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User talk:Louis P. Boog/sandbox/Jinn sandbox 4-20-2024

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Ready for RfC?[edit]

@Louis P. Boog discussions at WP:RSN and WP:NORN notice boards are done. After taking those into account whether you have updated your intended highlighted changes in this sandbox and whether those are ready for taking to RfC? If so form and discuss neutral questions for the same. Bookku (talk) 10:17, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ Bookku . Do you see anything that I might logically add to this sandbox that I might have missed? Otherwise I'm ready. --Louis P. Boog (talk) 22:12, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Louis P. Boog
  • 1) Please help yourself in updating Publisher and Author brief as I did in First subsection below.
  • 2) As per feed back at WP:RSN (archive link) use Intercultural Press as publisher name (they being first publisher and RS instead of 'Hachette Livre' both at your sand box and also below RfC preparation.
  • 3) Check for accuracy of following thoroughly and update as necessary.
  • 4) Search and update any more Academic sources, if possible once again.
  • 5) @TheEagle107 do you have any more academic ref or additional text additions suggestions? or following is enough for you? Bookku (talk) 11:28, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Louis P. Boog What I request you, is to fill in the blanks Publisher: and Author: for Ref2: and Ref3: ; below at User Proposed additions of text 2 regarding references for ".. preachers Abul A'la Maududi, and Fethullah Gülen .." Thanks Bookku (talk) 07:24, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@talk Ref2: and Ref3? Do not see. --Louis P. Boog (talk) 21:54, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Louis P. Boog
Proposed additions of text 2 → (First collapse is present sentence) → See second collapse is (Ref-list and Author brief for Proposed additions of text 2) → Ref1 Tobias Nünlist, is for Fakhr al-Din al-Razi → Ref2 and Ref 3 for Abul A'la Maududi, and Fethullah Gülen publisher and author details are kept empty, You know it better how to mention and which reference for Abul A'la Maududi, and Fethullah Gülen.
@talk I sorry I am still unclear. Do you want me to delete the author and publisher details? I don't see anything wrong with them as they are. --15:10, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No no don't delete. As of now following format has not mentioned any supportive references for 'Abul A'la Maududi, and Fethullah Gülen'.
WP:NORN link is mentioned but it's too long to read for first time visiting RfC participating users. Mention of supportive refs or books for 'Abul A'la Maududi, and Fethullah Gülen' will be helpful, I suppose. Bookku (talk) 16:16, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Let me know if you are not able to see collapse templates. Bookku (talk) 01:53, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose you would have taken note at Talk:Jinn#Next step fyi: Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment#Pl. suggest format for RfC, in case you missed the link Bookku (talk) 16:05, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Primary preparation of RfC question[edit]

Proposed additions of text 1[edit]

  • In section "Islam":

Jinn have been called "an integral part" of the Muslim tradition[1] or faith,[2] "completely accepted" in official Islam;[3] prominently featured in folklore, but also taken "quite seriously" by both medieval and modern Muslim scholars,[4] who "worked out" the consequences implied by their existence -- legal status, the possible relations between them and mankind, especially in questions of marriage and property.[3]

Ref-list and Author brief for Proposed additions of text 1
Reflist for Proposed additions of text 1

References

  1. ^ Mark A. Caudill (2006). Twilight in the Kingdom: Understanding the Saudis. Bloomsbury Publishing USA. p. 92. ISBN 9780313084850.
  2. ^ William E. Burns (2022). They Believed That?: A Cultural Encyclopedia of Superstitions and the Supernatural around the World. Bloomsbury Publishing USA. p. 137. ISBN 9781440878480.
  3. ^ a b Jinn, Encyclopaedia of Islam New Edition Online (EI-2 English), D.B. MacDonald, H. Massé, P.N. Boratav, K.A. Nizami, and P. Voorhoeve
  4. ^ Coeli Fitzpatrick; Adam Hani Walker, eds. (2014). Muhammad in History, Thought, and Culture: An Encyclopedia of the Prophet of God. Bloomsbury Publishing USA. p. 321. ISBN 9781610691789.
Author brief for Proposed additions of text 1
  • Ref 1
    • Published by: Bloomsbury Publishing USA
    • Author brief: Mark A. Caudill is a 15-year U.S. Foreign Service officer who served in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, from 1999 to 2002. Currently he is Vice Consul, U.S. Consulate General, Istanbul, Turkey.
  • Ref 2
    • Published by:Bloomsbury Publishing USA
    • Author brief: William E. Burns . Visiting and Part-Time Faculty, Department of History, Columbian College of Arts & Sciences

William Burns is a historian who lives in the Washington, D.C. metro area with interests in the early modern world and the history of science. ref: columbian.gwu.edu

Proposed additions of text 2[edit]

  • In section "Belief":
* Present sentence in the article for consideration here

Belief in jinn is not included among the six articles of Islamic faith, as belief in angels is. Nontheless, many Muslim scholars, including the Hanbalī scholar ibn Taymiyya and the Ẓāhirī scholar ibn Hazm, believe they are essential to the Islamic faith, since they are mentioned in the Quran.

