User talk:Magog the Ogre/Archive 16

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Revert at History of the United States

Hey, just wanted to let you know that I reverted your revert at History of the United States which undid my reverting of an IP that removed the opening formatting for boldface, but not the closing formatting. The result of this edit was that the entire rest of the paragraph was made boldfaced except for the title of the article. I'm not sure if you accidentally hit rollback, or if was a deliberate edit, so I wanted to drop a message on your talk page and discuss it to clear up any possible confusion. Thanks. - SudoGhost 03:44, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for informing me; but yes, it was an accident. Frankly, the rollback button is nothing but obnoxious when on my smart phone; it's so easy to click. This time, I didn't even know I'd done so. Magog the Ogre (talk) 21:40, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Disabling rollback button on watchlist. Magog the Ogre (talk) 21:41, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Ah, okay. Thanks for clearing that up. - SudoGhost 10:25, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't understand why you insist on bringing this discussion to my talk page

The image in question was released for use by anyone at all, not merely by Wikipedia. That should be the end of the matter.

Sincerely, --wayland (talk) 09:49, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Special Barnstar
A Special Barnstar for you! Ashwin18 (talk) 21:36, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
Oh well thank you! What is this for? Magog the Ogre (talk) 21:38, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Well, I liked some of your edits, and I also wanted to test this feature :D Ashwin18 (talk) 18:48, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Well thank you! People's whose primary work is in moving images to Commons don't always get a lot of love here. Magog the Ogre (talk) 19:00, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

I'm glad you liked it! EDIT: Also I don't know if the edits were by you or your bot, but since you're responsible for him, you get the love. Ashwin18 (talk) 19:01, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

The next step in dispute resolution

Hello, Magog

I would like to have an advise from a non-involved party (= you) about what should I do next. I have had a content dispute on something. I called MEDCAB and three mediators unanimously accepted my course of action. (I must say that I have been so polite that Mediators suspected that there is no dispute at all.) But the other party member still does not comply and reverts without saying anything new. (He just comments on me.) What should I do next? Call WP:ANI or WP:MedCom?

I intentionally didn't post a link to that discussion so that you can remain uninvolved unless you wish otherwise.

Fleet Command (talk) 05:20, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Absent context, and assuming your versions of the truth is fully true and not withholding any important facts (a very difficult thing to assume... there are almost always two legitimate sides to a story), I have to say that editors who hold out and attack a contributor can unquestionably be a huge hold-up on the legitimate process of moving forward with a dispute. If it's obvious enough, I recommend ANI; if not, I recommend a request for comment on the user, although you'll need a second person to sign for it. Also, I am simply not familiar enough with MedCab to comment on their procedures. Magog the Ogre (talk) 18:36, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I guess I'll take ANI. But, just out of curiosity, does RFC/U have executive power? I mean, if the user refused to comply again, can they do anything preventative? Fleet Command (talk) 08:53, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

HMS Defence (1907)

Launched 1907 sunk 1916 / Battle of Jutland. Photo contmporaneous with launch. Therefore PD-100-old Kittybrewster ☎ 07:01, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

OK, but can you give more information on how you found it? What is in the collection and is there any more information about the photo (e.g., the author... this is very important for establishing PD status on commons)? Magog the Ogre (talk) 18:24, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Arbitration evidence

Just checking ... have you now finished posting your evidence in the Senkaku Islands arbitration case? If not, when do you anticipate you'll be able to do so? Please let us know (here is fine), thanks. Newyorkbrad (talk) 03:45, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I am finished. Magog the Ogre (talk) 04 :19, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
P.S. I would respond to some of the evidence given on the workshop page, but the clerk has indicated it is abuse of the page and will be removed. So unless this has changed, I have no more evidence. Magog the Ogre (talk) 04:22, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for confirming you're done. Someone will let you know if any further input would be helpful. Regards, Newyorkbrad (talk) 04:23, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

I hate to be an @ss, but...

On your userpage, you mention Ayatollah Khomeini as being responsible for the repression of Iranian protests in 2009-2010, when in fact the Supreme Leader today is Mr. Ali Khamenei. Just wanted to let you know. *Closes eyes and makes smug facial expression*

By the way, I'm glad to see fellow Wikipedians caring about what happens over in the Arab World. This really is a great year for freedom and democracy. Master&Expert (Talk) 06:19, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

An embarrassing oversight for a nonetheless valid point. Still, your edit summary alone has saved you from the ridicule of mistaking Iran for an Arab nation (your wordage is not nearly clean enough!). Magog the Ogre (talk) 06:35, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Indeed, looking back over the edit now, it didn't exactly clarify the matter (lol). I think I was half asleep at the time, come to think of it. Master&Expert (Talk) 02:09, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) How comes Iran appears in Wikipedia at all? Here I am thinking that anything related to this country should fall miles short of Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not and Wikipedia:Notability. I mean what does this country have besides some political news not worth reading? Important celebrities or renowned scientists? Significant industry? Powerful king? It doesn't even have Arab population. (I happen to know that they speak Persian which doesn't resemble Arabic at all.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by FleetCommand (talk • contribs) 18:08, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Wtc.png‎ and Mnetzer6.jpg failed deletions

Hi, these files failed your deletion attempt because their Wikipedia Commons counterparts have a different file format (sorry I wasn't aware of it). My question is how can this be resolved as per your suggestion? Is it alright to upload the proper format versions to Commons, which would then leave duplicate files there? Or is there some template condition that would accept the discrepancy in formats that I'm not aware of? Thanks. MichaelNetzer (talk) 07:13, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Commons is OK with having duplicate files if they are in different formats (don't ask me why... they get pretty fussy about such things too). So yes, moving them there is one option. The other option is WP:FFD if you think this version isn't worth preserving; it will usually be deleting here on en.wp if you nominate it this way (although not always). Magog the Ogre (talk) 07:16, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I uploaded duplicates. MichaelNetzer (talk) 08:10, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Oh silly me; you're the author. How'd I miss that ? You can tag the image with {{db-g7}} (hopefully with an appropriate explanation about duplicates, so we don't think you're trying to take your image out of our possession, which we frown upon). Magog the Ogre (talk) 08:22, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Oh I usually try to drive images out of my own possession, so no need for frowning today . Duplicates in Commons have been tagged. Thanks again.MichaelNetzer (talk) 09:23, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Request for cleanup script

