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Wikidata weekly summary #455

Wikidata weekly summary #456

March 2021 at Women in Red

Women in Red | March 2021, Volume 7, Issue 3, Numbers 184, 186, 188, 192, 193


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--Rosiestep (talk) 18:48, 26 February 2021 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Wikidata weekly summary #457

please check

I was sure I had sent an email, could you confirm on or off wiki - doesnt matter either way - strange. JarrahTree 00:30, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

go figure moment -

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q21303598
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q21384789

against https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tree_based_usnea_scabrida,_Drummond_Reserve.jpg arrgghhh JarrahTree 03:44, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi @JarrahTree:. Usnea scabrida subsp scabrida is the description of this file. Therefore it is appropriate to use it to illustrate both the species and the subspecies: Usnea scabrida (Q21303598) and Usnea scabrida scabrida (Q21384789). (Not sure what the problem is??) Cheers, MargaretRDonald (talk) 04:58, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
ahh I thought I had seen ascribing the item to being fungi - maybe I was misreading the record... JarrahTree 05:13, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
I have just changed the descriptions in wikidata (You many wish to change the article's short description).... Cheers, MargaretRDonald (talk) 05:22, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

A tag has been placed on Category:Taxa named by Paul Kummer requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Liz Read! Talk! 16:34, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi Margaret. None of the taxa you placed in this category were actually named by Paul Kummer. Take for example, Inocybe lacera (Fr.) P.Kumm. (1871). The species was originally given a "name" by Elias Magnus Fries, as Agaricus lacerus Fr. Paul Kummer transferred the species to the genus Inocybe in 1871. When Kummer transferred it to a different genus, the "name" stayed the same. ("name" = "epithet" = "specific epithet" = "species epithet" = "species name" - these are used interchangably, and all mean the second part of the binomial name). Hope that helps with your future categorisation efforts. Esculenta (talk) 18:52, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for the interpretation, @Esculenta:. I would agree that the first naming is by Fries. However, the name does change with the genus change, with the epithet staying the same (but agreeing with gender of the new genus). And of course, the description is changed with the change of genus. Perhaps you could give a reference for your interpretation. (Certainly within the plantae, it is the practice of wikipedians to also use the final authority in a "named by" category.) Regards, MargaretRDonald (talk) 19:01, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
No, the "name" does not change when the genus changes. As above, the "name" = the specific epithet. The description does not necessarily change either. See the article Author citation (botany) "In botanical nomenclature, author citation is the way of citing the person or group of people who validly published a botanical name, i.e. who first published the name while fulfilling the formal requirements..." If there are instances of plant taxa also using the final authority (i.e. the genus changer) for author categorization, then this is simply wrong, and the incorrect categorizations should be removed. Esculenta (talk) 19:11, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
For hopefully extra clarity, I should also point out that the parent category is Category:Botanical taxa by author (a subcategory of Category:Taxa by author), which should make it clear that the author of the taxon is who gets put in this category. Esculenta (talk) 20:53, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for your help on this. @Esculenta:. I believe the category should not be deleted until more wikipedians have read these arguments. (I did not find your reference compelling, but perhaps I misread it.) Meanwhile what you are suggesting would mean changes in the practice of many, many wikipedians, so I would like some time before the category is deleted to allow others to put their point of view. MargaretRDonald (talk) 21:33, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Ok. It's clear to me, but I would also welcome the opinion of other Wikipedians. There is currently a discussion about this type of categorization (taxa by author) in another thread at the WP:ToL talk page, so it would be a good idea to get this all sorted out at the same time. Esculenta (talk) 23:03, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

This is quite a complex issue, and there are very important differences between the two main codes. It's necessary to be very careful about the terminology: see the table at Binomial nomenclature#Codes. You can't write much about binomials without stating the code that applies. I'm afraid that Esculenta is wrong above in equating some terms without being clear as to which code applies. The second part of a binomial is a specific name in the ICZN, but only a specific epithet in the ICNafp. The attitudes of these two codes to transfers reflect this difference. In the ICZN it's absolutely clear, I think, that those who make transfers do not create new names, and indeed are not (normally) even credited with the transfer, which is merely marked by the parentheses around the name of the author of the specific name. So in zoological names, the transferrer should definitely not be placed in the same category as the author of the specific name.

There's more of a case for treating transferrers as authors for botanical names, but I still think it's not right to put them in the same category as the original author. When a transfer of genus is made and the specific epithet remains the same, this will be published as comb. nov. Only if the epithet has to be changed because it would create a homonym of an earlier combination is it said to be nom. nov. (a replacement name in more recent usage). So even under the ICNafp, the publisher(s) of the original combination (i.e. the one that first used a particular epithet), the basionym, are treated differently from the publisher(s) of a new combination, although both are more plausibly described as "authors".

