User talk:Moni3/Archive 7

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Blue Tilapia

Just a quick heads up for you: I am working on fixing that redlink for Oreochromis aureus in the Restoration of the Everglades article; I'm attempting to get a WP-compliant and licensed photograph to go with it. I'll let you know when I push it into article space. (It's currently in one of my sandboxes getting developed and referenced.) Horologium (talk) 20:41, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Sweet! Well done! Due to a peer review, for which I am very thankful, I just created three more red links in Geography and ecology of the Everglades. They're rather like whack-a-moles. Someone created an article for Charles Torrey Simpson based on the red link in the Draining and development of the Everglades article, and harumph—copied my text for it. Hmmmp. --Moni3 (talk) 21:01, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I think I'm done; just waiting for the image to come through. Can you take a look at User:Horologium/sandbox3 and tell me if there are any glaring omissions or errors that leap out at you? I'd like to run this through DYK when I push it into article space, so any hooks you see or can think of would be a good thing too. BTW, I'll see what I can do about the Crown conch redlink you ginned up. (grin) Give me about a week on that; my plate is going to be full for a few days. Horologium (talk) 23:50, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey, that article looks awesome. Well done! They're pretty popular aquarium fish. I'm surprised the article didn't already exist. --Moni3 (talk) 23:56, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

OK, It's live at Oreochromis aureus. I got an awesome picture off flicr, after asking the photographer to give it a CC-BY-SA license. Horologium (talk) 18:05, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Nice job. Thanks, Horologium! Good pic, too. (What, they're not blue??) --Moni3 (talk) 18:37, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Next up is Melongena corona, which might be easier; I am actually familiar with them. (I have a shell stored away somewhere; I collected one at Fort Myers Beach while it was still legal to collect live specimens.) And Blue Tilapia are blue, but only on their ventral fin. Horologium (talk) 20:51, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

backfill?

Moni, did your sources use the word "backfill" in the sense of "the canal backfilled"? Websters, AMHER, Wiktionary, the pocket OED, and a few other dictionaries don't have that sense. All but two of them say it's transitive. Webster's will let you say "it was backfilled" or "he backfilled with silt" intransitively, but not "it backfilled". What do your sources say? - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 22:36, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

They say "...it was backfilled". Does the Restoration article leave that word out? Off to go see. --Moni3 (talk) 22:40, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Ah, nevermind, I had been looking at an earlier version that said "it backfilled". It's fixed now. - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 23:00, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm just checking, because I might be too heavy-handed here. I'd like to replace "state and federal agencies worked at finding solutions to balance the needs of the natural environment" with "...agencies looked for ways to balance...", or "...have tried to balance..." If state or federal agencies actually did any work every time they said they did, we wouldn't have these problems. What do you think? - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 00:18, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

That reads well. Do you think it implies mission accomplished? Or is that not a concern since the rest of the lead explains it's an ongoing effort? --Moni3 (talk) 00:30, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it implies mission accomplished, it's just that "have tried to find ways" sounds neutral, while "worked at finding solutions" just sounds like something a bureaucrat or politician might say...maybe...and if so, it lowers the credibility of the information. I'll make the change; feel free to revert. - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 00:36, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Mercury Pollution

I recently had a chat with my aunt, who works for the EPA, about the Everglades. She said that she had done some work regarding the mercury levels in the Everglades region, and even mentioned the very same panther episode that you discussed in Restoration of the Everglades. I asked her if she had any advice on where to find more information about mercury, and she gave me a few experts (including herself) to contact:

• Rochelle Araujo, my aunt, EPA Office of Research and Development: araujo.rochelle@epa.gov
• David Krabbenhoft, USGS Scientist, Co-Chair of the 2006 International Mercury Conference: dpkrabbe@usgs.gov
• Cynthia Gilmour, Senior Scientist at the Smithsonian Environmental Research Center: gilmourc@si.edu

She said that of the people she's worked with, Krabbenhoft and Gilmour know the most about mercury in the Everglades. I suggest contacting them either to find more information or to try to get them to review the articles. --Cryptic C62 · Talk 02:03, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

It's worth considering. Though, walk with me in my mental groves here... I just nominated the article for FAC. I've contacted the University of Florida Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences extension in Belle Glade, the Audubon Society of the Everglades, the South Florida Sierra Club, and Friends of the Everglades, inviting them to review the set of articles, though I haven't noticed any external edits, and I got two responses from groups saying they would try to read them. The mercury section is small compared to the scope of the article as a whole. And the source I used, Lodge's Handbook of the Everglades is pretty much the best (and only?) comprehensive view of Everglades geography and ecology. I wonder - would these sources be able to review the article for more than mercury? Or did you have a specific concern about the content in this section? --Moni3 (talk) 02:25, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

The mercury section is quite small, but Rochelle seemed to think it to be a fairly large issue. We came to the conclusion that perhaps there could be a Pollution in the Everglades article or some such. One way or the other, you could simply find out what they think about mercury in the Everglades. --Cryptic C62 · Talk 02:42, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Cryptic. I'm not ignoring you. I hope you understand I'm really tired from writing those four articles, going through GAs, FACs, Peer reviews, and such. I don't have the energy right now to write another article. I'm not saying it won't ever happen, but I'll put it on a shelf for now. I'm just really tired. --Moni3 (talk) 14:41, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm falling apart

My heart is broken and will never be able to be put back together. I am so sorry to vother you but I just don't know what to do.

I made this video for Isaac for our 15th anniversary. I just wanted somebody to see it. The last pictures are from our wedding day. Please forgive me for bothering you. Jeffpw (talk) 22:41, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Once when I saw my brother's response of "No" to one of those ubiquitous myspace questionnaires asking (intended for someone 15 years old or so) "Have you ever had your heart broken?" I wondered how on earth that could be. No one but a stone cold asshole could go through life and not have his or her heart broken, I thought. What breaks our hearts changes our outlooks, forms our beings for better or worse. I've not been so unfortunate as to lose a spouse, and I wish I knew exactly what to say to comfort you, but I know even if I had the experience there's nothing I could do to make you feel better. For that, I'm sorry. I can only imagine you feel lost and rudderless, unsure of who you are. If I have any suggestion, it's a poor attempt I know. When you're ready, work to honor him, even somewhere as small as here on Wikipedia. Work on the topics he loved: textiles? Shirley Bassey? I would have a need to stay busy until I had the frame of mind to come out of my grief. Once again... I know it means nothing. I wish I could do more. --Moni3 (talk) 23:00, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

I watched the video. My Dutch is rusty.

I love you, Moni. Jeffpw (talk) 23:47, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Jeff, there is nothing you can do; the only way around grief is through it. You can't hide from it, you can't get away from it, but it will let up ... some day ... some day, you will be able to live with it. For now, please allow yourself to cry and scream and despair. I don't know how to imbed the video, but I'm sure someone will. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:51, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your boundless compassion, Saady. I am now very highly sedated and going to bed. Tomorrow I must translate all the speeches from America into Dutch, so I must go to bed to face another (empty) day. I wish I was not so pathetic, and I hope you and God can forgive me for my weakness. Jeffpw (talk) 23:56, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

I hope you can get some rest; there is no way to be anything but pathetic when facing the depths of despair and loss. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:01, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Mmmm. Sedation... Love you too, darlin'. And you too, Sandy. --Moni3 (talk) 00:09, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

At the risk of being the only straight person in the grouphug, I wanna hug too (see my talkpage for context as to how I arrived here - I promise I'm not a stalker...). Okay, now I'm really going offline...it's amazing how therapeutic Wikipedia(ns) can be when you need them...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 00:12, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Wha? Sandy's not straight? Then, how you doin'? --Moni3 (talk) 00:17, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Last time I checked, I was straight; should I check more often? Love and hugs to all, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:19, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to help with the embed, but I don't think I can as the song is copyrighted... Gary King (talk) 00:27, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

You don't know me from Adam, Jeff, but as a widow, all that I can tell you is that time won't heal, but will dull the pain. You must, as Sandy says, allow yourself to cry and scream and be angry and upset. Do it at your own pace, don't let people tell you you shouldn't be upset any more, either. Everyone takes grief differently. (hugs) to you too. (sorry Moni for hijacking) Ealdgyth - Talk 01:23, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Michael Jackson Peer review

Hello there, the Jackson article is at peer review at the moment, I plan to take it to FA soon. Would you be able to give me some advise on the article or consider helping with a copy edit? Its a very good article, it just needs a brush up, something I'm not sure I can provide it. Hope you have some time to spare on it, regards. — Realist² (Who's Bad?) 14:15, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Ficus aurea

Thanks. And I'd love pictures, especially if they are natural habitat pix. Guettarda (talk) 15:18, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

I shall do my best to find some for you. --Moni3 (talk) 15:40, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Newsletter

I see you've started a new edition of the newsletter. I tried to fix the section headers so we wouldn't need the "no toc" (spacing so it doesn't work here) command which then affects the whole page. For some reason though, it didn't work properly, even though it looks like how we've done that before. I posted something about it on the the talk page of the workpage. Aleta ^Sing 20:42, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

I saw it =). I was just going to post a note on the LGBT talk page, but dang...you're fast. Thanks. I'll look at it over the next several days. --Moni3 (talk) 20:44, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Happy Birthday, America!