Quick request, hopefully not too tough - if an image description contains {{LOC-image}}, would it be possible to get it placed in the "Source" field on {{Information}}? Right now it always ends up in "License" and I have to copy/paste. Not a big deal, don't waste time on it if it's a pain. Thanks! Kelly hi! 21:05, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Sure. In the future, you can place your requests here: commons:User talk:Magog the Ogre/cleanup.js. Magog the Ogre (talk) 04:44, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
PS. Can you provide me with an example or two of the files you've been having trouble with? It makes it a gagillion times easier to code. Magog the Ogre (talk) 04:56, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Probably the best bet would be to try it for yourself if you get a minute...find an en image that transcludes {{LOC-image}} and transfer it over with CommonsHelper. You'll see that the LOC-image template ends up in the license field, even if it's used in the "source" field of the {{Information}} template locally. Kelly hi! 03:26, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

YesY Done I also made it to parse any URLs its sees to the LOC to use the template. Once again, it's not perfect (you made need some manual cleanup afterwards). Magog the Ogre (talk) 05:21, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Many thanks! Kelly hi! 14:03, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Questionnaire

Hi there, I wonder if you would be interested in helping me with my research on Wikipedia. I am writing a dissertation on Wikipedia as part of my undergraduate course at the University of Cambridge. What I am asking is for you to complete a questionnaire with a number of general, subjective questions about your experiences working on Wikipedia, for example concerning Wikipedia's culture, your motivation in participating and so on. It should take 10-20 minutes. Participants will be anonymous if requested. More information is available if you are interested. Thanks! I really appreciate any time you can give! Thedarkfourth (talk) 07:32, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, sure. No promises I will answer every question before I see it. Magog the Ogre (talk) 08:03, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Quick question

Hey, I'm hoping that you can answer a question I keep running into. I've been renaming files in this list, and occasionally I'll see an image under a pd-self or some other *-self license, and a description that gives the image's author a name that is not connected to the uploader's username (i.e. File:TOZathens.JPG). In situations like that, should I assume that the given name is the actual name of the uploader, or mark that image with {{Di-no permission}}? I've been marking them with {{Di-no permission}}, and that's resulted in one OTRS ticket so far, but a lot of these uploaders have been inactive for years. --Gyrobo (talk) 20:32, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

I check a few different things to give me a hint:
  • Checking the username (e.g., if User:JLThomas uploaded a file by Bernadette Smith, I would nominate it at WP:PUF).
  • If the username is ambiguous, I check some of the other uploads by the same user. If the user gives different names for the author with the same license, then I nominate it for no permission/PUF. Believe it or not, this does happen.
  • If I don't see a problem with either (e.g., the username is ambiguous and the editor only uploaded one file), then I just assume good faith. If it says "*-self", the user had to choose the option on the upload screen that s/he was the original author. Basically, we can only verify so much; after a while, the onus is on the uploader to not be lying about the license and/or to check the upload information carefully.
BTW, I imagine one reason you're seeing this so often in the DSCxxxx list has to deal with technical n00bery: if an uploader can't figure out why or how to choose a good filename, the uploader probably can't figure out why or how to specify unambiguous authorship information. Magog the Ogre (talk) 03:26, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! That confirms some of what I expected, and answered the parts I didn't. --Gyrobo (talk) 13:26, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Libyan war map

Could you please change the map of Libya, I don't know how. Sirte should be green with a blue circle, because one rebel fighter returning from the front yesterday night said that previous reports of the airports capture are inacurate because they lost control of it soon after and he said they control less than 5 percent of the city. And based on all the recent reports coming out from there the opposition forces seem to be only still in the outskirts of the city. Here is the source [1]. EkoGraf (talk) 12:10, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

One more source [2] confirming they are still in the city's outskirts. EkoGraf (talk) 14:41, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

DoneDone Magog the Ogre (talk) 03:33, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Need help

Hi Magog,
Even after blocking one user, reverts are continuing in Thiruvananthapuram using anonymous IPs. Please help to semi-protect the page. I am seeking your help since you protected that page a few times before. Cheers, -- Aarem (Talk) 11:45, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

YesY Done Magog the Ogre (talk) 19:19, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Whisperback - Skier Dude

You have new messages
You have new messages
Hello, Magog the Ogre. You have new messages at Skier Dude's talk page. —Preceding undated comment added 22:15, 22 September 2011 (UTC).

Regilio Tuur

I notice that you have recently edited Regilio Tuur and would like to make you aware that I'm seeking consensus on the article on the talk page.--Mrmatiko (talk) 16:00, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Do you think this is vandalism?

Hello, Magog

A user made this change to my talk page. Do you think it is vandalism or not? Fleet Command (talk) 21:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

What do you think? Magog the Ogre (talk) 00:49, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I perfectly know what I think but I take it that you mean "go away you noisy kid! I am so prejudiced that I think you deserve your talk page being vandalized because I blocked you once before." Fleet Command (talk) 06:10, 26 September 2011 (UTC) (preceding comment removed by Fleet Command shortly after being placed here, but restored by Magog the Ogre)