So in summary, I do think it's wrong to put basionym authors and combination authors in the same category, regardless of the code. Peter coxhead (talk) 23:45, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

@Esculenta:, @Peter coxhead: Thanks for this. For me, the issue is less about the naming conventions of the codes, but rather more about wikipedian conventions for linking authors (whether "de novo" or creating new combinations) to their work. IPNI records authors as having named taxa whether they wrote the original description or created a new combination, and I would prefer our wikipedian conventions to follow its lead. We could distinguish the two kinds of authors in our wikipedia categories, but I suspect it would be less useful than the current practice, which allows (like IPNI) a simple numerical summary at the top and would require fewer button bresses. If we must have different categories for both kinds of authors, I hope someone will propose a category name, because I do think people like Paul Kummer should be linked to the things he changed. (People's work in wikipedia should be demonstrable as well as referenced. And the category system with its "Taxa named by" has been a useful mechanism for this.) MargaretRDonald (talk)
@MargaretRDonald: I sympathize with your point, but there remains the problem that many biologists created names/combinations for both plants and animals, and it seems wrong for them to be put into a category for transferring a plant name but not an animal name – in terms of the philosophy of categorizing it makes the category inhomogeneous. There are two solutions:
  1. Treat the "Taxa named by" categories as authors of ICZN specific names and ICNafp basionyms. This makes the categories consistent with the "... described in YEAR" categories, which definitely mean "first described in". There could then be separate categories for combinations (but this leaves the issue of changes of rank unresolved).
  2. Have separate categories for the codes of nomenclature, which could then have different inclusion criteria.
Clearly this needs wider discussion. Peter coxhead (talk) 09:26, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

A tag has been placed on Category:Taxa named by Hansjörg Eichler requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Liz Read! Talk! 15:55, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Using page mover

When using Page mover as an event coordinator, it's best to de-select the option to create a redirect from the editor's sandbox. Oronsay (talk) 15:16, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, @Oronsay:. I thought it might be helpful for new wikipedians when trying to return to their editing..MargaretRDonald (talk) 19:24, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
MargaretRDonald, Problem is that the sandbox is now created by MargaretRDonald and so their next article, even if moved correctly, will still have MRD as the creator. Better to pop a note on their Talk page to advise of the move. Oronsay (talk) 19:27, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
Oronsay, Thanks, for that. (I had thought that the sandbox having been created by them would remain created by them, redirect or not!! Will fix MargaretRDonald (talk) 19:32, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
MargaretRDonald, I don't know that you can. I was thinking of asking Canley. Oronsay (talk) 19:38, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #458

@Oronsay: Thanks for pointing out the new Australian IDs. They are pointers to excellent sources... MargaretRDonald (talk) 22:37, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #494

Wikidata weekly summary #495

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December 2021 at Women in Red

Women in Red | December 2021, Volume 7, Issue 12, Numbers 184, 188, 210, 214, 215, 216


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--Innisfree987 (talk) 00:12, 27 November 2021 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Wikidata weekly summary #496

Congratulations!

Top 1000
Congratulations on achieving 998 on the List of Wikipedians by article count. Oronsay (talk) 04:13, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
Thanks, @Oronsay: I think it will be a very brief stay in the first 1000. (Great choice of image) MargaretRDonald (talk) 04:53, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
You may be right. 8 of the 11 in the next group who have created 700+ articles are still currently editing.--Oronsay (talk) 05:06, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Excellent work

The Bio-star
For superb work expanding Wikipedia's coverage of life's diversity. TeaDrinker (talk) 06:39, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for noticing. @TeaDrinker: MargaretRDonald (talk) 07:07, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Styphelia/Leucopogon

Hello Margaret,

You added Styphelia mitchellii to the list of Styphelia species using PoWO as the reference. Unfortunately, it's not listed at the Australian Plant Census, so I've moved it to Leucopogon mitchellii. I acknowledge my error in stating that S. mitchellii is listed as a synonym at PoWO, but since the species list in the article uses APC as the reference, it would look a bit odd to include it in the list. Apparently Crayn et. al. clumped some Leucopogon specis as well as Astroloma and Coelanthera. As usual, the APC is slow to catch up. We could resolve this by using PoWO as the reference to the species list, or add the species clumped by Crayn in the second list, lower down the page. Your thoughts? I'm happy to do the updating, whichever way you go. Gderrin (talk) 07:32, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Hi Geoff. Yes I should not have added it into the list without changing the reference.. Styphelia is something of a mess as it is unclear whether it is a matter of scientific disagreement or just a failure to catch up (although APNI references the papers used by FloraBase as justification for their changes.) I think the simplest thing might be to simply delete Styphelia mitchelli from the list of Styphelia species and wait. The article for Leucopogon mitchellii states some of the story about acceptance or otherwise. And genera articles do not always give complete lists. The annoying thing is that I have not been able to get the Queensland plant census of 2020 which would give a definitive view of whether the Queensland herbarium accepts the change to Styphelia mitchellii....@Gderrin: MargaretRDonald (talk) 12:30, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #497