User talk:Nat Krause/Archive6

Welcome back

Welcome back Nat! It's been a few tough months (the Buddhism article even lost its FA status!). It's nice to see a dedicated contributor around again. PHG 21:28, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Iconography of the Buddha

Thanks for your kind comments. I changed the title of the article after I was told that I would be attacked by "Tibetanists" if I didn't. Apparently it's all different in Tibet, so I changed the title to reflect the fact that all my research was done in Thailand and Laos. I will look at the other two articles you mention. Adam 23:59, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Mahabodhi Temple

The picture is gone - for which we used to discuss a lot a year before. I am looking forward to edits from you. --Bhadani 14:17, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Hanshan

"""Hanshan" does mean "Silly Mountain", but I think this way is better. +characters"

I've been lied to all my life! o_0 --maru (talk) contribs 04:43, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Yes, I tried to use my name. Unfortunately, I have very unusual family name with not so common first name. So unlike John Smith, everything I type in internet will be directly attributed to me. So I changed back to using FWBO article. my usual internet alias is Vapour. But unfortunately, someone is already using it in english wikipedia. I will ask admin if they can give me Vapour. it appear that vapour is inactive username. FWBOarticle

Yoji and Hajime are both common first name and are already taken in Japanese wikipedia. My family name is unusual because it is like a first name. I'm already registered as Vapour in wikimedia, japanese wikipedian and so on. I would love to get my hand on vapour username here. Until then, it is probably not good idea to switch username too many times. I know FWBOarticle isn't a great username editing buddhist article but hey, no one is perfect. :) FWBOarticle

Not so sure if admin gave it to me or I registered as Vapour looong time ago before I get involved with wikipedia and forgotten about it but I'm Vapour now. Vapour

Unfortunately, SH is using my real name to obtain personal information. He is doing the same with RandomCritics which isn't nice given that RC really hasn't done anything. SH is also making a legal threat to anyone concerned. From now on, I will eliminate my link to FWBOarticle where link to my real id can be revealed. Please do not add link in my profile as you did before. Unless, someone use two profile simultaneously, it is not considered as abuse. Vapour

Hai Teng

hi, you moved Fan Wu Bing to Hai Teng among other changes. It would be inproper to move him to the page Hai Teng as "Hai Teng" as you call it and "Fa Shi" are two seperate titles he earned which anyone else could have if they can qualify. There are of course other people who held those titles in history, kind of like there is a seperate page for George W. Bush andPresident. Also the correct way to say his title is Hăi Dēng Fă shi1. Făshi is not one word. - unsigned comment by User:Baboo

if nothing else works... http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Hai+Teng&word2=Hai+Deng

User:Baboo

I read his unofficial biography a very long time ago and currently do not have the book. About Teng and Deng, his name appeared as Teng on imdb probably because that video is entertainment for the western market as westerners will have a slight problem saying Deng. But in official purposes such as the case of Deng Xiao Ping 邓 which shares the Deng except it is the 4th sound instead of the first, people would never use "Teng" as either “Deng” "灯,邓" does not have the “t” sound. You could always add a Wade-Giles link.

Baboo^(Talk!)

(buddah -> Buddha)

whew, what a relief. thank you! bikeable (talk) 19:19, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Seagal

Hi Nat, I guess I'm getting tired of Geir. I was thinking about reporting him for the three revert rule but the instructions are a) complicated and b) I am not sure after reading the description (what the 3RR is not) that it is the best path. Suggestions.Peter Rehse 01:05, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks anyway. It seems to have settled down some.Peter Rehse 11:42, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Anarcho-capitalism