I made this as my birthday present to America. I hope you enjoy it. Jeffpw (talk) 12:28, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Armchair quarterbacking

In Talk:Homosexuality, you wrote: "my comments may be both helpful and aggravating." I think the best comments are often both of those things, and I just wanted to say I appreciate yours. I avoided this article for a long time because I too was wary of getting sucked in, and now the risk is becoming all too real. Thanks for being a voice of reason. Rivertorch (talk) 21:04, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeh. I appreciate yours, too. I hope we can salvage the article to appease the masses... or at least keep it off the ANI page. --Moni3 (talk) 21:17, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Give a holler

...if/when you're ready for a copyedit of Everglades. Looks like we've got no static at Restoration, and Geography looks very good to me. - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 00:38, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Possible newsletter idea

The absence of Satyr has meant Satyrbot is disabled thus new articles not being tagged, etc. I wonder if it makes sense to convene a cabal meeting to see what makes sense to sort it out (force Satyr back, temporary other user, replacement bot request, etc.) Banjeboi 02:17, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

What sort of form might this meeting of the cabal (which does not exist) take? I agree with you. If you can get interested participants, keep me filled in. --Moni3 (talk) 12:14, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Maybe just direct those who don't exist to the project talk page and we'll see if anyone steps up. If nothing else I can follow up with bot people to see if some (very basic and technically unchallenging) bots can be set up to myself. I believe all bots have to be associated with a user but the whole subject is a bit of a mystery. Banjeboi 15:27, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok. I'll put it in the newsletter inviting those knowledgeable about bots to give input. I'd like to recharge the article improvement drive. I'd like to see more editors work to get GAs and FAs. I can't do much else but that for the project. Maybe I can help others who need a direction. --Moni3 (talk) 15:30, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Well I'm in the category of those working on the front lines of generally nurturing the stubbies from getting deleted and rarely go through the processes of getting them bumped up in status. Perhaps you could also add a few of your favorite links to inspire those who may be interested. Banjeboi 15:45, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Trip

Sorry to hear about your trip (or lack thereof). Luckily for us, there are no deadline in Wiki-world :) (Sub-)Tropical plant pix are always welcome. I'm sure I can find something to do with them. And, btw - thanks for the link that led to my first FA since 2005. Guettarda (talk) 16:35, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

WR

Interesting of you to mention WikiReview; kind of Awadewit to provide "abuse of authority" charges so I can be smeared there. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:49, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Just after I posted that comment I went to the forums to see it for the first time. I saw the issue at ANI: should it be promoted at DYK if it has "outed" editors? I actually don't know, because I didn't stay too long, if FAC—or you, for that matter—have been discussed. I think a discussion about how you go about making the decisions you do would alleviate abuse of power concerns. I'm, honestly...I don't know quite what to say about it. I find the FAC page the last refuge of the intelligent (HELLO! judge much?) and this discussion is rather like a horrible accident I cannot look away from. Having a stake in it because I like and trust you both gives me the feeling that I should step in and do something. Or perhaps this is a fortuitous circumstance to prompt me to concentrate more on my art. I'm very confused. --Moni3 (talk) 17:59, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

It's naive to think that some discussion about how I make decisions can prevent someone from lodging false accusations against someone who puts their neck on the line to do a service to the community, and then can end up smeared on WikiReview as a result. Anyone can say anything on the internet, and it will be replayed to advantage of those who seek to undermine Wiki. Clearly, I can only serve if I have the support of the community, and I have no interest whatsoever in doing this job if one decision in 1,000 is questioned in such an egregious manner. The "abuse of authority" charge is a clear AGF violation, and it hasn't been retracted or amended. Who do you think wants to serve the community under such circumstances? Your last refuge of the intelligent just went down a very black hole, and I didn't take it there. I'm not at all confused. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:16, 9 July 2008 (UTC) And by the way, do you really think charges that I "abuse of authority" need to be "alleviated"? I'm surprised. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:20, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Every job on wiki, not matter how big or small, brings the risk of improper accusations. I've been accused of some things I find quite offensive, including anti-Semitism, anti-Catholicism, anti-<fill in the blank>, and that's just because I participated in a discussion. Having decision-making power by definition will open you up to more, equally spurious and likely equally offensive, accusations. Sandy, I think it is quite clear from the responses on WT:FAC that you do have the support of the broad community. I am unable at the moment to figure out what Awadewit is thinking but it seems very clear that the rest of the FAC community is likewise confused. We think you are doing a terrific job, but in a job like this you can't please everyone all of the time. Don't let one editor who acted very uncharacteristically for her make you lose faith in everyone else. Karanacs (talk) 18:28, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

I have no doubt that the accusation upset you, particularly coming from Awadewit. However, I have the sense that nuttier editors have accused you of wackier things. Reading some of the rather uninformed comments when the ANI page has something to say about FAs or the main page article, makes it seem as if very few Wikipedians are intimate with the details of how FAC works, and I know virtually no one outside of Wikipedia has any clue about article assessment, right down to stubs. I understand that trust between FAC editors and you is a significant component of your job. So far, it has worked well in my favor for the articles I've brought forth—and it has appeared to work for the system as a whole. If I was not an active participant at FAC, however, and I did not know you, and I visited as an outsider wanting to know how main page articles appear where tens of thousands of people can read them and be influenced by them...this is why clarity should be precise.

I know you can't really help taking it personally, but I think what you have to do is divorce the job you do from the job description. Wikipedia has been such hot shit so fast and now for so long, and has the potential to form more of public opinion, that it is a situation that is begging to be dragged down by baseless accusations from strangers. I know you'll take care of FACs, and I know you'll do the best job you can, but I don't know how that can be portrayed as an infallible system. If I didn't know you, I wouldn't believe it. I'm not confused about the fact that I trust you, like you, have enjoyed interacting with you, and have enjoyed the FAC process (except for the times I almost threw my laptop out the window), but sites like WikiReview, the growing number of blocked users, vandals, and dissatisfied retired editors, and the increasing press Wikipedia gets indicates that scrutiny about the FAC process may be coming. Providing skeptics as close to a formula, rubric, or description of your process (which also may not seem infallible) as you can makes it seem less like you do what you want is the explanation. --Moni3 (talk) 19:14, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

hello lovely

If you get a chance in the next day or so, would you mind skimming over Whitman-Walker Clinic and telling me how far you think it has before it could be a GA? Muchas gracias mi amiga lesbiana. APK like a lollipop 02:52, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I'll take a look at it this weekend. I'm about to hide from the carnage of my article appearing on the main page... I think I'm going to log out and bury my computer. --Moni3 (talk) 02:59, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Which article? I'll watchlist it so you can hide. APK like a lollipop 03:01, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

The, err, main page article today, darlin'. To Kill a Mockingbird. --Moni3 (talk) 03:06, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I blame the blonde highlights I got 2 weeks ago. APK like a lollipop 03:07, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Newsletter bit

Benjiboi is a a bit of a WikiFaerie, a WikiGnome and also a member of the Article Rescue Squadron in addition to being a LGBT project member. A few of Benjiboi's favorite links for making the wikiverse more fab are:

1. Manual of style, a must for anyone redecorating an article.
2. Reliable sources in content review processes, a wonderful and fully linked essay about sourcing and why we need more and better sources.
3. Google scholar, which also searches Google books, is a great help in finding reliable sources.

Hope this works! Banjeboi 03:22, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Moni, I posted a long response. Feel free to edit and cut mercilessly. I deliberately included a lot so you could chose what works. See here: User:Becksguy/Temp — Becksguy (talk) 03:42, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Please revisit a FAC

I'd be grateful if you could revisit Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Jack the Ripper royal conspiracy theories, and either strike or confirm your objection. Thanks. DrKiernan (talk) 11:06, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

TFA and ETC

Hey there.. Congrats on the TFA! I hope it's not been too stressful with vandalism etc. I forgot to bring my email login info on my trip, so I haven't been able to read any messages while we've been away. Hopefully you still have the cell number I provided earlier; I hope the plan we discussed still works for you? Gimme a ring on Saturday afternoon and we can nail down specifics. Cheers! – Scartol • Tok 16:44, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Hope you guys had fun yesterday; I was for the most part stuck in Palatka, being held hostage by the boyfriend's extended family. Fuuun. Oh, and congrats on your newest FA! Very impressive and admirable work. María (habla conmigo) 12:29, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

We did and we missed you. What a bummer, but still. Palatka. I don't think I've ever seen so many neo-Confederate displays in Florida as I have there. Since it's an absolute must to get to St. Augustine through Palatka I am unfortunately more intimate with the town than my comfort allows. Perhaps in one of our treks to Jacksonville (some of my family lives there) we will have the opportunity to meet with you. We recently went to Guana Park on Memorial Day via Ponte Vedra, and my partner and I have been trying to get to Little Talbot Island for a few months now. Best beach in Florida (don't tell). --Moni3 (talk) 12:48, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Little Talbot is fantastic, I agree: one of NE Florida's best kept secrets and the best spot for a picnic. I also love Fernandina, especially Amelia Island, although parts of it are too touristy. Palatka, on the other hand, is unfortunately unavoidable for me. My love was born and raised there, and every time we visit and I'm forced to smell that horrible sulfur stench, I have to ask myself how the hell he turned out the way he did (i.e. atheist-liberal-nerd, just the way I like them). Whatever Kool-Aid they're drinking down there in Smellatka, he didn't partake. We'll definitely have to meet up sometime, though, it would be a shame not to. María (habla conmigo) 13:20, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: American alligator information in Restoration of the Everglades

