User talk:Mannyboles

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Grandville, Michigan

Hi there, in regards to your removal of Allyssa DeHaan, having a Wikipedia article does establish notability, but I won't revert your change. This is because I just read through that article and I can't understand how the person is notable enough for an article to begin with. The whole thing reads like a promo piece, but there's all kinds of references so I guess someone does think she's notable. As for the edit summary you left during the removal, it may not have been you intention, but it sounds like you are claiming ownership of the article. As long as a person is notable enough to have an article, than they should be notable enough to be added to a "Notable people" list, because the article itself establishes notability. You can't just say you will add more in the next week and dictate who can be added until then. As long as notability has been established other editors are free to edit the list. Cmr08 (talk) 03:59, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

I just noticed the edit summary you left when editing Allyssa DeHaan's article. You ran out of space, so all I can read is "Other missing city residents not listed were and are" I have already told you in an edit summary that the names were removed because they had no article or sources to support inclusion, but that DeHaan does have an article that established her notability. Just because you believe that someone more notable doesn't have an article is no reason to remove the article of the person you feel is less notable. If you really want to help improve the notable list in article, then write the articles for those you feel are more notable or atleast attribute them to reliable sources, then add them to the Grandville, Michigan article. Cmr08 (talk) 06:41, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

November 2013

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a message letting you know that one of your recent edits to Allyssa DeHaan has been undone by an automated computer program called ClueBot NG.

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• The following is the log entry regarding this message: Allyssa DeHaan was changed by Mannyboles (u) (t) ANN scored at 0.929123 on 2013-11-10T23:01:57+00:00 . Thank you. ClueBot NG (talk) 23:02, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Allyssa DeHaan

I would like to nominate an article for deletion. I did not know the procedure was anything other than deleting as I attempted to do. I am not a wiki-head that knew the plethora of {[. }} rules. Which, by the way, whoever wrote the deletion process rules, they are perhaps the least intuitive thing ever committed to paper. I Am on my third hour trying to figure out what it is trying to explain and am ready to jump of a bridge because it makes zero sense as to how and where to place these tags.

If you would like to nominate an article for deletion, please do so here. Don't just blank the page out entirely first, though. Thank you. --Jprg1966 ^(talk) 23:14, 10 November 2013 (UTC) Jprg1966 ^(talk) 23:14, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Please refrain from making nonconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Allyssa DeHaan with this edit. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted or removed. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Administrators have the ability to block users from editing if they repeatedly engage in vandalism. Thank you. Eyesnore (pc) 23:39, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

I checked the reference, which is to the USA Basketball website, and it was the full national U19 team. —C.Fred (talk) 23:41, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Fred...that is my point. The term u19 stands for a " age group under 19 team" and excludes all the best players in the country ages 20-30 from being on the team... So it is not the highest echelon of competition, it is a USA junior team, NOT team USA adult team who competes in the world championships and olympics etc. This is my point, high school accomplishment are trivial. Will every star football player from al 50 states that has an article references to his name be considered notable? Wiki policy states it is the place fir exceptional noteriety. Even a ms basketball from your star makes you one of 50 in the state the year you earn it. That means the four years while dehaan was in college 400 high school women were named ms. Basketball in their state. Will wiki pit all 400 women down as notable as they go on to college and have less stellar careers? Also look at the college stats., touting Stafs I doubt are even tracked, things like 3rd most blocked shots as s freshman, 5 time player of the week. These are all self tracked by the athlete, certainly not listed in a sports information book as a record. ( Only the person with the record for blocked shots will be recorded., not the fourth highest or even second.) this post is of a girl who got to play college basketball, great fir her. But she list things like top 25 centers in the country. Where dies a list like that even exist? Notability would be: four time ncAa division all American., she never did it. 4 time big ten first team all conference. I don't theink she ever did that. The point is, there are NCAA division one champions who hailed from grandville. There us one family that between the siblings, the brothers earned 10 NCAA division one and -12 big ten first team births in their sports, and dehAan does not even do it once? Again, she played college ball on the big ten level., but literal 100 from the city did. It's simply nit notable enough to be listed two weeks ago as the only notable name of people from our city. In fact, it's absurd. We had on dr. Who tracked the human genome project., Brett gates played pro baseball for 10 years as did several others. You get the idea. The way it stands now in the "athlete bio" criteria, any high school athlete that submits an article as a reference is considered notable. Wiki editors., you need to change this. Why? Each year, in all 50 states, in basketball alone, there are first team all state athletes to the tune of five athletes. 5 x 50= 250 a year. So after 20 years we are going to have 5000 notable high school athletes for womens basketball? That is one sport. And here is something to understand. Most high school athletes don't mms the elite level in college Frankly, because most high school athletes that win miss basketball competes against average skilled athletes. High school accomplishment is not hard to attain. Getting An article written saying you were notable is quite easy. What IS hard is getting sn article written that you were an NCAA all American division one, or became a pro athlete , or made an adult usoc (us Olympic committee team) ... And nit a kiddie development team. These are the problems with this post. But what really needs to happen is wiki editors establish a better criteria for notability other than a reference in a newspaper and a standard that high school accomplishment is not enough. On the collagiate level the standard should be: has the athlete reach the highest level of the sport which is first team NCAA all-American. After college, have they mDe the adult teams like the world championships, the professional ranks. I hope this heap change the posting of also rans and mediocre athletes. And yes... Wiki should check to see if NCAA champions and all Americans and at least if professional athletes that came from grandvill like doug Wynn, Brett gates, rodger Bastien, Gary bAstien, Terry johnson who between them earned 50 plus division one all American awards, literally several million in professional income, probably 40 births to adult USA teams, before putting a high athlete who got to play some college basketball on a respectable yet certainly not an elite or notorious NCAA career gets listed as the sole person of note from the city of grandville. She was a very good high school player and earned her keep as a scholarship athlete but did not reach the elite ranks on the collegiate level. Certainly does not warrant the posting of when she got engaged or for that mAtter brief grasp of extended glory plYing a few games at small giac school playing volleyball. If you feel this should remain at notable, pleeeeeesse have the good sense to take off the untracked self promoted tracking of stats like: 4 place all time freshman blocked shot record holder., ←Mannyboles (talk) 17:06, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