Not at all! It was an attempt to get you to think critically on the issue, rather than hand you the answer on a silver platter (having you understand why I say something rather than just saying it is more valuable, for a number of reasons). But seeing as the attempt misfired and gave you the (mistaken) impression that I look down upon you, I'll lay down my thinking clearly:
The user removed a comment from your page. There are three possibilities:
  1. It was a deliberate removal of content meant to annoy you.
  2. it was done mistakenly.
  3. it was done mistakenly, and noticed afterwards (but the user didn't care because s/he is lazy, annoyed with you personally, in a bad mood, etc.)
The likelihood of all three possibilities:
  1. You will notice that all content added after 14:04, 15 September 2011 was removed and undone. It appears the user was editing an old version of the page; the clue is in the removal of {{pp-semi-indef}}, which makes no sense otherwise. As such, it appears more likely than not, it wasn't done deliberately.
  2. (see above)
  3. it is impossible to determine if the user recognized it or not without being in the room with him/her (or, possibly, being inside his/her brain). It appears, though, given the tone of her addition to your page, s/he was probably fairly annoyed (a.k.a. WP:MASTADON), which was crowding out the good reason centers in his/her brain, and making him/her edit in a poorer fashion.
It was almost certainly done innocently in the first place (what a silly way to vandalize the page! couldn't s/he have used a giant penis or something? WP:DV applies.). It was quite likely not noticed afterwards anyway. And even if it was noticed, we are constrained by policy to assume good faith where lack of strong evidence to the contrary exists (WP:AGF). Think presumption of innocence, just in Wikipedia terms (not legal ones). So the answer is: 99% unlikely it was vandalism, 75% unlikely that it was rudeness (by not fixing the mistaken edit), but that regardless, because you and I are good people at heart, we will assume it was done in good faith. Magog the Ogre (talk) 10:23, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Friendly notification regarding this week's Signpost

Hello. This is an automated message to tell you that, as it stands, you will shortly be mentioned in this week's 'Arbitration Report' (link). The report aims to inform The Signpost's many readers about the activities of the Arbitration Committee in a non-partisan manner. Please review the article, and, if you have any concerns, feel free to leave them in the Comments section directly below the main body of text, where they will be read by a member of the editorial team. Please only edit the article yourself in the case of grievious factual errors (making sure ot note such changes in the comments section), as well as refraining from edit-warring or other uncivil behaviour on project pages generally. Thank you. On behalf of The Signpost's editorial team, LivingBot (talk) 00:02, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Please consider my comments about you here. --Tenmei (talk) 06:59, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

?

[3] Choess (talk) 04:35, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't remember why I put that there, but probably because the lede has a lot of information that sounds like it's out of date (even if it's not): "... in 2001... the town was anxious to find an appropriate owner for the historic property" (no update given on if the owner was found or if they're still anxious); "The Match Factory... was being renovated by the American Philatelic Society as their new home, one building at a time" ("was being" implies an ongoing action; renovated when? 2004? What's the status now?) Magog the Ogre (talk) 14:46, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Commercial Capital

Dear Admin,

I add comercial capital information with solid Government of India references to Kochi article. There are chances the User:Samaleks and others are again to revert this. Please go through it. Below are the solid references 1. http://jnnurm.nic.in/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Kochi_Executive_Summary.pdf - Go to 12th page. 2. http://www.ecostat.kerala.gov.in/docs/pdf/district/ekm.pdf - 1st page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bijuts (talk • contribs) 04:41, 5 October 2011‎ (UTC)

Please try adding your complaint to Talk:Kochi to figure out why they are removing it first. Perhaps you can come to an agreement there. Magog the Ogre (talk) 14:16, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes...User:Samaleks again reverted it. Request you to go through it. --Bijuts (talk) 04:01, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi Magog, This issue was already discussed and closed. Bijuts was also a part of the discussion, and he did not agree to the consensus. Now, he is again showing the edit-warring behavior.
Please see his recent contributions (today's). All are reverts and warring:
Reverts in Kochi:
Reverts in Thiruvananthapuram:
Reverts in Tourism in Kerala:
The user was blocked thrice for edit-warring in various articles for pushing POV in favor of Kochi. Unfortunately, still he is not ready to go in harmony. --Samaleks (talk) 13:56, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Yes, I am well aware of the blocks; I twice blocked him, but it was for edit warring, not POV pushing (just to clarify). At this point in the dispute, I recommend that you continue using the talk page to hash out the issue; it is a content dispute, and admins are by-and-large neutral. We try to guide the community (i.e., you guys) to decide, and only take administrative action when there is disruption (i.e., personal attacks, WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT, etc.). I suggest all sides refrain from reverting for the time being, and engage in a long discussion, as you should be able to come to at least some sort of agreement if you're both being fair.Magog the Ogre (talk) 15:52, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Senkaku Islands closed

An arbitration case regarding Senkaku Islands has now closed and the final decision is viewable at the link above. The following remedies have been enacted:

  1. User:Tenmei is indefinitely topic banned from the subject of Senkaku Islands, widely construed. The topic ban includes talk pages, wikipedia space and userspace.
  2. Tenmei is advised that his unusual style of communication has not been conducive to resolving this dispute. Accordingly, Tenmei is urged to develop a different style of communication, which is more similar to that used by experienced Wikipedia editors. Until this happens, Tenmei is advised not to engage in topics which are the subject of a dispute.
  3. Tenmei is banned for one year.
  4. User:Bobthefish2 is topic banned from the subject of Senkaku Islands, widely construed, for one year. The topic ban includes talk pages, wikipedia space and user space.
  5. User:STSC is warned to avoid any sexualisation of discussions, especially during disputes.
  6. The parties are reminded that attempts to use Wikipedia as a battleground may result in the summary imposition of additional sanctions, up to and including a ban from the project.
  7. The topic covered by the article currently located at Senkaku Islands, interpreted broadly, is placed under standard discretionary sanctions. Any uninvolved administrator may levy restrictions as an arbitration enforcement action on users editing in this topic area, after an initial warning.
  8. An uninvolved administrator may, after a warning given a month prior, place any set of pages relating to a territorial dispute of islands in East Asia, broadly interpreted, under standard discretionary sanctions for six months if the editing community is unable to reach consensus on the proper names to be used to refer to the disputed islands.

    While a territorial dispute is subject to discretionary sanctions due to this remedy, any uninvolved administrator may levy restrictions as an arbitration enforcement action on users editing in these topical areas, after an initial warning.