It's from the main American Alligator article, but it's not actually sourced there. I've found a source from the FWS website (and put it in the article). Thanks for pointing it out. 02:41, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

God, when do we let the bastards get us down?

lord, what a tempest in a teapot. Jeffpw (talk) 19:16, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Everything is a tempest if you let it be. The trick is choosing what the mountain is and what the molehill is not. And being gentle with those whose mountains you don't see, while stepping lightly around those who can't see anything else. --Moni3 (talk) 19:22, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

British librarians

Hi,

I've no objection to removing 'British' from 'British librarians' from the lead if there is some other qualifier. The phrase "...librarians ranked the book ahead of the Bible" begs the question: What librarians? I think the term "librarians" needs explanation because otherwise it's vague and without context, meaning it's pretty meaningless. If you prefer "an association of librarians" or something then that would of course be fine. Tempshill (talk) 19:58, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Co-noms

Moni, based on current discussions at WT:FAC that came from discussions at Uriel Sebree (which I hope will be copied over to WT:FAC), I thank you kindly for the offer but I won't accept a co-nom, probably ever, since my work will revolve around copyediting and working on style guidelines. I will continue to encourage people to do whatever it takes to get articles copyedited before they show up at FAC, which might involve bronze stars, I don't know. - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 03:46, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

MD

Hi, I just made another adjustment to the article in the Syle section, which I expect to be noncontroversial, but in a FA I guess one needs to be extra careful with even the most minor changes. I was tempted to remove the entire sentence before it, the one that describes brunette Camilla kissing blonde Camilla (from the dream). For one thing I don't see how this is an example of the Director's method of illusion, like the way Mr. Roque's head was made to look abnormally small, or the way Carol (the brunette singer) appeared to be alone at first. Another thing, we never really find out what Melissa George's character's name was in "real life", but we know it wasn't "Camilla Rhodes", that was just her name in the dream. So even if that sentence is kept in, I don't think Melissa George's character should also be referred as "Camilla". "Camilla leans over to kiss Camilla" is not just confusing but also incorrect, imho. For An Angel (talk) 21:13, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

If we remove it then I think it could be substituted with something about the Club Silencio scene where Rebekah Del Rio appears to be singing, but when she collapses we find out it was a tape the whole time. IMO, we are fooled not only because her performance is so powerful, but because the director planted clues. 1) We assume that because the magician has left that the "magic act" is over. 2) "Cookie" (or is that a different character played by the same actor?) comes out and introduces Rebekah Del Rio from a microphone that we find out later was just a prop. 3) We also hear the singer tap on the microphone before she begins leading us to believe the sound we hear will be coming from her. For An Angel (talk) 21:13, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Different/another - I don't have a problem with (but neither do I think they should have been changed). The examples of illusion were provided by the sources, not by me. I thought the most general interpretation of the film - that Betty is Diane's dream, does not make sense. I don't believe that. What I do believe I was unable to put in the article because it would be original research. I had to represent the body of literature written about the film evenly. --Moni3 (talk) 22:57, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

But "In different example of illusion" doesn't even make grammatical sense. Though you can change it back if you want. I also never said you should put what you believe in the article. It appeared that only the mentions of the size of Mr. Roque's head and the singer appearing to be alone at first were referenced. It wasn't clear which reference mentions the two "Camilla"'s kissing scene as an example of the directors method of illusion. Which reference did that come from? For An Angel (talk) 14:32, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

You're going to make me watch the film again, because I recall that the photo shown in the boardroom meeting had Melissa George's face with "Camilla Rhodes" underneath. Though, clearly, the mind can play tricks. Geometry guy and I had a few rounds of what is accurate/what is not. I'll also check my references for the illusion of the two Camillas. --Moni3 (talk) 14:46, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

No, you're right, that was Melissa George's face in the photo and it did say "Camilla Rhodes" underneath it. Melissa George's character was also called Camilla Rhodes when she showed up to the audition to sing the song. My point was that the scene where Laura Elena Harring and Melissa George kiss at the dinner party was not an example of the director's "method of illusion" and I was wondering which reference said that. Also, I pointed out that we never got to know what Melissa George's name was outside of the "dream", ie. at the dinner party. Laura Elena Harring's character was called "Camilla Rhodes" at the end of the movie and Melissa George's character was called "Camillia Rhodes" in the beginning. The fact that those two actresses played a character with the same name isn't any more of an example of the director's method of illusion than the fact that both Naomi Watts and Melissa Crider (the waitress) both played characters named Betty & Diane. It just means that Diane changed some people's names in her dream. For An Angel (talk) 18:28, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Wow. I was mad obsessed with this film, I tell you. Just visiting the article and tweaking the part I just did reminded me of that. What a fun trip that was. Ok. Anyways. I checked my source again and altered the example of illusion per the source's description. The article is all about illusion, and lists multiple examples. I wanted to include three types of examples: physical (Mr. Roque's head), mental (Diane's paranoia), and cinematic (the camera and the sound stage). --Moni3 (talk) 01:35, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

FAC

LOL! Relax, don't have a heart attack. Realist2 and I often joke about taking articles to FAC. He was referring to Janet Jackson, which is close to meeting the criteria. I haven't even taken Gay icon to GAC, so I wouldn't dream of taking it to FAC at this point. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 01:34, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I AM NOT A SPAZ!!! Heheh ok. Maybe a little. I was going to your talk page to offer to copy edit it and review it before FAC, til I saw Realist2's comment. So, now that the fire alarm is over, hit me up when you think you're ready and I'll take out the superclaws. --Moni3 (talk) 01:37, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

He he, sorry. I meant that I'm taking Michael Jackson to FA and I was wondering if bookkeeper was ready to take lil' sis' Janet. :-)— Realist² (Speak) 01:41, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Archived peer review

Everglades's peer review was mysteriously archived. I left a message on PeerReviewBot's talk page asking him to unarchive it. Until that happens, I'm going to keep going as though the review were still open. Sorry I haven't helped out in a few days, I've been busy with my tiny girlfriend's birthday and stuff. Anywho, hopefully we'll be able to wrap it up soon since there's just the Restoration section remaining. --Cryptic C62 · Talk 01:46, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Everglades at GAN

I have been reading the article at GAN. It seems to me to be well above GA standard, and will clearly be an FAC soon. I'll do the GA review, but rather than just passing it, I'll comment from a FAC perspective - although this won't affect the GA outcome. However, the length of the article means the review process will take a while, so bear with me. Brianboulton (talk) 16:29, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

The stricter the better. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. --Moni3 (talk) 16:37, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Ack! I need to hurry and finish my copyedit then. I've been dealing with an incredibly depressing matter at WP:RFA; I'll finish my post there and then get right back to Everglades. - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 16:54, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Dude, no stress. Just float along at two feet per minute. It's the Everglades. It'll get there, or get sucked into the rock and wait it out another year. Whatever. --Moni3 (talk) 17:09, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

You are a very calming influence. - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 17:23, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Don't "tweak" your comments. They point me to things I should read. --Moni3 (talk) 17:48, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry to intrude, but perhaps Dan would leave me a note when he's finished copyediting? Brianboulton (talk) 23:12, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Sure thing, Brian. - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 23:55, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm almost done too... --Cryptic C62 · Talk 14:12, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

NAMBLA

the point of my note was to point out the fact that personal feeling towards the group are irrelevant for the purpose of tagging it, not to encourage further discussion. It was directed towards anyone who might throw in, or has thrown in an "oppose" simple because of WP:IDONTLIKEIT. I just find it annoying we have to come to a consensus to 1) support the tag and then 2) prevent it from being removed. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 11:25, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Just for the record, John is on the national ACLU board, and consensus there is that NAMBLA doesn't and never did exist; it was a creation of the FBI to help them track down pedophiles. Pedophilia is, of course, a serious problem, but NAMBLA is and always has been part tragedy and part fodder for late-nite comedians. - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 12:50, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia

Never ceases to shock and appall me, though is shouldn't, I suppose. To quote Jenny Holzer: "Abuse of power comes as no surprise". Jeffpw (talk) 20:59, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. Call me Debbie Downer, but most of what we construct in life (except for Styrofoam) are sandcastles. Wikipedia just illustrates the point rather painfully sometimes. Here comes another wave. --Moni3 (talk) 21:01, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Debbie Debbie Debbie! Banjeboi 23:01, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

"Oh, the humanity!!!!!" Jeffpw (talk) 16:01, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Barnstar for you!

		The Anti-Flame Barnstar
		Moni3, for your diplomatic and clear-headed advice on several controversial subjects including witty comments, guidance on policies and a unique prod to inspire reflection I hereby award you this anti-flaming barnstar. Please note: I still consider you a flamer in the best possible ways. Banjeboi 00:52, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

YAY! Flaming in all the best ways!! Thank ye, darlin'. I shall put it on my wall and dust it frequently. --Moni3 (talk) 00:58, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Got time ? (Jeff, too)

Moni, (and Jeff, if you're reading here, although I did't want to trouble you) ... got time to delve into murky territory and help cut through some issues? I need to understand if there is any basis for the parallels being drawn in the discussion at Talk:Autism rights movement#Merge proposal for Autism Awareness Campaign UK, or if the whole thing is just a POV and POV fork mess. I suspect that the difference may come down to the lack of reliable sources in autism, while there are plenty of sources in naming issues and disputes on gay rights; is there a problem in the argument I'm making? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:16, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

How did you know my wiki-education on POV forks just increased substantially within the past couple of days? I'll take a look at it. --Moni3 (talk) 16:27, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

I suspect, also, the argument being made on that talk page under "Rename" is another straw man; Gay rights was renamed to LGBT for entirely different reasons than the argument made there. There are several issues muddying the water in that discussion, and I think most of them are straw man. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:44, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

The merge proposal is entirely logical, and I stated so on the talk page. Sandy, you could never trouble me. Not after all you've done for me through they years. Jeffpw (talk) 16:46, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Jeff :-) Here's where I'm tangled up. The arguments on that page seem to espouse some sort of "definition" or "ownership" of the term, autism rights movement, and then a comparison to the term, gay rights movement. Well, aren't these terms based on reliable sources? And is there a source-based reason to believe that autism rights movement espouses one kind of rights (which is apparently having to do with curebies, a term that non-curebies use derogatorily) as opposed to overall rights for people with autism? Is there a parallel here with gay rights as being made on that page? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:53, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Congrats

Congrats on the latest one down, now is the mother article ready for the snake pit? Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:12, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Ha. Thanks. It's at GAN right now and being copy edited and reviewed before the snake pit. Seriously - thanks for all your help with these. It's been a lot of work and you and many other editors made it a lot easier. --Moni3 (talk) 02:31, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Could you slow down, please, or something. You're making the rest of us look lazy and stupid. --JayHenry (talk) 02:42, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm so intimidated I don't even know how to punctuate questions as can be seen directly above. --JayHenry (talk) 02:46, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Hahah. Don't worry. After these, I have to start from scratch on another article. I haven't even checked the books out of the library yet (all my Everglades ones are overdue!) --Moni3 (talk) 02:57, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

It's funny what it has spawned - after Guettarda got Ficus aurea up, we've both been polishing up quite a few fig species, there are only 750 or so of them... :) Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:39, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Gratz from me too...just one left! I read over Tony's comments on Geography and agreed with them; that will help with Everglades. - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 13:11, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Congrats from me, as well. I suspect that once the last one gets the bronze star, you're going for an FT? Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 13:28, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks and right back at ya!

Thanks for the lovely (and limited edition) barnstar and for all of your work on these articles - I assume (as was noted above) these will be a Featured Topic some day? I also hardly think it fair that the main author of all these articles does not have an Everglades Barnstar, so being bold, here's one for you, with my heartfelt thanks for all of your work here. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 15:51, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Everglades Barnstar

		The Everglades Barnstar
		"It's curious that the ignorance about the Everglades has persisted all these years"—Marjory Stoneman Douglas, 1987. Thank you, Moni3, for doing the vast majority of the work in our small wiki-corner to right that wrong. Your work on this endeavor was invaluable, and the encylcopedia is better for it. Please accept this token of my gratitude and affection, which is given with respect and admiration. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 15:51, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, good call, Ruhr! Thanks for the 'glades 'star, Moni.. Lemme know when you're ready to start working on the Ichetucknee River! – Scartol • Tok 14:43, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Would love to! When my brain stops melting from working on the Everglades... I did, however, load an image of the large spring boil at the state park in that article. --Moni3 (talk) 14:49, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Wow, that's a gorgeous shot. Your images seem to get more and more lovely.. Oh, and congrats on the G&E Everglades FA! – Scartol • Tok 17:11, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

All that agitation

Moni3, thanks for keeping an eye on things, and for your good advice and mellow presence. It is and will be a great help in wading through all the rabid nonsense. Haiduc (talk) 20:26, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

You have indeed chosen a contentious area of history to focus on. Patience and fortitude. Though I can imagine you get riled up in the extreme (as would I if a concerted effort arose to delete what I have worked on), keep a cool head and do only what needs to be done for the article. I imagine much of the protest about the article comes from not knowing much about it. Others, however, may be covering wounds from old pains that are too closely associated with the topic to be able to discriminate. Wikibreaks are better than getting blocked for incivility. It's ok to say, "Fuck it. Let's go bowling." (or whatever). --Moni3 (talk) 20:34, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Seconding the kudos. I could rabbit on about why your input has been valued, but I'll be brief for a change: Thank you. - brenneman 00:33, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I have just finished reading the talk page over there, and all I can say is that the encyclopedia is in good hands with you, Moni. Well, I already knew that, given the level of scholarship and excellent writing in the articles you've led to FA status, but a special bouquet in this case. Risker (talk) 00:43, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks to both Brenneman and Risker. --Moni3 (talk) 01:27, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Everglades update?

I have now returned from Wikimania - what do you need from the FA-Team on Everglades? Awadewit (talk) 11:28, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Brianboulton passed Everglades as a GA almost by default, but he, Dank55, and I are working on how to condense it to improve its readability. Brian has issues particularly with the History section, so I'm editing 2 different versions: one cut by 50% and one cut by 10%. I should have those ready within a day or so for them to judge. Brian put his comments in the transcluded GA review on the talk page of the article. Though it's passed, Dank55 and I are still working on addressing all the points. --Moni3 (talk) 12:20, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Does that mean I should stop posting comments on the peer review? It doesn't seem like you've really been paying attention to them anyway, so I might as well just wait until you've settled on a shorter version of the article. --Cryptic C62 · Talk 21:22, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Hold off for now until we figure out how much (if anything) will be cut. Thank you, Cryptic. --Moni3 (talk) 01:26, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Cool beans. Just let me know (here, my talk, the peer review page) when you want me to continue. --Cryptic C62 · Talk 10:27, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

insomnia

You're adorable when you lack sleep. :) The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 06:16, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Eeehhhhehe. Not so adorable when I wake up the next morning. Grr. Though that scene is funny regardless of how much sleep I got. Point of law...kee kee. --Moni3 (talk) 13:12, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

wikibreaking except for Angie Dickinson

As you may have seen from the various discussion pages (including ANI and AN) the level of stress here is just too much for me to deal with. I'll just try to improve an article about a beautiful babe--something that we all, as wikipedians--and regardless of gender or sexuaal persuasion--can agree on. Jeffpw (talk) 19:08, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Righteous. Don't forget her stellar performance in Undressed to Kill. Seeing that when I was younger no doubt had something to do with why we're in the same wikiproject. Let's blame Angie. --Moni3 (talk) 19:12, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Damn she was hot in that flick! I've loved her since The Chase, but her best role was really Big Bad Mama. Jeffpw (talk) 19:24, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Please check your e-mail, Moni. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:04, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Stop the presses

I just scanned the "in the works" version of the newsletter, and request that you delete any mention of Miss Julie. She is dead, and I never believed that Lazarus story. edted to add; I experienced a moment of boldness and removed the content myself. Jeffpw (talk) 23:14, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Copy edit request

Hi Moni3 I was wondering if you could help me with a copy edit of the Michael Jackson article, clean up any pro's problems. Although a lot of people have voted to support the article there are some who still have minor concerns. Would you be interested? It could seal the deal for the article passing. — Realist² (Speak) 02:12, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

There are actually a few FAs I need to review. Once my brain solidifies from the gelatinous form it has recently taken, I hope to be able to review MJ et al. (Within the next several days.) --Moni3 (talk) 02:17, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Lol, I know that feeling, this review process has been draining. — Realist² (Speak) 02:31, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

OK, I have done or replied/asked questions about all your current points. Hopefully its closer to how you want to see the article anyway. — Realist² (Speak) 20:18, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi Moni3, feel free to carry on with your review when your ready, sorry if I have put you off track, things got a little wild but I'm ready to continue now. I agree with many of your ideas and have definitely tried to bring more of the human side of Jackson back in. To be honest I never thought people would be interested in all that, but after reading through it now, after implementing many of your suggestions, it's a lot richer. — Realist² (Speak) 23:09, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Everglades

I've looked over your two reduced History sections. I have to go away until Monday & can't give it detailed attention till then. What I will say is that the "50%" cut looks more like 75 or 80% to me, which is a degree of surgery far beyond what I had anticipated. I hate seeing good work wasted - remember, my original suggestion was split rather than cut - and my initial feeling is that the second History version has been chopped by far too much. I'll try and give a more considered opinion after the weekend, as soon as I get back. Brianboulton (talk) 00:51, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok. Think on it. I've asked a few others what they think, keeping in mind that some may not think that cutting anything is necessary. Enjoy your weekend!--Moni3 (talk) 00:55, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Right, I'm back, a day early. This is what I think. Your "10% cut" version of the History section is still very comprehensive. Reading through it, I didn't at all get the impression that I was reading something which had been cut down, yet an approximate word count shows that you have trimmed the section by about 750 words, i.e. by 16-17% of its original length. Skilfully done. This cut (provided it's not compensated by an addition elsewhere) reduces the overall word count to within the 6,000 to 10,000 range that is mentioned in WP:Article size, and this I believe may be psychologically important, when the article is presented at FAC. The "50% cut" version, which as I remarked before looks more like an 80% cut, could function as a sort of stub in the main article if you did decide to split off History into a separate article, but except in those circumstances I wouldn't recommend a cut of this severity. So, what I am saying is that I recommend you consider your first cut version as a good compromise between keeping a full History section and keeping the wordcount within recommended bounds. Other opinions may differ, and you must be the judge. Brianboulton (talk) 15:27, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the opinion. Let me read through it once more and make a decision here...If Dank55 is lurking, you can put your 2 cents in as well. --Moni3 (talk) 12:16, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Moni, it might be worth taking into account comments currently being made at FAC on Ukraine, re the length of the History section. Brianboulton (talk) 18:46, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

PHOTOS

Hi Moni, I only learned how to use a computer a few years ago. Everything is new. Here is the whole story: Someone created a page for Derek Trucks, who is the slide guitarist in the Allman Brothers Band, which normally would be fine. However, Derek ALSO formed a Derek Trucks Band, (when he was 15!) and the creators of his page stuffed all of that on his page, too. Look!! [1] Amazing.

I want to separate the Derek Trucks page from the Derek Trucks Band now, while separation would be easier. I also have noticed that the very best GA articles have more than one photo most of the time. My favorite pic that was uploaded to Wikimedia (the 5th one) of Derek playing with the slide on his finger, which is what he's known for! It's also in beautiful color and clear. He's been touring with the Allman Bros since he was 12-14 after Duane Allman died, was listed in the 100 greatest guitarists at age 21 (ranked #81) in 2004.

Will you help me to move the Derek Trucks Band info on his page to a new page of it's own? There's plenty of photos now to choose from and trust me, I looked hard on Flickr to find someone with decent photos. I feel we're looking a gift horse in the eye! --leahtwosaints (talk) 22:26, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Mmm ok. First, when you click on Derek Trucks Band, it redirects to Derek Trucks. Right below the article title are the words "(Redirected from Derek Trucks Band)". Click on Derek Trucks Band after Redirected. It has an arrow and a link back to Derek Trucks. Edit that page, taking out #REDIRECT and replace it with any information about Derek Trucks Band you wish. Save that.

This issue about the images now is different. Are they photos you took? I don't think any image on Flickr is available to use, but I've never used any Flickr photos. --Moni3 (talk) 22:40, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

No, I didn't take the photos. However, a friend actually uploaded the photos of Derek Trucks on purpose to Wikimedia with explicit consent for us to use them on Wikipedia, and I have NEVER uploaded a photo of any kind from anyplace to a Wiki anything! That's why I'm asking for help just to get this one spectacular photo of Trucks, showing him playing with his famous (quite hard to see) clear slide. Will you help me just upload the photo to the Derek Trucks page??? I really want to do this now, in particular, b/c I begged my friend to upload that picture for me...  :( What to do??? --leahtwosaints (talk) 21:01, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

OK, it's driven me crazy it was so simple, and yes, this photo is so certifiably "acceptable" it's insane. HOW do I shrink this pic?: Image:Derek Trucks.res.xas.jpg And I SWEAR, this will be the end of this! --leahtwosaints (talk) 00:45, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

HI

Hi Moni3, I know you are a busy person here on Wiki, but I plan on nominating SummerSlam (2003) for FAC, but before I can do that, I would like to get a copyedit on the article. Ealdgyth (talk · contribs) recommended me to you. So if you have time and are not busy, may you copyedit it? Thank You.--S_RX 23:32, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi, SRX. Thank you for the request. In return, can I ask a question? I approach all of my FAs as a way to express my passion for a topic. I have never copy edited a wrestling article, and please excuse me for coming off as elitist. It is not my intention to do so. However, I honestly do not understand the fascination with wrestling. It appears to be widespread bordering on a phenomenon, even here at Wikipedia. Surely you must know the views of it as entertainment rather than sport. From your individual view, what is your interest in this subject? If I understand yours, I may be able to approach the article from a different view. (By the way, I often ask people about their experiences that are completely foreign to me, including an interrogation session with a stripper, a car salesman on the appeal of NASCAR, and a naked model.) --Moni3 (talk) 23:47, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Of course. WP:PW is often times seen as a joke because why would a project exist about a type of entertainment. You are not the first person to say that you do not understand or appreciate professional wrestling, this is because they are written with jargon like Suplex, Sharpshooter, Tombstone Piledriver, belly-to-belly suplex. This article however is written completely out of universe in a way that all English speakers and readers unaware of the subject can understand. My view of this subject is "Entertainment" and not a sport, which is why it's called sports entertainment. So I'm guessing you can't copyedit it? P.S. I know what it is like to review subjects I have no idea about. I review Good article nominations and Featured List Candidates of all subjects, some of which I do not understand, so I know where you are coming from.--S_RX 00:48, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

I am not averse to copy editing the article, but I would like to know, personally, why you choose to write about it. Without your connection to the article, I have none. --Moni3 (talk) 01:01, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, I am very connected with the article because I have grown up watching sports entertainment, especially World Wrestling Entertainment since I was in my childhood. I've always known about every aspect of professional wrestling, I have experience and knowledge of everything written in the article, from the wrestlers to the moves they perform. I also wrote the article because I wanted to write the first out of universe professional wrestling article, as many other PPV articles failed their FAC's because of too much jargon, no reliable sources, and being written completely in-universe. S_RX 01:29, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok. Give me a couple days. Do you want it on the talk page of the article or is there an open peer review? --Moni3 (talk) 01:41, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

There is an open peer review. Thanks.--S_RX 17:20, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

July Newsletter

Hi Moni

I just found the draft newsletter. I think you have far too much on me, and not enough on Benji, as Benji is far too modest. The amount of work done by Benji just overwhelms me. For the latest example, look here. Here is the article when it was nominated for AfD (32 words), and here is the article now (707 words). This is not the only time Benji has done this, and he does it without complaint or self promotion. Please balance the profiles better by cutting more from me and adding to Benji. Check his barnstars. It's only fair. Thanks. — Becksguy (talk) 02:13, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

OK, stop.(cue modest blush and giggle) I appreciate it and all but I already get too much attention. And we don't have to cut or add it's just a newsletter and Moni3 is pimping us out so others will be more willing to see their names on the marquee. Personally I'd like to see the newsletter go out so if you would like more items or want help I'm happy to lend a hand. You probably will need to proofread anything I submit. I'm still thinking about that bot idea and we have the project banner drama as well. Plus we should bribe Miss Julie to offer a quote or something. Banjeboi 05:10, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

I put it at newsletter bot 2 or 3 days ago. I don't think that worked...--Moni3 (talk) 12:05, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Do you want help sorting it out? Banjeboi 23:03, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes. I've been sick and remain so. I'm not thinking clearly. Thank you. --Moni3 (talk) 12:19, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

In process, for what it's worth I'm always sick so empathize completely. Not sure where it should archive once it's gone out but at least we'll have the first part done. Banjeboi 12:46, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

This newsletter is fantastic, thankyou for putting it together. :) Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 13:40, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Crossposted from my talkpage

<--To Moni, I need to rephrase something. When I said "other than disparagment", I did not mean Wikipedia disparaging a BLP by adding a tag. I meant the BLP's political opponents attempting to disparage him in the eyes of his (presumably conservative) support base/voters. I wholeheartedly agree that such an "accusation" should not be "disparaging", but it is, unfortunately, disparaging to a large percentage of the American population. Because its a BLP, and only because it's a BLP, should we be extra careful and "do no harm". I'll go look at the article and sources, and I'm going to crosspost this on your talk to be sure you see it. My apologies if anything I'm typing is being misread, I sincerely am not trying to sound offensive, but my keyboard is having difficulty expressing my tone and finding the right way to say what I'm trying to say. Keeper ǀ 76 14:19, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Florida request

So, I need the title page from the 1832 Winter's Wreath for Proserpine (play). Apparently, it is at Florida State University. Are you near there? Could you get a scan? I would be so very grateful! Awadewit (talk) 16:45, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

A promising prospect is on a list of options I emailed to you. Let me know which one would be best. --Moni3 (talk) 17:04, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

LGBT WikiProject Newsletter (July 2008)

• Newsletter delivery by xenobot 13:12, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Not to be a glory hog, but I wanted to point our I created the Janet Jackson as gay icon article and was responsible for nominating and getting it promoted to GA. I am, after all, Wikipedia's Janet Fanatic. :) The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 13:42, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, Bookkeeper. I'll make that correction in August's newsletter. Rock on, though, for the GA. Sweet. --Moni3 (talk) 13:51, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Not a problem. Speaking of Janet, would you mind contributing to the article's current peer review? Wikipedia:Peer review/Janet Jackson/archive1. Its an LGBT article too, as such it would be a positive addition to the FA list. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 14:21, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Please consider recruiting AgnosticPreacherKid to help contribute, they had previously expressed interest. The archive link for the newsletter is Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies/Newsletter archives/2008 7. Banjeboi 14:19, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Welcome wagon