Hi. "Rulers" doesn't necessarily mean the state - it can also mean your boss, etc, hence why most anarchists are anti-capitalist. ^_^ -- infinity0 18:16, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Jeez, it was just a friendly comment. What do you want me to do, source everything I say to you? In that case, here: [1]. -- infinity0 18:35, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, it says that "they think... [it] to be authoritarian", so it's not a statement of fact... -- infinity0 18:53, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Real Names v. Pseudonyms

re: your friendly suggestion on my userpage Thanks, but absolutely not. I would rather not be harassed any further by rabid 13-year-olds who disagree with my edits. I understand your point, and I am thoroughly willing to be accountable for my edits and comments, but I can't risk using my real name. Zero sharp 18:52, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Jainism and world religions

Thanks for your comment - I'll bear it in mind. All help welcome here while I try to do some tidy up in this area. Cje 09:14, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Buddah

Sorry about that. I touchtype and my spelling is less than desirable. The fact that Buddha is pronounced as Budda(h) in japanese doesn't help. FWBOarticle

Daybot

Hi,

Thanks for your comments. I've changed my request to have my username changed to TJDay which afaik doesn't exist. Could you confirm that it is in the right place? http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_permissions#Username_change Daybot 20:12, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Wheel of life

I reverted your category change of Wheel of life to Category:Buddhist symbolism, because it doesn't exist. --Dforest 05:43, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Username

Hi Nat. Yes I've thought about changing it too, but too many edits now. :) --a.n.o.n.y.m ^t 03:25, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

korean image

good luck convincing a wikipedian :-) hey, there must be something on flickr, take your pick Appleby 22:40, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Back!

Finally got around to setting myself up an elegant solution to the China censorship thing. Are you still around China? You're welcome to come and visit next time you're in these parts. prat 03:10, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Image:Shin Ae Ra.jpg

Hello. When I uploaded the image, I chose the GFDL tag by accident. I don't remember the tag I was going to use anymore (it is copyrighted, though), and at the time I didn't know the right template tag for it. So, I decided to keep it that way and hope no one would notice my mistake. But the correct tag, I have no idea what it might be. Sorry. --TonyM ^{ｷﾀ━( °∀° )━ｯ!!} 10:10, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Hsuan Hua article

Could you give me a list of changes/improvements needed for the Hsuan Hua article - you mentioned a need for a citation on his relationship between the master Hsu Yun and him - would a book citation be enough? Kungming2 05:55, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Good will

Look, I think we've gotten off to the wrong foot. As you know, it's important to assume good faith on the part of your fellow editors. I'm here to improve the encyclopedia. Rogerman 19:38, 16 April 2006 (UTC)Rogerman

Mongour

Hey Nat,

The person who origianlly added it was Nathan hill (talk · contribs). Here's my question and here's his reply. He left Wikipedia, probably because I unwittingly reverted a lot of his edits. (I was a new user back then, so my only method of saying "I don't like that" was to do child-like reverts) Now I know better, but he hasn't returned. His IP is 134.2.147.103 (talk · contribs), he seems to have made an edit about a week ago. I guess I just didn't like him changing every Tibetan word into Wyle, because I felt it would be hard for average readers to understand. You might be able to talk him into coming back, tell him I'm sorry for what I did. Cheers, —Khoikhoi 23:59, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I might comment, it's just that I'm hardly interested in Tibet-related articles anymore, they're just all on my watchlist. I'm not really sure if people are going to accept the new spelling, some anon already reverted the changes at Dalai Lama, for example. I do like the idea however. —Khoikhoi 00:36, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Buddhist Ethics

Ah, it was sort of inspiration that Buddhist ethics is something which is important and interesting topics which hasn't been explored. Issues such as abortion, homosexuality, euthanasia, enviromentalism, death penalty or vegetarianism are all (contemporary) ethical question which is not about buddhism itself but nontheless important. I was marking out the future development of buddhism portal in wikipedia. Vapour

Copyedited relevant information. Recovered "Homosexuality in Buddhism" which was another orphaned article. Someone might expand on this ethics article in the future. Vapour

Blocking Bot

Thanks. I would like to get back to Buddha article. There are one more section and sister article I can link which is relevant. Vapour