For the Arbitration Committee, Alexandr Dmitri (talk) 21:30, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Mikemikev sock

Hi, Magog, it looks like we have another one with 94.116.112.197 (talk+ · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log)) - I have removed their comment at Talk:Speed of light and tagged their userpage, but obviously I can't block. Perhaps you can? Cheers - DVdm (talk) 11:35, 6 October 2011 (UTC) tagged the user page

YesY Done Magog the Ogre (talk) 15:45, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

And another one as 94.116.173.187 (talk+ · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log)). Tagged userpage and removed their comment on talk page. This might need a more broad (range) and longer block - DVdm (talk) 07:37, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

The edit was restored by 193.62.111.31 (talk+ · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log)) with a rather viscious edit summary. This editor is the indefinitely blocked editor 이방인 얼라이언스 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (evidence: "I was the IP OP I made a user name."). Edit was removed. User warned on talk page. Got another personal attack on my talk page. DVdm (talk) 10:22, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

That is a huge IP range. I don't feel comfortable blocking the entire thing unless the disruption reaches worse proportions. But it's pretty clearly gotten under the guy's skin. Magog the Ogre (talk) 14:31, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Uploader information

Please leave a record of the fact that I uploaded this file on wikimedia commons. This is not the first time that you have deleted files uploaded by me without ensuring that a proper record been left on wikimedia of who originally uploaded the original image on en.wikipedia,org. Why should I even bother if this is how administrators treat contributors? Thanks, Mathsci (talk) 17:35, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Um, it's right there under original upload log. Magog the Ogre (talk) 17:40, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

This and other similar files that I created are low resolution images from the National Portrait Gallery, London. They were uploaded as alternatives to high resolution images of User:Dcoetzee on en.wikipedia.org, which were not permitted on commons. Have all those images of Dcoetzee now been deleted on en.wikipedia.org? Do you have information about permissions concerning low resolution images from this gallery on either en.wikipedia.org or wikimedia commons? Thanks, Mathsci (talk) 18:10, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm a bit confused by the problem you're facing, but I'll address each issue I see one by one:
  • Most images that are allowed Wikipedia are allowed on Commons. The exceptions are fair use images (i.e., the author still holds the copyright), or images that are public domain in the United States, but not in their country of origin. This will artwork published before 1923 ({{PD-US-1923-abroad}}, artwork in the public domain in the source country in 1996 but restored in that country later ({{PD-URAA}}- the only example I know is Russian artwork where the artist died before 1946 but after 1940), and freedom of panorama concerning buildings ({{FoP-USonly}}).
  • According to WP:CSD#F8, a file is eligible for deletion if it is an exact duplicate of a file on Commons, or an exact scaled down version of that file. This is because an image can be scaled down using wikicode.
  • If you take a photo of a painting, it shouldn't be an exact copy of another version uploaded by someone to Wikipedia. Therefore it isn't eligible for deletion on Commons or Wikipedia. However, an administrator might not see the subtle differences, so you might want to make a notation on the image talk page stating that it's not the same image and shouldn't be deleted.
  • On English Wikipedia, you can mark any image that you don't want transferred to Commons with {{KeepLocal}}. If an administrator makes a mistake and deletes it anyway, you can inform that administrator, and they should undelete it. If, for whatever reason, they won't undelete it, ask a different administrator, as we've generally honored these requests. (PS. I don't know any examples of that happening anyway).
  • I don't know about which images you're talking about; can you visit your upload log and point them out to me?
Magog the Ogre (talk) 18:34, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

This was something fairly well known on wikipedia and concerned Dcoetzee uploading large numbers of high resolution images from the National Portrait Gallery, London. At the time they were not allowed on Commons because of legal proceedings.[4][5][6] They were uploaded on en.wikipedia.org and for a certain period of time had to stay there. Here's an example which has now been moved.File:Lord_Edward_Fitzgerald_by_Hugh_Douglas_Hamilton.jpg Possibly the problem has been resolved now, but at the time it meant that care had to be taken over uploading NPG images. Mathsci (talk) 20:35, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

That is odd. My understanding is that the National Gallery might have standing to sue on copyright grounds, at least in the UK, but that the foundation ignores local laws in favor of US laws in this case. Thus they could sue the uploader (possibly), but they would find it difficult to sue the WMF unless it has financial holdings in the UK. Also, they probably can sue the user for breach of TOS (most TOS's state that an automatic script or mass download is disallowed for a site); this would be only a tort/common law issue though. Gosh, maybe I should have been a lawyer.
In any case, I don't know why it would be decided that the images could be stored on en.wikipedia but not on Commons; they're both the same servers. And I cannot legally advise you on the wisdom of such uploads to either service. But if you want the images undeleted here, let me know which ones, and I'll do it. You probably should tag each image with the {{KeepLocal}} tag as well. Magog the Ogre (talk) 23:00, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for this reply. There is also this wikipedia article: National Portrait Gallery and Wikimedia Foundation copyright dispute. I think by choosing medium resolution images, what I have uploaded is within the terms the NPG laid down even on commons. Perhaps Moonriddengirl knows the WMF's current take on all of this. Mathsci (talk) 23:11, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

OK. You might consider opening a discussion at Commons about this and even creating a template for it. Magog the Ogre (talk) 00:33, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Preposterous!!

I am forced to willfully violate a rule for the first time so that I could respond to you. This is blocked user DileepKS69. I had abandoned Wikipedia after the block, but got the e-mail alert of a Talk Page Edit, and hoped for a re consideration of my block, and what do I see? Another two names are linked to me!!

If having the same POV is equal to sock, then you should first investigate your friends Aarem, Samaleks, Induzcreed, LowerFourth etc. All of them always try to boost Trivandrum and buck Kochi. Samaleks always reverts any edit that is positive on Kochi or negative on Trivandrum even if well backed by reference. In fact, I haven't done any edit at all, without a good reference to back it up.

I know you already have a conceived opinion on these, and going to ignore this rant as TLDR, but read on for the full story.

I got the title of 'troublemaker' because I fought to remove factually incorrect hype from the Trivandrum page. Yes, it made a bit of disruption on the page, but if your friends had shown the decency to accept the valid references, no disruption would have happened.