This above present sentence is supported in the article by Ref: Nünlist, Tobias. Dämonenglaube Im Islam. Germany, Walter De Gruyter Incorporated, p.33.
Tobias Nünlist is independent RS acceptable to both side referring to two scholars Hanbalī, ibn Taymiyya in above sentence.There is no disagreement up til here.
Ref-list and Author brief for Proposed additions of text 2
Reflist for Proposed additions of text 2

References

Proposed additions of text 3[edit]

  • In section "Belief":

Openly expressing of doubt about the existence of j̲inn was not common even amidst the Muʿtazila; and among the erstwhile philosophers, al-Fārābī also, tried to skip the question with vague definitions. Ibn Sīnā was an outlier-- he outrightly rejected their existence.[1] In present-day Islam, only a "small number" believes that jinn in the Quran should be understood symbolically instead of literally.[2]

(In 1995 a Professor Nasr Abu Zayd was accused of blaspheme and apostasy, in part for his alleged disbelief in Jinn.[3] He left Egypt for exile after a joint statement calling for his killing was issued by a group of professors at al-Azhar University, the "theological centre of Egypt".)[4][5]

Ref-list and Author brief for Proposed additions of text 3
Reflist for Proposed additions of text 3

References

  1. ^ Encyclopaedia of Islam
  2. ^ Mark Sedgwick (2006). Islam & Muslims: A Guide to Diverse Experience in a Modern World. Intercultural Press. p. 72. ISBN 9781473643918.
  3. ^ Cook, Michael (2000). The Koran: A very short introduction. Oxford University Press. pp. 46–47. ISBN 0-19-285344-9.
  4. ^ Kermani, Navid (2004). "From revelation to interpretation: Nasr Hamid Abu Zayd and the Literary study of the Qur'an". In Taji-Farouki, Suha (ed.). Modern Muslim Intellectuals and the Qur'an (PDF). Oxford University Press. p. 170.
  5. ^ Murphy, Caryle (2002). Passion for Islam: Shaping the Modern Middle East: The Egyptian Experience. Simon and Schuster. ISBN 0743237439. Retrieved 10 December 2015. it took one week for my name [Nasr Abu Zayd] to be cursed all over Egypt. Even in my village they were saying I was teaching heresies to the students...

Proposed additions of text 4[edit]

  • In section "Prevalence of belief":

Authors and researchers of parts of the Muslim world have compared belief in jinn to that of belief in angels. Writing about Muslims in South Asia. Sarah E. Lamb and Diane P. Mines have called the belief a primary articles of faith in Islam — so that disbelief in them would be heretical;[1] Philip Hermans writes that belief in jinn in Morocco is "very much alive" and part of Islamic dogma.[2]

Ref-list and Author brief for Proposed additions of text 4
Reflist for Proposed additions of text 4

References

  1. ^ Sarah Lamb; Diane P. Mines, eds. (2010). Everyday Life in South Asia. Indiana University Press. p. 278. ISBN 9780253354730. Belief in the existence of jinn is considered equivalent to belief in the existence of angels, one of the primary articles of faith in Islam, and consequently, to disbelieve in them would be heretical.
  2. ^ Hermans, Philip (2017). "14. Struggling with the Jinn: Moroccan healing practices and the placebo effect". In Christiane Timmerman (ed.). Moroccan Migration in Belgium: More than 50 Years of Settlement. CeMIS Migration and Intercultural Studies. Vol. 1. Leuven University Press. p. 310. ISBN 9789462701168. JSTOR j.ctt21c4s72. The belief in jinn is very much alive in Morocco and like the belief in angels and the devil it is part of Islamic dogma

Proposed additions of text 5[edit]

Ref-list and Author brief for Proposed additions of text 5
Reflist for Proposed additions of text 5

References


Reflist-talk

References

Bookku (talk) 07:37, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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