While I don't agree with the way you are trying to do this, I do agree that there are problems with the article you want deleted. It reads like a promotional piece, full of statements that sound more like trivia, and appears to be using her own personal blog as a source. However, that being said, a check of the articles history shows that it was created over 6 years ago and edited by many different editors, so some editors obviously do believe she's notable enough for an article. The article should be cleaned up to remove the puffery, not butchered because one editor doesn't think she is notable enough to be here.

Again I see you are trying to argue the point that there are people missing from the Grandville, Michigan notable person list that you think are more notable, so I repeat to you, the fact that she has a Wikipedia article establishes her notability and supports her inclusion as a notable person in that article. The fact that others don't have articles, is no reason to remove all content from an article you believe to be less notable. If there are other notable people, they should be listed there, but notability has to be established first. That is done by writing the article, or even just attributing the names to reliable sources. Cmr08 (talk) 02:31, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Cmr08, I totally agree with your statement that there are ways and places to request removal or review. The problem is, as I noted, the interface fir doing so is filled with abbreviations and links to links, that after four hours if study this morning, the process still mDe no sense. I realize that for many editors this is your hobby and the process makes sense, but for the IRS tax code, for an outsider, this is all but impossible to figure out so the only place I could see request fir removal was to do it here. Yes, I do think I know now how to submit the Brahms athletes who were tenfold accomplished. But realize if you read your own rules on noteriety., that wiki says that to be listed a person who is an athlete should have made the tip ranks in their sport. Segway simply was a decent player in college and did nit reach the elite ranks. Having her boyfriend or father or herself under a couple assumed names enter herself as notable, is absurd. Why does this matter? In the 50th anniversary of the JFK assassination, wiki stAtes that the pink dress Jackie wore in Dallas was a dress designed by Chanel. The fact is, she chose not to wear a designer dress in Dallas that day Nd instead she chose to wear a knock off no brand dress. How does this relate to rdehaan? If you cant get the fActs right as editors fir a 50 year old details that are common knowledge, how will you get the details right for an dead town like grandville. Wiki is crucified by the public schools for such Inaccuracies. If you are not going to get obvious facts right and now not reLly cars to follow your own guidelines for notable athletes, then why waste time having wikipedia. Here I am a city historian who hD lived in that city since 1966 and I am telling you this dehaan person is grossly inflating her record. Simply, she is not an elite level athlete, regardless of who is missing from the list at present. I can understand your frustration of dealing with non wiki editor geeks like me not wNteing to spend 25 hours reading the abbreviation instead of just pushing in an editing button to tell you, " we dont need to fill wiki with high school athletes yeoman level college athletes. The fAct is users like me who see the word "edit" on a tab take it to mean what it means, which is, " the place to remove inactivate content." so that is what I did. Myself Nd others are nit trying to vandalize wikipedia, we just are doing whT the tab invites us to do, which is, edit under the edit button. 8 have six years of college, in quantum science... Shouldn't become clear after three hours of going over your rules how to easily follow your editing rules. It appears to me that wikipedia have designed an non usable system filled with insider abbreviations.bif you can't direct a user in three clicks a solution to use this, you should then consider nit having wiki to be a user contribution model, but a model where the editors write the articles. Again, no intent to vandaliize this, just find it I Possible to edit. I m glad you agree te dehaan entry needs a lot of work. I honestly think if you read the athletic bio guidelines then you will see than maybe all that shoul be loses about dehAn is that she wAs ms. Basketball winner and played at Michigan state. But like I said in last post, that violates the " no mediocrity concept that wiki states it is trying to avoid. Again, nearly every decent running back on any highs school team can generate Blocal shoppers guide article that he or she was high point scorer of the meet. So, if you tell me, " several authors think she was notable ( her dad, her brother , her boyfriend, then she deserves on that being an athletes note. If this is now the wki policy you ne'er to revisit this and discuss as a group of editors. If you don't, there will literally be 4 million high school athletes listed as notable athletes intheir town. To change it is easy., o ly not the highest level if ncAa division one all Americans ( top 8 fir Olympic sports) and first team fir l other sports. In sports like track and field, dis thy make world championship teams, what was their national rank? It should be top ten., and of course pro ranks and Olympians. I am not an editor, but trust me, I am right on this. You any to acknowledge on the very best intheir sport and right now you have nit addresses this. And without even knowking the stats I am sure this has become a huge problem at wikipedia. I hope this all Helps. I hope it gets you editors to discus it. I do t intend to point out any more on dehAaan. What is notability? The answer is, when you reCh the very top ranks of your sport. High school miss basketball, there are 50 per state per year. That is 500 athletes every decade in a national basis. Maybe there's of those 500 become first team all Americans, maybe one goes pro. This I retyped because my last post hD typos when I tried to type it. Good luck on this. Hope you guys set your stNdRds a lot higher fir notability.

You are still missing the point here, I'm not actually commenting on if she is notable or not. What I'm trying to say is that as long as she has a Wikipedia article she can be added to a notable person list because the article itself establishes notability. If you want the article deleted, nominate it and present your case and see what happens. As for your remarks about who wrote the article and doing it under assumed names, do you actually have any proof that the statement you made twice here is true? If not then you should refrain from making accusations against people. Cmr08 (talk) 07:16, 12 November 2013 (UTC)