1. They fabricated a title "Evergreen City of India" for the city. It was done in 2006, and till 2010, it went without a reference. By that time, plenty of circular reference had appeared. There is no record of this title anywhere, other than the cyberspace. All I did was to add a "verification needed" tag, and all hell broke loose!!

2. There is a claim 80% of the software exports are from the city. It was never true, and proven repeatedly by documents. But they are sticking to a government report that just repeated a claim by an IT park, which itself is contradicted by another govt report.

I worked to remove those factual errors, and I became the troublemaker. You too got manipulated into this.

Well, I wish you all success in your endeavor to "keep troublemakers out of Wikipedia". You may respond if you please, but given the experience, I am anticipating a "Stop Trolling" snap.

Have a great day!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.196.142.12 (talk) 02:14, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi Dileep. I have looked at the evidence again, and based on behavioral evidence alone, I am in fact now sure that you and Mountainwhiskey are the same user. I do not wish to disclose the evidence to you (WP:BEANS), but unfortunately, it is obvious to me.
This is the problem with breaking the rules; you've routinely ignored them, under the idea that the ends justify the means. But that's just not how Wikipedia works; nor is it how anything in the world works: if you're a business and you continually break the law because you believe you have a just cause, you're still going to be punished. In short, because you've misbehaved so frequently, with personal attacks, edit warring beyond what is allowed, and sockpuppetry, your claim to the article is entirely ignored.
In any case, I will look at those other accounts and and file a possibly open a report based off what I find. But I don't promise anything. Also, I've often noticed that those who sockpuppet often accuse others of doing the same thing, even when it's not a valid complaint. Magog the Ogre (talk) 15:32, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
Hi Magog, your claim that MountainWhiskey, BijuTS and DileepKS69 are the same individual is Ridiculous to say the least. If your systems prove the above, there is surely something wrong out there that needs to be put in order! I wish you would show us the technical information that proves what you have just claimed above and on other pages.
Just because a few vandals are on the back of everyone who contributes to Kochi and other pages and are bent on pulling them down because that is the only way to sustain their long term intent, and just because they constantly throw warnings on their pages does not mean that they are all the same! Even more, these warring editors have never been looked into because they always proactively complained about the opposing party.
It is also true to a certain extent that the users in question worked on similar pages. But that was not intentional rather it was a result of chasing down editors who were constantly online only to revert valid referenced edits. It just happened that everyone ended up on the same pages all the time!
It is not my nature to crib and complain and post warnings about disruptive users who came online only to revert, make personal attacks and uncalled for warnings. Guess I should have been more aggressive. Well my job was to clean up the place and I have done a fair job I am sure. No regrets. Meanwhile, I hope u find the real vandals here and commend yourself for a good job done. Adios. - MountainWhiskey! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.225.123.187 (talk) 09:27, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Dileep again. I am not seeking evidence for something as real as this computer I type on. I am as Mountainwhiskey as I am Magog the Ogre. But you should have followed Abhishek's line of alleging meatpuppetry. But waitaminit!! There was absolutely no occurrence of common editing between these editors! In fact, after the TVMites raised the allegation long back, I diligently stayed away from anything any other editor started. Edits are public records, so the argument doesn't stick. Technical evidence, most conveniently, need not be shared!!

And coming to the issue of personal attacks, dear Magog, show me one occurrence where I made a personal attack (despite dire provocation especially by Samaleks). Come on.. The edits are public. Indulge me please!!

Edit wars: I have never violated 3RR. Toddst1 once blocked me in violation of an admin policy that multiple edits done together on the same issue should be treated as one. He conveniently used the "Stop Trolling" argument on me. BTW, I thank you for not yet using that silver bullet on me. The latest block, before you initiated the sock investigation, also was not an edit war. I started Talk page discussion, but no one cared to respond there. Check the edit history and the timestamps please. Samaleks just kept on reverting by making his argument on the edit summary. I now understand that some are more equal than others here. Samaleks can get away with personal attacks and blatant edit war, going on reverting without engaging Talk page. He is a seasoned hunter, and I should admit that I am not match to his tactics. Hew got me in finally. Congrats to him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.196.140.217 (talk) 15:43, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

File:Raja.jpg

There is an edit war on this file page. Can you please split the history and fix the issue once and for all? --Sreejith K (talk) 12:39, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

YesY Done Magog the Ogre (talk) 01:18, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Blocks of Bijuts and Mountainwhiskey

Hi. Just to let you know that these two users are not socks of DileepKS69. Their editing style is totally different but with the same pro-Kochi agenda in their editing, and are meatpuppets for sure. There are claims that they communicate offline on what edits to make on these articles. I have also come across another user Arunvarmaother with possibly the same agenda. He has heavily edited Cochin International Airport, and other Kochi related articles, but is not quite active offlate. Would you mind taking a look at this user too? Thanks and cheers. — Abhishek  Talk 07:33, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

What is your evidence for this? As I just posted on MW's page, my head is hurting and my thinking blurry at the moment, so help me along on this. I mean evidence for why a) they are not the same user, and b) you believe they are meatpuppets anyway. Magog the Ogre (talk) 01:23, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