Is the welcome wagon happening? Is Miss Julie selling Avon on the side? inquiring minds want to know! Banjeboi 14:19, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Umm. I don't know. I don't mean to take over the newsletter. It's just in my sandbox because I'm whimsical. Anyone can contribute to it. I should make that clear and stuff... I don't feel well, so I think I'm going to fingerpaint with mustard and vegemite. Ugh. --Moni3 (talk) 14:49, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

My hunch is that you can play den Mom and send up a flare in a week or so and crack whips as needed. I'm going to focus next on bots as I'm convinced our tags are being removed and articles deleted and we have no idea it's going on. I'll look into the welcome wagon with Miss Julie. Banjeboi 15:03, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Members quilt

If you need a crafty project for next month's newsletter ... we have that nifty members quilt - which even I need to do. Banjeboi 14:28, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

I've had my coffee today, and some happy pills

1. Hi Moni. First item on my agenda is an apology to you. I have not been able to type correctly to you in response to your posts, and I fear that I've done nothing but stir up negative feelings. I hope you are not angry, and if you are, I would like to atone for adding to your Wiki-stress. I have no experience with the LGBT project or the groups "parameters" for inclusion of the project tag, nor do I presume to even have a clue as to where it can/should go. My error was that I was being presumptive and sheepish because Crist's article is a BLP, and my confusion led to you having to type things that I have no doubt that you've had to type many times before. (Same issue/different venue). Sincere apologies.
2. Ok, second item on my agenda. I don't want you, or anyone else, in WP:LGBT, to have to deal with such stress over what really should not be stressful or controversial. From reading your posts, (on my talk mostly but also Talk:Crist), it seems that the WikiProject is exasperated, for lack of a better word, because they are being "roadblocked" so to speak over the same issues, over and over again. My yoke on-wiki, as a bad writer that by some fluke got +sysop status (it was winter, most sane Wikipedians were offline I suspect), is to make this place enjoyable for the writers. Why? So they stay. And write. Without obstacles. I used to think my "yoke" was to get the content writers admin status, but I no longer send good editors into that hellish place called RfA with nominations. I've seen too many good good writers get turned off completely from Wiki because some schmuck has the nerve to dig up a 6-month old, one-off diff where they disagreed on something, and paraded it out with ALLCAPS on some poor soul's RfA, only to see it followed by several "Oppose per ________" 's. You are a writer, you are being unduly and unfairly stressed, and I want to help alleviate that. And since I can't fit these fun little pills I have through my fiber optic cable, I will have to help by typing more.
3. I spent most of yesterday evening/night not sleeping, trying to figure out the key problem here. I've decided that it really has nothing to do with Crist. If the same issue comes up over and over again, on different articles, simply by adding a talkpage tag, then the problem isn't the article, it's the tag. Now, I don't mean that exactly how it sounds, please sit back down :-). I mean only that the WP:LGBT project needs to take the time to set clear (or clearer?) parameters on what gets tagged, and what doesn't. Other WikiProjects have done this, and granted, they aren't "perceived" as being controversial, and neither should the LGBT tag. I wholeheartedly believe it shouldn't. It is a highly active, highly valuable, and highly accurate WikiProject, with only good intentions towards a factual, reliable encyclopedia. Only! And for one reason or another, it's gotten a bad rap? No, "rap" is not the word. It really appears to be borderline phobic. And that is simply not acceptable, and worth fighting against.
4. I'm not sure why I'm numbering this all, perhaps out of hopes that you'll continue reading my ramblings in an easy-to-read format?
5. If you are up to it, I'd like to join the WikiProject. As a member, I can help determine exacting, clear, and most importantly, BOLD standards for inclusion in the project so that you, and other editors, don't have to be stressed about adding it to talkpages. You shouldn't have to deal with that level of discouragement. If a tag is added, with an edit summary with a blue link (instead of the red one) that says This page has been added to WP:LGBT per its inclusion criteria, I think (hope!) many of the repetitive, mind-numbing, and aggravating conversations that you and others have had to be distracted by would end.
6. Ok, those are my ramblings. Your thoughts on this are most anticipated, for the benefit of Wikipedia and its editors. Cheers, Keeper ǀ 76 15:47, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Keeper. Thanks very much for that long post. I read it all. What's odd is that for two days I was really upset about this. I don't get upset about this kind of stuff. I take it as par for the course having been in LGBT issues since 1991 (and some experiences being really unpleasant), but this last discussion on Crist had me really angry. I went home yesterday just fuming about it but I was really sleepy, too. So I laid down to take a nap, and similar to your sleepless night of thought, I did sleep, but it was really weird and fevered. When I woke up I was sick, but no longer angry. So I think part of my anger came from whatever has been festering physically inside me. Oddness...

That said, I still think it's messed up, but I can approach it today more clearly than I did yesterday. I thought of establishing an explanation for the LGBT template that explains the reasons why articles are tagged, and including the reason that WP:LGBT is interested in controlling rumors about a public figure's sexual orientation to be used as political leverage—which is why Crist was tagged in the first place.

However, somewhere in policy, it must be made clear that tagging an article talk page does not violate WP:BLP. Within the next couple of days, I can write the text for the template so WP:LGBT can discuss it (which, by the way, anyone may join). Stress in this wikiproject seems to claim more editors than other projects. A few have left the project to edit other types of articles, and a few have left WP altogether. A guide on avoiding WikiStress might also be worth writing. That might be specific to WP:LGBT and made more general for other Wikipedians.

So, I look forward to working with you on this. I apologize if I came off as terse or rude on your page. I hope you sleep better tonight. --Moni3 (talk) 16:05, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

What a breath of fresh air your response is! I feel so much better about all this, and you have absolutely no reason to apologize to me. I'm looking forward to working with you on this! Let me know where you set up an inclusion guideline draft, I'll jump in! Keeper ǀ 76 16:32, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

So, I'm a snooper perhaps, but I just poked around on your userpage to get an idea of who you are, besides an editor. I found this essay to be one of the most profoundly true and accurate depictions of human nature, and Wikipedia that I've seen. Brilliant prose. Just sayin. Keeper ǀ 76 19:02, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. =) I replied to your comments in my Sandbox, by the way. --Moni3 (talk) 14:25, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Not bad essay at all - the mood reminds me of a Miyazaki film, where there is a profound antithesis to the good and evil characters elsewhere, they just 'go...' - truly mindblowing eg Howl's Moving Castle (film)....just saw The Darjeeling Limited..Wes Anderson is a true genius..again..similar sort of flow and an amazing sense of being...sorry, just using films as an analogy here...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 15:23, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

For the art alone, but also for the oddness and apparent random insertion of things I just don't get (is probably a cultural gap), Miyazaki's Spirited Away is one of my favorite films.--Moni3 (talk) 15:45, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

(slaps hand on forehead)..I forgot the nature one - Princess Mononoke - that one was sublime...agree about Spirited Away...I don't think it is just a cultural gap (?) many have trouble following some of the abstractions. Heck, I figured after David Lynch you'd have no problem with random insertion of things ..(now that is a damn fine cup of coffee!) - 10 points for where that's from :)) Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:32, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

I have no problem at all with that random insertion. In fact, while watching the latter part of the film, while Chohiro, the tiny (hippo, was it?), and that black bug thing with the beak take that long, lonely ghost train ride to see Zaneba, and the bug thing starts hopping and squeaking plus the arrival of the one-handed hopping lantern, I turned to my partner and said, "Why on earth are not stoned right now? Everything would make so much more sense." --Moni3 (talk) 21:47, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

(outdent) then Pom Poko would have freaked you right out; that one made no sense to me at all all the way through (well it did, but it was just so...weird)...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:41, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

And Now For Something Completely Different

Are you a fan of Monty Python? Me, I'm addicted. Oof! That discussion (I read some of the others it references) sounds thorny if now on the upswing. Lemme know if there's anything I can do aside from getting involved in an edit war on the Crist talk page.

I just stopped by to say that the blockbuster documentary movie about our road trip this summer is online. I'm kicking myself for not having brought the camera to our meetup, but maybe you wouldn't want to be in the YouTube. Still, I could have done some creative video/audio alterations to keep your Samus Aran secret identity under wraps. I thought you might get a kick out of the video in any case – I promise it's more entertaining than the usual home movie. – Scartol • Tok 21:02, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

I enjoy Monty Python, but since I graduated from the 8th grade, I try not to recite their skits ad nauseum. I have to take a peek at your video when I get a chance. Are there excellent shots of the Ichetucknee? --Moni3 (talk) 14:26, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Alas, we didn't bring the camera to the river itself, since we were nervous about getting it wet. But we do have a very accurate recreation of our tubing experience, using computer graphics. =) Hope you like it.. – Scartol • Tok 18:41, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Something really crass...