I should probally point out that the bot doesn't have access to my sysop account, all it does is flag vandals for real humans to take a look at. This has to be the first case of a false positive where its gone to the test4 warning, time for a deeper look when I'm not jet lagged :) -- Tawker 06:42, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Need Help

This has nothing to do with Buddhism articles but I would like to ask your advice. I'm involved in a dispute about the article about a japanese word gaijin (外人) which is acronym of gaikokujin (外国人). I have quoted from acronym article, which state that

"In English-language discussion of languages with syllable-based writing systems, such as Chinese, Japanese, and Korean, acronym describes short forms that take the first character of each (multi-character) element. For example, Beijing University—Beijing Daxue (literally, North-Capital Big-School)—is widely known as Beida (literally, North-Big). In describing such languages, the term initialism is irrelevant."

But two people are refusing to accept my proposal that "gaijin is the kanji acronym of gaikokujin" and instead insisting that "gaijin is the shortend from of gaikokujin" on the ground that acronym is an abbrebeation (shortened form) anyway. IMO, they prefer this because it make it easier for them to claim that gaijin is less formal (apocope rather than acronmy). I done my part by providing verification and they are not parituclary opposing to the fact that gaijin is an acronym but still refuse to include it in the article. If someone oppose such edit, what can I do? Vapour

I think it is somewhat getting sorted. Sorry to bother you about this. Vapour

Changes to History of Tibet

Your improvements to the History of Tibet article especially in terms of making it stylistically consistent are much appreciated. I would ask however that when you replace a Wylie Transliteration with a more "phonetic" one you leave the original in parentheses. Otherwise it can be quite hard for those of us who know Tibetan to know what is being talked about.

I also would personally request that the "phonetic" transcriptions confirm to a coherent system, e.g. the system of Nicolas Tournadre proposed in the appendix to his Manual of Standard Tibetan (Snow Lion, 2003). Take the Wylie transcription, remove the silent letters, make some changes (like spya -> cha) and when a vowel is changed because of a final use an umlaut (e.g. Milaräpa, Kagyü, Chänräzig). This system is readily readible by all, and avoids the problem which now plauges Wikipedia of e.g. Losang, Lozang, Lobsang, Lopsang, etc. all for Wylie blo bzang. --Nathan Hill

Thanks for your note. I think your policy is a fine one. It does require that words like Drikhung be linked to articles. I would like to make a pitch for the Tournadre system. It does derive systematically from Wylie, but it also tells you exactly how to pronounce the word in Lhasa dialect. This is because the modern pronunciation derives from the Old Tibetan pronunciation, and the Old Tibetan pronunciation is recorded in the Wylie transliteration. E.g. in fact Lhasa has no voiced consonants, so in the Tournadre system he uses voiced consonants to mark low tone, low tone origniated from voiced consonants so this is where Wylie has voiced consonants. Almost always the Tournadre spelling and the most common informal spelling are so close that there can be no confusion. e.g. Milarepa and Milaräpa, Tendzin, Tändzin, Dongrub, Dhondrub. To take this example there is a phonemic difference between e and ä in Lhasa dialect, and the word Dhondrub begins with a low tone aspirate initial, so Tournadre's is most accurate. Well, that was my little pitch for the Tournadre system. Best, --Nathan

Thanks For The Warm Welcome

• Thanks for welcoming me to Wikipedia. I hope to be able to contribute whenever I can and that includes getting rid of vandalism when I see it. I'll think about what you said about changing my username. So thanks once again for the hospitality.