I have interacted with these users. The language they use in their posts or editing is quite different (please see their contribs). But I have noticed all of them glorifying Kochi related articles which is why I said they're meatpuppets. I do remember some user (I don't remember which user though as it was quite sometime back. Although User:Samaleks might be able to tell that) accusing them (with evidence) of using some online forum (probably Skyscrapercity) to discuss what edits have to be made. They're probably a bunch of best friends. But as I told you there's another user Arunvarmaother who also seems to be from the same group. — Abhishek  Talk 01:45, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Mountainwhiskey is a sock of Amazer007. That is for sure. He used both accounts (Mountainwhiskey and Amazer007) to edit-war and thsu to evade blocks. Please check the recent reverts done. I am sure that they all are either socks or meats. In either way, wiki policies do not allow sock puppetry or meat puppetry. Bijuts was not a sock of DileepKS until Dileep got blocked. After the block, he used Bijuts account to push their POV. THis is evident from the language style. And thats why Checkuser resulted in a match with DileepKS69--Samaleks (talk) 11:38, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
Also, see here : unblock_req.. The user admitted that Amazer007 is the sock. Also, his language style shows that he is still possessing arrogance in his edits. He is calling other users as "fanatic vandals" --Samaleks (talk) 11:45, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
@Samaleks -
I don't understand what you're saying about Bijuts. What do you mean he wasn't a sock until Dileep got blocked?
I've unblocked Mountainwhiskey as they are not the same account. However, I suggest taking further action at WP:ANI and/or WP:SSI (again) regarding the policy-breaking meatpupptry if you believe it has occurred, as Abhishek indicates. It is simply too complicated for me to handle on my own at the moment.
Magog the Ogre (talk) 22:26, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
I am afraid that you did a mistake by unblocking Mountainwhiskey. It is quite possible that he is a sock of Dileep. See the two contributions which resulted from the same IP range :
Moreover, the Checkuser results confirms a possible match. Also, with the alternate account User:Amazer007, which was indeed created for edit-warring (also to evade 3R), the user obviously qualifies for a ban. I hope you will re-look in to this once you are free. Thank you, --Samaleks (talk) 13:09, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
Again, there is a lot to deal with here; I'm definitely getting the impression that there is some meatpuppetry going on, but I don't have as good evidence as you do. Please consider putting together a page of evidence and filing an RFC, posting at ANI, or posting at SSI. Magog the Ogre (talk) 23:17, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
@ User:Samaleks - the IPs that you allege are socks do have the same header but belong to different ISPs in India. Please look here: http://www.ip-adress.com/ip_tracer/117.97.101.191 and http://www.ip-adress.com/ip_tracer/117.196.129.58
The first IP (mine) belongs to Bharti Airtel, a private ISP. The second IP (used by Dileep) belongs to National Internet Backbone or BSNL, the state-run ISP. Just FYI - MountainWhiskey - talk 02:07, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Perfidy and Double Standards

Magog, I saw you claim your head hurts, but I guess it didn't hurt when you jumped the gun and took all the extra effort to block me (yes, this is DileepKS69). You made a few allegations on me, but provided no evidence on them. So, I ask again.

1. You said I broke rules so often. Kindly tell me which. Show me when I broke 3RR. Toddst1 blocked me once for 3RR violation, ignoring the policy that multiple edits done together on the same subject for clarity must be treated as one edit. Of course I created another account, which by the letter of the rule was a crime. But you should observe that the account, Jrafale1978, was NEVER EVER used in conflict. It was used only to make non controversial edits. Show me which edit by that account has a conflict of interest with the main account? Tell me what damage, direct/indirect/express/implicit that account did to Wikipedia?

2. You said I did POV pushing, based on allegation by Samaleks. See what HE does! On the Trivandrum page, he wants to retain a title of the city based on no clear reference, while opposing the inclusion of the title "commercial capital" on the Kochi page, which is based on strong evidence. (There are several government documents that says Kochi is called the commercial capital, while there are NONE that says Trivandrum is called the evergreen city of India). Now, it is ME who is accused of POV pushing, and Samaleks walks free.

3. You said I did personal attack. I asked you before, and I ask again. Please, I beg you to show which. Come on.. Indulge me.. On the other hand I can show several ones by Samaleks. Once again, I get blocked and he walks free.

Dear Magog, you got NOTHING on me, other than the 'technical violation' of having another account. You claimed you had evidence that showed that I am Mountainwhiskey. I see you had to retract that. I see Samaleks alleging that I used Bijuts's account to edit. Use all your resources and investigate it also please. I am sure that too will fall apart in no time, because I believe in truth prevailing at the end.

If it is your intention to protect the interests of Wikipedia, what you should do is to permanently full-protect the Trivandrum and Kochi pages. If your intention is to protect certain editors and do their bidding, I wish you well. I believe you acted bona-fide, that is why I am taking the effort to talk to you. If you do think I am bothering you, you are welcome to use the "Stop Trolling" silver bullet, and I shall shut up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.196.129.58 (talk) 02:57, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Since I am mentioned here, please allow me to quickly point some thing. DileepKS69 is accusing that I always walked away. Mountainwhiskey and Bijuts also complains the same. Please check your contributions and see why you are always blocked (despite using multiple accounts). The blocks came from different admins and not from single admin. No one is having any personal agenda against you. It is your nature of contributions and disruptive edits that is calling for a ban. Now, you are accusing Magog (even though it was not he who blocked you). Earlier you accused another admin stating that he is having personal agenda against you.
Let me remind you your own words: "Toddst1 has blocked me in the past also, based on similar complaints. I do not expect justice from him. " [7] "I stick with my impression upon Toddst1 that he was unfair. I have no reason to reconsider that. " [8]
And if you want to see why you are blocked, please go through your (and your socks) unblock decline comments by various admins.
Thank you, --Samaleks (talk) 13:54, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
I will remark that I have no problem responding to genuine complaints on an issue if a user wants to know why s/he was blocked. I take the right to appeal very seriously. However, it can reach a level where a user just filibusters until they get their own way; I recently dealt with another editor who did precisely this, on a long term basis (I will ungraciously point out his name directly: User:Bobthefish2; he was topic banned by Arbcom for a year). To quote a recent Cracked.com article, regarding parenting:

[A] child is using a tactic that they know often works: Making so much noise, for so long, that we just give in..... It's not an attempt to bring the other person around via any kind of logic, it's just a test of stamina. And ultimately, the kid has more time and energy than the parent.

