User talk:La Mariposa Apache

Welcome!

Hello, La Mariposa Apache, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions, especially what you did for Micah True. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! ~Adjwilley (talk) 14:20, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi, I noticed your edits to Micah True, and it appears that you may have actually known him. I was wondering if you would be able to find out his birth date somehow. ~Adjwilley (talk) 14:22, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Just a note: If you intend to continue editing the Micah True article, I'd recommend that you first read Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. Nobody's saying you can't edit, but you should be particularly careful when editing articles about people you know, otherwise you could end up getting blocked from editing Wikipedia altogether. ~Adjwilley (talk) 21:01, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Micah True

The following was copied from User talk:Adjwilley I am going to deal with the situation here.

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Good morning, Adjwilley,

I have noticed that my name is being deleted, on a daily basis, as a surviving member of Micah True's family. Our three-year relationship can be verified by Micah's surviving siblings,as well as several journalists and friends of Micah. I was with New Mexico's Search and Rescue Team, as we recovered his body. On behalf of Micah's family, I attended his Memorial in Boulder, CO. Would another source delete my name from his page? Can anyone in the public, modify this page?

I am grieving immensley for his loss. Micah was an important part of my family's life. It's surprising to see these changes. If there's nothing you can do, I understand.

Thanks for you assistance.

Best Regards, La Mariposa Apache (La Mariposa Apache (talk) 16:06, 2 June 2012 (UTC)).

Adjwilley and La Mariposa Apache, would you like me to follow up on this, verify the information, and get the page fixed? --Guy Macon (talk) 16:14, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

It is true that Hypesmasher was repeatedly purging the name of True's girlfriend from the article, but I was trying my best not to get involved in that fight. During the 36-hour period you cite above, Hypesmasher removed the name at least 5 times ([1], [2], [3], [4], [5]). I never reverted him on that, though others did. I wasn't crazy about Mariposa's edits (particularly the controversial capitalization of the word "Partner") but numerous sources mention True's girlfriend by name, and I disagree with Hypesmasher that it should be completely removed from the article. That said, I'd rather not get involved in this particular battle, other than perhaps suggesting specific wordings on the talk page. ~Adjwilley (talk) 16:41, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

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Hi! I am a volunteer mediator at Wikipedia's Dispute Resolution Noticeboard. I am looking into your issue at Adjwilley's request. If you have any objection, just let me know and we can try to find someone else to help you. I am pretty sure we are going to be able to make the changes you suggest and make them stick, but we have to do a few things first, like verifying that you aren't some random person who is just pretending to know Micah True. Sometimes someone tries to pull a fast one on Wikipedia. It may take a few days (I have other commitments) but I promise you that we will get it all sorted out.

I am going to walk you through this, but you are also going to have to do a bit of work, mostly reading and understanding Wikipedia's policies. Are you willing to do that? If so, start by clicking on WP:BLP and WP:V. Take your time -- there is a lot there -- and feel free to ask questions if you don't understand something. --Guy Macon (talk) 17:12, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Here's a source that mentions Walton prominently: Bearak, Barry (May 20, 2012), Caballo Blanco’s Last Run: The Micah True Story, The New York Times ~Adjwilley (talk) 17:23, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Many of True's friends are individually and prominently mentioned in that article. Why is Walton considered special for inclusion purposes?

Guy Macon wrote: "If you have any objection, just let me know and we can try to find someone else to help you."

I have an objection to you mediating this, as we have recently both been involved in a dispute on another article, and you don't come across here as being impartial. I also don't believe it needs mediating at all. If Mariposa Apache believes she is "a surviving member of Micah True's family", then she should present legal evidence to that effect. Examples of such evidence would a marriage certificate, a civil partnership document, etc. Just saying it isn't enough. I'd also accept testimony from witnesses that she and True lived together continuously and long enough, in the same home, in order for their relationship to have been accepted by society as a common law marriage.--Hypesmasher (talk) 23:37, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Although Walton is named (as True's girlfriend) in some feature articles in newspapers, all of these articles were written and published after True's death. What we really need is a published source that quotes True with respect to their relationship. In any event, no such casual relationship would merit the inclusion of a girlfriend to the degree that Walton appears to desire. The article is primarily about True's notability with respect to his inclusion in Born To Run. We know he wasn't notable prior to that (or, if we're being honest, prior to his death, his book inclusion notwithstanding). It appears that True didn't meet Walton until after Born To Run was published and, therefore, their relationship is entirely irrelevant to the subject at hand.--Hypesmasher (talk) 23:37, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