I mean, one would get a nice award and all....no takers so far :( Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 15:10, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Are you asking who might be interested in taking any of these topics? Let's put aside the fact that, though I do have an apt fondness for Billy Joel because I grew up in the 80s, I really hate that song. ("What else do I have to say"??? I mean, has he said anything but list world events???) Anyways, if that is what you're asking, I would love to do the Little Rock Nine. Their story is riveting. By the way, I think the "heavy metal suicide" is an allusion to the Judas Priest suicide pact, which is mis-linked. And AIDS, sadly, has been de-listed as an FA. Sorry to bum you out on that one. --Moni3 (talk) 15:41, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Ah well, someone can get an award for re-FAing it.. :) Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:39, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Featured topic candidate: The Florida Everglades

Hi! There is a discussion whether "The Florida Everglades" should be a featured topic or not: Wikipedia:Featured topic candidates/The Florida Everglades‎. I would appreciate your comments! ;) Xenus (talk) 16:43, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that has been my goal. However, I'm concerned about the main Everglades article. It is right now at GA status, but since it is the centerpiece, would it pass at GA only? If it requires an FA, I'm working on it. And by working on it, I mean lagging because I just passed through 4 FAs in 4 weeks and I'm really drained. It's a huge article that will take a lot of copy editing, and I'm trying to work up the energy to do it. I've never done a featured topic before so I don't know how it will be received. --Moni3 (talk) 16:52, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations! You made me leave the English Wikipedia! Are you happy now, huh? Xenus (talk) 09:46, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

No, I didn't. I wrote all of those articles. All of them. I read all that information cited and I worked hard to do it, you spent one minute forming that nomination. You're leaving because you're justifiably embarrassed. Good editors screw up, take responsibility for their mistakes, and learn from it. When you decide to become a good editor, you'll stick around. --Moni3 (talk) 14:19, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Meetup

Wikipedia:Meetup/Tampa -- You're invited! Hires an editor (talk) 20:06, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

I saw that, but I was also hoping for a Gainesville meetup. Thanks for the invite, though! It's a weekday and I have to work. Work is stupid. --Moni3 (talk) 20:10, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Hey! There appears to be a few folks that might be interested in a G'ville area meetup. Should we mayhaps try to set one up? Maybe in a couple of months when it gets cooler. Just a thought... :) --Ebyabe (talk) 15:11, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and Mellow Mushroom's gone. :( So maybe Leonardo's? There are numerous other options, though. --Ebyabe (talk) 15:12, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Donald Albury may set up a meeting page per this conversation. I had dinner last night at the Mellow Mushroom. Where did it go? --Moni3 (talk) 15:14, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

The one on University Avenue wasn't there a few weeks ago. It was Pizza Hut or laundromat or something, I can't remember exactly. I didn't know there was another one in town. Or maybe I was hallucinating? :) Oh, and whilst I'm thinking, we definitely need to schedule it NOT during a home game weekend. --Ebyabe (talk) 15:19, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

The University Avenue one was the one we ate at. Maybe you forgot. Or maybe there are two in two different dimensions...--Moni3 (talk) 15:37, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Leads, pizza, etc.

OMG, the above section made me squeak! Although we do have a Shroom here in Jax, I've always preferred the one in your neck of the woods. Less beachy, more collegy; I approve. Anyway, do you have enough time to tear yourself away from the mangroves and take a brief sojourn to Stephen Crane? I'm hoping to bring the article to FAC soon (it's currently at peer review) but another user and I disagree on the length of the lead and whether or not it contains too much detail. I wrote the current incarnation, so of course I'm biased, but I think it adequately follows WP:LEAD. More input from users familiar with writing literary bios would definitely help. Do you have time or any inclination to comment? The pertinent discussions can be found on the article's talk page. We'd appreciate your thoughts on the matter! María (habla conmigo) 14:45, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Heh. Well, seems we're thinking the same thing. I just posted some venue ideas for the Gville meetup. Ok two things. If it's late for you and you don't want to drive back to Jax after the meetup, I have a very comfortable blow-up mattress, a curious cat that will get all in your bidnezz, and a dog that will put her whiskers up your nose. If we can't do the 'Shroom because more folks will show up than fit in a corner booth, I'll buy you a Kozmic Karma pizza all for yourself. I will take a look at Stephen Crane within the next several days. Born in Jacksonville, wasn't he? Is Pat Boone your next article? --Moni3 (talk) 14:54, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Crane was born in New Jersey, but he shacked up with a charismatic brothel owner from Jacksonville. Oo la la. I totally appreciate the kind offer, but the boyfriend has family in Gainesville, so if I couldn't stand to drive home late at night, I'd probably end up crashing with the-not-really-brother-in-law and his horde. I'm also horribly, disgustingly allergic to cats, I'm afraid, which means that your kitteh would probably be all over me. What is it about cats that makes them gravitate towards the one person in the room who doesn't want to be near them?! You should ask yours for me, I'd like to know. I haven't been to any of the other food suggestions you've listed, but I trust they're good. Not pesto pizza with feta cheese and spinach good (om nom nom), but I'll cope. :) María (habla conmigo) 15:55, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Don't get BRAINWASHED

I'm a former Acquaintance of Sarah Hudson (singer) and I absolutely love her new band Ultra Violet Sound. Listen to Brainwashed...its one of the greatest songs ever!

“ I wanna be a celebrity so YOU will be obsessed with me! You'll sweat my style- want my man- take my picture whenever you can. I'm gonna get me a famous face, and I'm gonna do whatever it takes! Botox! Collagen! Plastic Surgery! Loose more weight then everyone will love me! B-B-B-BRAINWASHED ”

The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 05:22, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

forgot to at lest provide a link The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 01:24, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

"flame queen" and a "scare queen"

I'm on break but wanted to respond if this was needed asap. "flame queen", I think, refers to being flaming, flamboyant, a "screaming queen" - so gay the closet door flew open if it was ever there. I've only heard "scare queen" as more horror, goth, macabre drag - a more obvious attempt not to pass as female or to obviously be doing drag but to have alarming make-up of some kind including things you might see it a Halloween drag show and spooky contact lenses and other special effects. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.139.44.169 (talk) 20:08, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Image:Stonewall Inn September 1969.jpg

Can I ask why you believe that this image is GFDL? J Milburn (talk) 15:31, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Image:Stonewall Inn September 1969.jpg

Hello. Can you describe the reason why this is in the GNU license? I don't see any evidence of that on my brief look at the public library page. Brianga (talk) 15:33, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi. I have emailed permissions by the New York Public Library to Wikipedia.org. A ticket should be added to the image shortly, I hope. --Moni3 (talk) 16:00, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Any answer so far? Can I ask, did you have any previous (informal) indication from them that they'd be willing to release it under GFDL? I'd actually be a bit astonished if a library did that. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:41, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Julius (New York City)

I am not sure whether you are done with the Stonewall Riots article but you have obliterated some specific referenced material regarding Julius where a skirmish there set the stage for Stonewall. The article now is wide ranging but missing on local specifics. Americasroof (talk) 19:55, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, I haven't obliterated anything. It's still there in the article history. There were some mentions of Julius in the materials I read, namely that the patrons there were older and wealthier, and refused to participate in the riots. What do you think should be included? --Moni3 (talk) 19:48, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Read the Julius article. Julius was extensively covered this year.Americasroof (talk) 19:55, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

BTW pardon my tone. You have on balance immensely improved the article. (I keep putting in four ~ and they do not seem to take that's why signature is not showing up) Americasroof (talk) 19:59, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. I read the Julius article. David Carter says this about the sip-in: The four men arrived at the Ukranian-American Village Restaurant later than planned and found it closed. The press had informed the manager of the planned action and asked how he would respond. The manager had thwarted their plans by simply closing shop. The activists then walked over to a Howard Johnson;s on Sixth Avenue and 8th Street, where Dick Leitch read a statement identifying the group as homosexual sand asking for service. The manager, Emile Varela, doubled over in laughter and ordered a waiter to bring the men bourbons, saying that he knew of no regulation against serving homosexuals. Having failed twice, the men improvised a third target, the Waikiki, another Sixth Avenue spot popular with gay men. There the men were again served. After huddling yet again, the men walked two blocks west to Julius', where the bartender was also willing to serve them. Leitsch talked to the manager, who explained that as they were already facing a license suspension he did not want any more trouble. When Leitsch explained how valuable his refusing to serve the could be and promised that the Mattachine-New York would help get them legal assistance with their current case, the manager agreed to play along. Refusing to serve the men, he told the press that since the men had said they were homosexual, he would not serve them, saying, "I think it's the law." Dick Leitsch then told the press that he would file a complaint in Mattachine-New York's name with the SLA. (p. 50)

In the context of the Stonewall riots, what do you think should be added to that article? From this, perhaps a sentence about the sip-in, but I don't think much more. --Moni3 (talk) 20:07, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