— John Cheese, http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-parental-dick-moves-you-hate-until-youre-parent/
Also, latching like a hook onto a single failure of mine in the past and ignoring the multiple failures of your own would also put you in Bob's company. We all make mistakes (and even now I think I probably didn't but I gave MW the benefit of the doubt anyway). So I highly suggest you don't point the finger like that.
In short, I know what abuse of the system looks like, and I don't plan to put up with it.
Now, to respond to your complaints individually:
1a) I will let your block log speak for itself: [9]. You were blocked for edit warring, and 3RR need not be broken for edit warring to occur. But you already know that; you've just conveniently failed to mention it. Not only this, but the pages you've been editing have been attacked for years on end in edit wars via IP addresses; I don't know if the edits were yours or not (although they were from your range). My point is this: you knew the history and you knew the consequences of edit warring regardless.
1b) As for the sockpuppetry, technically, you are correct; the account was a legitimate use of WP:SOCK; you never used the account while blocked. Feel free to go back to your original account and request unblock with this in mind, and an administrator will take it into account.
2) I give not the tiniest iota of a shit what sort of POV pushing Samaleks did. It's immaterial here. See WP:NOTTHEM.
3)The personal attacks position claim was based off a block of Mountainwhiskey, not you, so I can't defend it.
Is that clear enough? Magog the Ogre (talk) 22:54, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it is clear enough, and the answers are satisfactory. Thanks. I will not trouble you anymore like this.

cheers — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.196.139.65 (talk) 00:49, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Request

Could you turn OgreBot loose on the old revisions of File:Poha.jpg? Thanks! Kelly hi! 02:23, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
Also File:Sona-masuri.jpg. Kelly hi! 03:03, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

YesY Done Magog the Ogre (talk) 03:36, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, another one - File:Poppy-purple.png. Kelly hi! 21:02, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I'll get it later; the API keeps timing out on me, and I'm wanted elsewhere. But I'll get it. Magog the Ogre (talk) 22:26, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Many thanks - do you mind me leaving these requests on your talk page? Kelly hi! 22:30, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Not at all. If you have a lot, I'd just prefer if you wrote them down and gave them to me at once. Use your judgment though - I'm not very picky. Magog the Ogre (talk) 05:12, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

I appreciate it...images with multiple revisions are rare, but such a pain. Your bot is a godsend. Kelly hi! 05:19, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Actually, if you have a file with multiple histories that has not yet been transferred to commons, I have a semi-automatic Bot that transfers the images with its entire history. I can do the task for you, but for files that are already transferred, OgreBot does the job better. --Sreejith K (talk) 05:44, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
Actually, my bot does it too. Unfortunately, I just upgraded my version of PHP, and I've run into a bug in the new version with the garbage collection (tl;dr the bot mostly stopped working). I'll probably be asking for advice tonight on the toolserver IRC on how to report the bug, but it may be out of commission for a while. . Magog the Ogre (talk) 06:29, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
Egads. I found a workaround, and now my bot is actually up and running on the toolserver too: http://toolserver.org/~magog/oldver.php. Now you don't have to ask me anymore! Magog the Ogre (talk) 06:48, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Sweet! Kelly hi! 07:29, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

dw-nsd

Thanks for your advice at FFD about which forum to list images. Regarding this, do you think it would appropriate for me to tag an image with dw-nsd if the photo has an acceptable license, but the underlying content (e.g. sculpture) does not? Thanks, – Quadell (talk) 13:54, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes; I use it for that. I also use {{dw-nld}}. My experience is that the Commons equivalent, {{dw-nsd}}, which I created, encounters a pretty heavy amount of resistance for sculptures and freedom of panorama, so it's best to only use it there in cases where the derivative work is obvious (e.g., photo of a photo). Instead you can just nominate it for discussion on Commons (although people tend to be terribly rude on Commons when you nominate images they like for deletion, much moreso than here). Magog the Ogre (talk) 19:52, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

William Duke of Hamilton

This is a piccie that was painted in 1660 or thereabouts, the uploaded photo is mine and the original oil painting lives in my cousins's house, I scanned it in and put it forth into Commons, with attribution to me. I am the source, so why the deletion prospect? Brendandh (talk) 21:07, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

We have a policy that all images should be sourced; there are several reasons behind this. Please place the information about how you got the file on the page; in this case, it's exactly what you said to me on this page. Magog the Ogre (talk) 06:20, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

From Kevorkmail

What you did means to ruin my contribution history of more than 4 years here in this community. Your way of talk and behavior towards me is very impolite. You have abandoned my account just because I'm adding useful information backed with sourced references... Anyway, I will complain about your attitude to administrators because you are misapplying your powers as an administrator.Kevorkmail 06:23, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I blocked this IP for 48 31 hours for block evasion. Kevorkmail,if you read this here, here's a copy of the rationale I put on that IP's talkpage: "If you wish to contest that block, instructions are on your talk page, which you can still edit. However, you may not edit as an IP or use any other account. Please note that I have no opinion about whether or not the other block was appropriate, only that you cannot get around the block by editing as an IP." Qwyrxian (talk) 06:56, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi

Hi Magog. I have been active in Wikipedia for a long time and has around 45K contributions so far. With my experience and knowledge in mostly around images section, I would like to help Wikimedia more by cleaning up maintenance categories and clearing up backlogs especially in Files that are in Commons awaiting deletion here. Do you think it is a fair idea to run for administrative privileges here? Would you like me to work on something specific or concentrate on specific sections before I nominate myself? --Sreejith K (talk) 06:06, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I will have to formulate a response to that, and I will have to look into your contributions more deeply. A few things:
  • I would be willing to whitelist your name to my Ogrebot script once we clarified just a few bits of understanding. The script works with User:MGA73/nowcommonsreview.js to a) delink files and relink to the new name when it is different on Commons and b) tag images as ready for mass deletion (i.e., I don't check them, I basically just use Twinkle to mass-speedy). Just indicate to me if you're interested and we can work from there.
  • You might consider asking User:Kelly, who is a non-administrator, but does a lot of work with files, especially transferring to Commons. Magog the Ogre (talk) 19:59, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I did not understand the context here, but I am willing to work with you on whatever you plan to do with transferring images to commons. :). Let me know how to proceed. --Sreejith K (talk) 04:45, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

