all I did was write little articles about Blues players of the past and revert 12-year-olds using their IT lessons to add rude words to Wikipedia, and didn't know there were such things as style or notability or date formats. /rant over...) Horsfield's article was high on my list of things to do anyway, so I already had some source material sorted out for the earlier stuff. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:03, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

What it means is, if you've got a string of similar things, you use the same format for all of them, so "293 apples, 3 pears and 2 plums" (all fruit), or "26 starts and 2 sub apps" (each a sort of appearance), but if the things are different, you use whatever MOSNUM would normally prescribe, so "three goals in 29 appearances" would have been right because goals and apps are different. Clear as mud, I say...

As to style of play, it was Keegan who described him as an old-fashioned centre forward, which can go in somewhere when I find the quote again. Though I do like this comparison with van Basten. How about an Honours section? cheers, Struway2 (talk) 13:43, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

I asked Mattythewhite if he could look Horsfield up on Playerhistory, which he has very kindly done. The bits of his early career for which they have full figures coincide with what we already have, but the bit in the middle is just as vague and incomplete as what we already have. Pity really... cheers, Struway2 (talk) 15:48, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Have him peer-reviewed, by all means. The various parts of his career are all covered pretty evenly, and I've got nothing particular to add. Looks good for GA to me (but what do I know...) cheers, Struway2 (talk) 22:46, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Farsley Celtic Results/Fixtures

I understand what you are saying about the fixtures/results sections but the club is struggling financially and it's a good way to publicise the home fixtures. If you can think of a better way of helping the club via wikipedia, please could you let me know. Leedsrhinos325 21:50 13th Sept

Joe Wilson

There appear to have been no less than eight Joe Wilsons who have played in the Football League, but there doesn't appear to be one who is streets ahead of the others in terms of notability, so if more than one ends up on WP they'd probably all need to be dab'd by DOB. The DOB for the Joe Wilson who played for the Gills and Walsall appears to be unknown, so heaven knows what I'd call his article is I ever get round to creating it..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 06:57, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

pcupdate

How do you update the pcupdate parameter? —Preceding unsigned comment added by RednessInside (talk • contribs) 18:14, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

RE: Davies fee

Sounds good, seems official enough to me. I would put it in a footnote saying: "Aston Villa have not officially disclosed the fee, but the West Brom website states it as 8.5 million.[1] The WBA chairman's statement implies the sale has add-on clauses.[2] " It is still undisclosed bu Villa; it is not officially official unless both clubs release it, and declare the add-on clauses. Regards. Woody (talk) 10:09, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Joe Wilson (footballer born 1861)

On 24 October, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Joe Wilson (footballer born 1861), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Congrats on your DYK, Elucidate ^{(parlez à moi)} Ici pour humor 21:11, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Sorry. Looks like the credits were haded out twice. All sorted now. Elucidate ^{(parlez à moi)} Ici pour humor 09:49, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

dts template

I don't know if you have it on your watchlist, but I have added a comment at: Template_talk:Dts#Compatibility_with_WP:DATE. Regards Lightmouse (talk) 13:34, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Mixed Race

I apologise if I have misscategorised these people, as I just took people from the List of black Britons page which you may wish to look at too. Stevvvv4444 (talk) 13:26, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Scott Carson GAN

I have replied at Talk:Scott Carson/GA1. Best wishes, GaryColemanFan (talk) 15:57, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1923 FA Cup Final

I have replied..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:47, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

No worries :-) BTW I caught my 4-year-old son jumping on the bed last night shouting "Boing boing" over and over again, so I think he might grow up to be one of your lot :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 14:26, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Cheers for the comments, I've actioned them all. As we live about ten minutes away from The Hawthorns, some would argue that he should support the Baggies, but thus far he's displayed no interest whatsoever in the beautiful game. Although to my eternal shame he did once wee up the clubhouse wall at Pilkington XXX's ground :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:15, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Goalscoring goalkeepers

I think its because it is something everyone can add to regardless of nationality or who they support. Yet at the same time it is a very specific topic; its a lot harder to make a quick addition to a general article like goalkeeper. If the list gets too big, it can just be split by continent, or by country if that isn't enough. Oldelpaso (talk) 21:14, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and I just threw the incomplete tag on there as it seemed relevant and I happened to know about it, there's almost certainly a better alternative available. Oldelpaso (talk) 21:16, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Dick Betterley

Hi, I've created a page for this footballer who also played for Albion. I have no information for his time with you at all so anything you can add is a bonus, cheers Wolvesweb (talk) 13:16, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Ah.. bugger, his name is indeed Betteley, I've moved the article now and corrected it all to reflect this Wolvesweb (talk) 22:46, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

My edits

This gets very annoying as many people, including myself, aggree with my edits and see them as NOT my point of view, as you keep putting, but the views of the nation. I therefore conclude that my edits should stand as they are much better than the originals.

              Kind regards

                        'The Editor'  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.2.177.52 (talk) 22:54, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Horse again

If we manage to stop getting in each other's way long enough, should we nominate this thing for GA once TRM's points are addressed? cheers, Struway2 (talk) 16:34, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Will do... cheers, Struway2 (talk) 16:44, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

have done. Should I have closed the peer review? you do when an article goes from PR to FAC/FLC, but I don't know if it's the same for GA. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 16:54, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Leave it open, then, and close it if and when a GA reviewer picks it up, cheers, Struway2 (talk) 17:25, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Curtis Davies

Curtis Davies Sierra Leonean father is a Creole (Krio) from Sierra Leone.

--Wikiaddict6989 (talk) 19:31, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

I had found a source about the ethnic origins of Davies' paternal Family. Generally it is common knowledge in Sierra Leone that the Davieses are either Krio or in some small instances Sherbro.

I will try and locate the source-I believe it was interview in which Davies spoke of his half brother as well.

--Wikiaddict6989 (talk) 19:41, 22 November 2008 (UTC)