An argument I would present here against Walton attempting to include herself in this article is based in the third clause of Wiki's Self-promotion section WP:SELFPROMOTE, which may be found on Wiki's Confluict of Interest page WP:CONFLICT. It says:

Conflict of interest often presents itself in the form of self-promotion, including advertising links, personal website links, personal or semi-personal photos, or other material that appears to promote the private or commercial interests of the editor, or their associates.

Examples of these types of material include:

3.Biographical material that does not significantly add to the clarity or quality of the article. (my emphasis)--Hypesmasher (talk) 23:58, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

It is up to La Mariposa Apache to decide whether I should help (not mediate) with her issues. You have no say in the matter. I am well aware of Wikipedia's policies on conflicts of interest and I assure you that policy will be followed to the letter. --Guy Macon (talk) 00:06, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Whatever. Your input here is now largely redundant, however.--Hypesmasher (talk) 01:48, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Micah True Reference

(Moved here from my talk page. I really prefer to discuss this in one place rather than scattering the discussion over several pages.) -GM

Thank you for explaining your reasonings for not including me as a survivor of Micah True. I am personally satisfied that the entire Hickman family has included me as Micah's Partner. Yes, there was no civil contract. He equally resided in both Boulder, CO. and Phoenix, AZ. In that respect, I sincerely appreciate the work your group does to be accurate in representing the legal facts.

Can you please include his second web-site: www.caballoblanco.org? This Non-Profit,Foundation continues to raise funds for the indegenous Tarahumara Indians of the Copper Canyons, in Chihuahua, Mexico.

Thank you for your thoughtful consideration.

Best Regards, La Mariposa Apache (La Mariposa Apache (talk) 00:36, 3 June 2012 (UTC)).

I think you have me confused with someone else. I am the one who has taken no position on whether Wikipedia should include you as a survivor of Micah True. My goal is to help you with this, not to make a snap judgement without getting all the facts.

Basically there are two legitimate reasons that could cause Wikipedia to not list you as a survivor of Micah True. First, if we find out that you are a total fraud and are just making all of this up. (I really doubt that, but we have to check.) The second reason would be if we found out that you were just a minor acquaintance. For example, someone who dated him for a month ten years ago would be an example of someone we would not make mention of. Again I don't think you are trying to manufacture a relationship like that, but we have to check.

I am aware that there is another editor here on Wikipedia who goes by the name of Hypesmasher who has made up his mind that you should not be mentioned. I am going to address his objections in due time. He has also decided that I should not be helping you. These are not his decisions to make. You do not have to respond to him. You can just delete his words in they are here on your talk page (don't do this anywhere else - it is only allowed on the page with your name on it.)

Be patient. I promise you that we will work this out. Also, I will get back to you on the question of caballoblanco.org --Guy Macon (talk) 06:47, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Images of True

Hi Mariposa, I was wondering if you have any photos of Micah that you would like to upload to Wikipedia. So far, we only have the one in the article, as far as I know, and it would be nice to have others, especially photos of the races. Wikipedia has very strict policies on copyrights, so the photos would have to be pictures that you took yourself, and by uploading them you would have to basically release the pictures into the public domain (meaning you would no longer own the copyright to them). Please let me know if you would be willing to do this.

Also, feel free to respond here on your talk page. I like to keep conversations all in one place, and I've placed your talk page on my Watchlist so I will immediately see your reply. ~Adjwilley (talk) 00:55, 3 June 2012 (UTC)