The Sip In received national coverage this year during gay pride thanks largely to the referenced Village Voice article (which had a huge photo of the sip in) which was picked up by NPR and that's why I wrote the wikipedia article. The Mattachine has maintained it was important because it established the rights of gays to gather. However as you excellently point Stonewall did not have a liquor license so that kind of obliterates the pioneering event. If you have referenced material about Julius not wanting to participate in the riots I would love to include that in the Julius article. 20:20, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I have a few sources that mention Julius. One of them is right next to me, by David Carter. The others are at home. For now, I can give you this quote (the Carter bibliography info is on the article page): Regarding Allen Ginsburg's first visit to the Stonewall the night after the first riot, "Pointing out that Allen did not generally hang out in gay bars and using the example of the jubilant looks on the faces of the street youths in the famous Fred McDurrah photographs of the rioters (Lucian) Truscott explains that 'I think his idea of what a gay bar was at the time was kind of like Julius': a bunch of middle-aged men, standing around in crew-necked sweaters having a drink. What happened was he got to see this real mixed population of queens and drag queens and these young street kids, and some of them were doubtlessly hustlers. All of them were young and had long hair. I mean, this doesn't look like a bunch of middle-aged, unhappy gay men at Julius'. And that's what he was responding to: all these sort of happy-go-lucky young guys, having a good time being gay, and not unhappy about it and not unproud about it and everything..." (p. 199)

I didn't tag the info about Julius' as I read it because I didn't think I would need it. What happens every time I expand an article with multiple sources is that I read something and think, "Oh, that's interesting. I should use that later." Then I completely forget where I saw it and can't find it again. It's very frustrating. But one of my sources includes statements by Craig Rodwell, who called his liberal friends to come support the riot, and either Rodwell or someone who was at the riots went to Julius' to tell them what was happening. Neither Rodwell's liberal friends nor the patrons at Julius' showed up. I'll have to find that...when I can. --Moni3 (talk) 20:33, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia at its best! I scold and get even better info on the article! That's a really nice info to include the Julius article to contrast the scene (and it really fits the Boys in the Band which was filmed at the bar). NPR really fawned all over Julius in its report. Nothing is ever quite what it seems. Thanks again! (I have no idea if my tildas will take!) There was an edit conflict and we're little of out of order. Americasroof (talk) 20:41, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Heh. No problem. I'll see if I can find more information from Duberman, as mentioned below. And this seriously was the most fun I've ever had writing an article. It was a complete blast. I'm really proud of it and for today only I will accept profuse praise, because I popped a cap in this article's ass! W00t!! Tomorrow I'll go back to being quiet, unassuming, and self-deprecating. --Moni3 (talk) 20:44, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

What does Duberman say about the reference to Julius? (Duberman, Martin (1993). Stonewall, Penguin Books. ISBN 0525936025) — Becksguy (talk) 20:38, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I have it at home. I didn't bring it with me because I thought I was done with it. Ah. Moni3 (talk) 20:39, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks so much on all the Julius info. And THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for the Stonewall Riots improvements. It's a night and day improvement that turned a crappy unreadable rant into something quite spectacular! It's really eye opening seeing the interplay with Mattachine Society. The picture of course is priceless with Mattachine calling for decorum. If you have a chance to listen to the NPR piece you would really get the impression that the Mattachine Sip In was the real start and that history is misguided in dating things from Stonewall. You really have burst the balloon. I will incorporate your Julius info shortly although it may be a bit. Thanks again! Americasroof (talk) 22:22, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Americasroof! :) I actually don't get thanked a lot for articles. I agree with was a bit of a mess, but that's why I took it on. I love a good story where winners and losers are ambiguous. I will check out the Julius story on NPR. I would like to work on Mattachine itself one day. --Moni3 (talk) 22:28, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Free time

Hey there, chum! Helium just passed FARC, so I've found myself with a bit more time to devote to other things. I have a few secret projects I can busy myself with, but if you want me to help out with Everglades stuff, I'm up for that too. If Everglades itself is ready, I can continue commenting on that. Or, if that's still cooking and your stress levels are low enough, I can start reviewing Geography and ecology of the Everglades. Or I can just keep my yap shut and let you do your thing. Up to you. --Cryptic C62 · Talk 22:00, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Cryptic. Geography and ecology of the Everglades passed FA a couple weeks ago. I'm taking a break on Everglades right now, just because I can't read it without getting glassy-eyed. In a couple weeks, I'll read it again and see every problem in it, fix them, then put it up for FA. Thanks. --Moni3 (talk) 14:49, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Peer review request

Hi Moni3, Dincher and I have Leonard Harrison State Park up for reer review at Wikipedia:Peer review/Leonard Harrison State Park/archive1 and were wondering if you would mind taking a look at it? We appreciate your helpful comments on Black Moshannon's FAC, and our plan is to take it to WP:FAC after peer review. Thanks, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 14:41, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I have been such a slacker lately doing PRs and FACs. It's starting to make me feel really guilty. And I predict I'll be reviewing like a mad demon to assuage my guilt here. I'm rounding out an article I hope to take to FAC soon (would love for you to give it a PR yourself), and then I'll be a mad demon reviewer. --Moni3 (talk) 14:52, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I would be glad to do a PR and return the favor - just let me know which one. Thanks, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 15:54, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

We have had the good fortune of two decent peer reviews already. Would it be OK with you if we went on to FAC later today? We can wait if you want to review it / have a review in the works. Just let me know, thanks Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 16:07, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Do what you wanna do. It's your article. You are the master. Now, though, you're just reminding me how lax I've been at FAC. More guilt... --Moni3 (talk) 16:47, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I nominated Leonard Harrison State Park for FA just now. If you want to, please take a look at it. Any comments and or suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks for the helpful suggestions on Black Moshannon State Park (even if I wasn't thrilled with them at the time). Dincher (talk) 22:29, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I was more concerned that you had read the article and were working on some thoughts / comments and did not want to frustrate that. I read the first two-thirds of Stonewall Riots and found it very good - will have some PR comments in a day or two. Please do not feel guilty at all - just keep turning out such great articles! Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 02:07, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies/Newsletter/Current

I created Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies/Newsletter/Current and updated it with July's newsletter. The page was created so that Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Newsletters doesn't have to be continuously updated. After you create each new newsletter just paste the entire newsletter on this page and it will update it on the main newsletters' page. --Nehrams2020 (talk) 00:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

the stoned wall

Yes, I'd love to review that article. Hopefully I'll get to it before the end of the week. No promises, tho – I have to put in some time on my own project first. – Scartol • Tok 18:21, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

WP:CHICAGO

According to my records, you have nominated at least one article (Ann Bannon & Barbara Gittings) that includes a category at WP:CHIBOTCATS and that has been promoted to WP:FA, WP:FL or WP:GA. You are not signed up as an active member of WP:CHICAGO. If you consider yourself either an active or semi-active member of the project please sign up as such at Wikipedia:WikiProject Chicago/members. Also, if you are a member, be aware of Wikipedia:Meetup/Chicago 3 and be advised that the project is now trying to keep all the project's WP:PR, WP:FAC, WP:FAR, WP:GAR, WP:GAC WP:FLC, WP:FLRC, WP:FTC, WP:FPOC, WP:FPC, and WP:AFD discussion pages in one location at the new Wikipedia:WikiProject Chicago/Review page. Please help add any discussion you are aware of at this location.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 19:11, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

RE: Everglades FT

I think that the whole thing was a mess. But I don't want to lose another user, so maybe you should apologize at his/her talk page. Xenus may never come back, so you should probably just leave a short apology. Just an idea, don't feel compelled to do it. --Meldshal 01:11, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I had a Featured Topic Candidacy fail once -- Wikipedia:Featured topic candidates/Hippos. I almost quit in fury when it did not pass. But no apologies were needed. Eventually everyone got over it and moved on and that's probably the best course of action here as well. --JayHenry (talk) 01:18, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I would apologize in a heartbeat if I thought the situation warranted it. Were I ashamed of my behavior, I would be the first to admit I am an ass. However, this is not the case. I was not offensive. If that is truly all it took for this user to leave, Meldshal—surely you have seen more vile behavior at Wikipedia that is more the norm. I'm a kitty cat, but an immovable one. I did nothing wrong, and I am sorry for nothing. I think before I speak. I thought about what I should say, and I'm comfortable with what I said. --Moni3 (talk) 01:21, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Jay, did you read the nomination? --Moni3 (talk) 01:22, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, and I agree that no apologies are owed. No reason for Xenus to react the way he did. Did you read my nomination? Because in my case, I think everyone actually did owe me an apology  :) --JayHenry (talk) 01:24, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I just did now. Make mental note: don't try to do anything serious on April 1. Someone tried to nominate dildo as an FAC on April 1, as I remember. Bummer, man. You going to do it again on any other day? --Moni3 (talk) 01:29, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

The Featured Topic Cabal seems to think that Hippopotamuses, Hippocampuses and Augustine of Hippopotamuses are somehow different types of articles or whatever. Until somebody breaks up that cabal and bans those involved I'm never going back ever! --JayHenry (talk) 01:34, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

This was my first experience with FT. I'm not sure still what's going on. --Moni3 (talk) 01:35, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

You are right, you were not offensive. But Sandy did point out that Zginder put failed in bold coloring, and that might have been a reason as well. --Meldshal 11:56, 12 August 2008 (UTC)