• TenaciousD 01:03, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Taranatha page

Hi Nat, I'm not that knowlegable on Taranatha, but know several people who are. If you could manage to start something from scratch, I'd certainly be happy to try and get it checked and improved if necessary. I wonder is there really no way to stop people like Geir Smith with their nonsense? By the way, I'm not very skilled with the Wikipedia, just trying to edit some stuff I see which is incorrect :-) rudy 20:17, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

• As nominator of Tarantha, with no real delete votes other than rudy's who doesn't really seem to want it deleted per comments above, you could withdraw your nomination. Just go to the afd and state that you withdraw the nomination, then go here [2] and request that an admin close the nom. Should do the trick. I've busted this back to a stub so you can start fresh.--Isotope23 20:41, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Album covers

What gives you the impression that album covers can be used to illustrate a biographical article. The image description template Template:Albumcover says, that album covers used "solely to illustrate the album or single in question" qualify as fair use. I understand that to mean that you can't use them in other articles (except perhaps in the discography section). - Nat Krause^(Talk!) 00:10, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Then move the image down to the discography section rather than just deleting it, if that's what you think it means. However, as the articles are specifically about the artist who created the albums, using one or more album covers in the article to illustrate that artist's particular works is perfectly acceptable. --日本穣 Nihonjoe 00:13, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

RE:Huaxia

Well, as a synonym of Hua and Han, definitely. At least that's its usage nowadays, a prettified way of saying "Chinese". -- Миборовский ^{U|T|C|M|E|Chugoku Banzai!} 01:05, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Obscure article du jour

Hey, I know you always like to see what obscure articles I'm lavishing entirely too much attention on at the moment, so I thought I'd link you to it since it is out of your normal stomping grounds. Right now I'm working on the Encyclopedia of the Brethren of Purity. --maru (talk) contribs 08:29, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Karmapa Controversy

Hi Nat. Could you please be so kind to check if the wishes for change by Rebecca make sense? I felt she is given up the balanced passage on recognition. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Karmapa_controversy#Recent_reversion and the history of the article. I reverted and asked her to discuss first. (I know to less about it.) Thanks a lot, Kt66 13:20, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

It is good to see that even people so far away from here support Serbs.Thank you very much for thatDzoni 02:56, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Mahabodhi Temple

Hello, sure. --Bhadani 09:08, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

an image since added - a real one. We require a better one though. --Bhadani 10:27, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

VDZ as username

Sorry, but I won't change my user name to anything else than VDZ. Most people that know me online know me by the name 'VDZ' and not my real name...I've had this name for many years now. I appreciate that you're trying to help, but as you might see, I already know how to make articles, comment etc. VDZ 18:43, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Mahabodhi Temple Image, Gaya, India

Regarding the image of Mahabodhi Temple at Gaya, India link:

1. The snap was not taken by me. 2. One of my friends has taken the snap. 3. You may find this image on some other websites, because he may have circulated the snap.

Please do the rightful.

--Gunjanarya 05:09, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, he agrees the image to be used freely for any purpose. --Gunjanarya 05:37, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

African American

I would like to say that there is no category for "African Germans" or "African Italians", so why should we have a category regarding "African Americans"? Are African Americans superior to African Germans? Also, lets just say that they are a subset and not just people inhabiting America. If African Americans are a subset of Blacks, shouldnt it be a subset of the Black article? Another thing is if we call Americans of African descent African Americans, why don't we call people living in Liberia African-American-Africans? 1028 02:35, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Don’t you think that Europeans should be careful with arrogant logic? I think you will find the volume of African Germans will dictate why Africans in Germany who dont number that many and also are immigrants who know exactly where they are from in Africa eg Nigeria, Ethiopia etc negates the need for a clarification. Only now are Indian people in UK saying British Indian etc, it takes many generations before this becomes relevant. African Americans are not a subset of black, black is a color Europeans and non-Africans placed on African people at the time of enslavement. No African referred to themselves as "black" prior to this. They would have agreed they are from the place we today call Africa. It is amazing the legacy of enslavement where everyone speaks and thinks on behalf of African and other oppressed groups, controlling definitions to reduce people, self determination means let the progressive Africans set the terms which best describe their condition, out of respect you should try to understand and listen and learn, I would be shocked to see what African would dare go and cut out and add in the European history section. But the old trick is to find a compromised African who says what you want to hear and accredit them.