OK; on further consideration of the issue, I think you would be OK to become an administrator eventually, but it's very tough to achieve anymore. You might consider going through an adminitratorship training program like the one that I did. You might consider asking around a few admins. If you can't find anyone else who's knowledgeable in the area, feel free to ask me. Now I don't know if I have enough experience on here to count (although I think and hope I do); also, it would probably take a very long time with me because I would need to blow off steam and I'd go play around mindlessly elsewhere on Wikipedia. Magog the Ogre (talk) 06:24, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
Thanks Magog. I read through your Administrative training program and it was highly enlightening. I will talk to some more admins about ways in which I can contribute to Wikipedia better. Leave me a note if you have any suggestions or advices. I am open for any discussions. May be I should also tell you that I am the 2nd most active Indic admin and the most active Malayalam Wiki admin]. --Sreejith K (talk) 18:57, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Uploaded images

The images I upload are all part of my own archive of more than 15,000 photographs and slides that my were taken by myself, my father and my teacher. This includes all of the Theodore Lukits images, the Victor Matson images, the Von Schenidau images and everything else I upload. I own the copyright on all the images I upload, so your speculation - and that is what it is - that the copyright is in question is incorrect. So, delete them if you want to destroy the integrity of the articles and deprive viewers of being able to actually see what they are reading about. This is why Wikipedia is increasingly a waste of time, because any vandal can destroy an article that someone has put time and energy into writing and adding images to. I have had busybodies delete images from the 1870s because "copyright is in question" and other nonsense. After my stroke, I just don't have the time or energy to spend a lot of time battling people with a red pen and altogether too much time on their hands. User:ArtnHistory —Preceding undated comment added 23:41, 20 October 2011.

This is a very important piece of information. I don't want to delete the images any more than you do; however, for copyright reasons, we want to be careful about what we claim is a free image. Please understand that we have a lot of users who claim to own the copyright for an image that they just found on the internet (illegitimate), or that they have in their possession but they don't have the rights to.
Now, I would like to make sure the images aren't deleted too. It will only take a matter of a day or two to clear things up. So would you to do me a favor: can you indicate a few things for me? First, is your father still alive? How about your art teacher? Second, if your teacher has passed away, was there any sort of arrangement between your father, you, and the teacher regarding who owns the copyright? And third, can you tell me which photos were taken by your father and which by your history teacher and which by you?
I know it's a lot of questions, and I don't mean to push you away from Wikipedia, but I would like to clear this up if at all possible.
Thanks! Magog the Ogre (talk) 18:25, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

My father is very elderly, but still alive. He shot tens of thousands of images of paintings as well as photographs of artists, most of whom are now deceased. 35mm prints, slides, Polaroids, 4" x 5" and 8" x 10" transparencies. I have an archive of tens of thousands of images - original and derivative - and own a number of artist's estates and photographic collections. Wikipedia has "tens of thousands" of derivative images posted, painters like John Singer Sargent, Bouguereau, ect., whose work is clearly in the public domain. Yet, I have posed images from the frigging 19th century and had them deleted! Scanned from my own collection of 19th century images. Lets look at Wayne Thiubaud, whose work a member of my family handled fifty years ago. In his case, "fair use" is claimed. So, these images are legitimate according to the self-styled copyright experts and cultural mandarins at Wikipedia or should they all be deleted just to be safe? Would Wikipedia get a pass from Wayne's attorney or does he simply not care to contest his images here? Most artists and artist's heirs probably like to see an encyclopedia entry so little on Wikipedia is challenged, even when it is clearly copyrighted material. Clearly, there is no rhyme nor reason to it all and that is the downfall of Wikipedia. Just like a bum, everyone has an opinion and all that matters here is some editor's opinion. Someone gets a bug up his bum over shots of a lesser known artist's work and thousands of derivative images of works by famous living artists go unchallenged? I scan from my own collections and usually use a minimal number of images because of the burden of defending what I post, otherwise, I could make the articles even more colorful and interesting. I have culled and destroyed thousands of images my father and I shot this summer alone that have become too burdensome to keep and which wouldn't serve a lasting purpose. Artists, one of whom passed away two years ago and left me thousands of images I haven't even began to organize, know of my archival interests and leave or donate collections to me as well as their copyright. I have the estates of a number of painters who had no other heirs and I am executor for others who are still alive. For example, I have another collection of photographic reference and clip files that weighed 5,000 pounds when I moved it this summer. Hundreds of thousands of images, perhaps millions, much of which is unsalvageable. Much of it would be copyrighted material so I wouldn't use it for the web, while other items were personally shot by the illustrator who collected it. My late brother was a photographer and I have thousands of his images as well, most of which are thus far uncatalogued. At some point, I will incorporate a non-profit to administer my collection because the AAA is decades behind in cataloging their collection and it needs to be preserved, but clearly Wikipedia is too burdensome and time consuming an enterprise to continue to post images to or contribute, so I will have to incorporate something else to share what I have. The images on different entries were taken by different artists and myself or my father. I have a number of artist's archive which includes their personal image libraries (photos of them, their work, paintings they shot in exhibits ect.) which have been left to me. I have been shooting images of artist's work for almost forty years, across the United States and in a dozen other nations. So, on most entries it is a mixture of my own photographs or my family's images and historic images I have scanned from the collections I own. So, in closing, I own the original images that I have scanned and the reproduction rights. ArtnHistory —Preceding undated comment added 05:04, 22 October 2011‎ (UTC).

OK, great. That's exactly what I needed to hear: that you own the estates and the legal rights to the reproduction of the images. The reason we were so confused before is we didn't know that you owned the estate. If your father is elderly and you own the rights to his estate as well, then it's all the same. Is this the case for all the images you've uploaded?
Now, what I can do is go back and undelete any images for which you own the rights, and I will place a note on the page that you are the estate owner. Just confirm for me here which ones you own the legal rights for, and I will do it.
Another thing: if you don't actually own the rights to some of this artwork, some of it will be able for fair use anyway (Wikipedia is pickier about fair use, but we still use it).
I'm truly very sorry about any inconvenience and thanks for your patience in working with me. Magog the Ogre (talk) 22:02, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
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