Zen Kyo Shin

I nomed it for the same reason you probably wanted to, because it didn't seem significant. I removed the nom after doing a couple of Google searches and finding hits on it from more sources than I expected. (I thought it was some McDisiplin, perhaps.) I re-cat it so that people with more knowledge of the category could find it and decide to keep it or not. That's where you come in! :) JRP 04:24, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

African American (cont.)

Putting African American under Black as a subcategory called "Blacks living in America" would not be the same as putting Black under Human beings. The African American category is like having a category that talks about squares drawn in North Dakota 1028 00:07, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

NKT

Hi Nat. The citation you asked for the expulsion is findable at:

• http://www.geocities.com/thubtengonpo/SeraLetter.html

This letter is known by NKT too and Geshe Kelsang reacted on it also in the past. So it is not just a fake letter...

and on the insulting HHDL:

• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:New_Kadampa_Tradition#citation_to_reasoning_a_passage
• http://www.south-asia.com/himal/September/dorje.htm

and see the press articles of Guardian, Independent and Sera Letter once more.

I changed some passages to make it more precise. Please feel free to improve it once again. The critic is more related that NKT advertise that they are the ancient Kadampa Tradition and Geshe Kelsang brought this ancient Kadampa Tradition to the west. I didn't revert, allthough you didn't discuss, because I saw you wanted to improve the article and this is indeed helpful. I asked others what they think on it. Kt66 09:16, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Shanghainese

Shanghainese may be division of Wu, but that doesn't mean it isn't a language. Not all varieties of Wu are neccessarily mutually intelligible, and people speaking different varieties of Wu, Hangzhou and Shanghai, for example, may not necessarily consider themselves speaking the same language. The distinction is blurrier than between Mandarin and Wu, but a similar example might be English and Scots. Anyway, it's more often referred to as Shanghainese than as the Shanghai dialect, and there's no danger of confusion over what the term refers to. --Yuje 20:19, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I noticed that

Sorry, because i noticed that the jordanian royal family members names were not the same, so i moved it, sorry for moving so many times! Astorknlam 15:00 3th May 2006 (UTC)

Canadio-Americas

Not a bad suggestions Nat - but - is the whole "Does Americans refer really just to Americans?" debate really one that needs to have more neologisms suggested? WilyD 21:25, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Tibet Box

I noticed you adding a new variant of the Wylie Box to some of the Tibetan Buddhism articles. On (my setup of) IE I get boxes, on Firefox I do get the Tibetan characters but some of the vowel diacritics are unaligned. Anyway I'm sure this is just part of the usual issues surrounding non-Roman character sets. I like it! Zero sharp 18:04, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

No, turns out I'm missing Tibetan characters a lot of places, so I'm following the recommendations at [[3]] -- that may fix it. Thanks! Zero sharp 19:13, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Bhikkhu

Not so sure about your change to the caption on the image of the Drepung monks in the Bhikkhu article. To me, it looks very much like they are all engaging in traditional Tibetan monastic debate, which is often very physical- it involves a lot of clapping and moving back and forth, and on occasion even a bit of shoving. The groupings of sitting and standing figures, the postures of the two monks in the foreground, even the way that their malas are twined around their arms all look like images of Tibetan debate that I've seen in films. --Clay Collier 00:12, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Hm, never heard of a 'lama dance'. The only dancing that I've heard of is associated with Bon rituals- lots of masks and the like. I'm quite sure that that image is a debate, though. For comparison, this page (about three quarters down) has some good pictures illustrating a large-scale debate practice like the one shown in the image. This article has the same thing, but it is a single monk debating a senior teacher- a common form for 'final exams' in a traditional Tibetan monastery. I put in a version of the caption that attempts a little explanation of what's going on- but I agree that it's not a fantastic picture. --Clay Collier 09:29, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

That's interesting. They are indeed debating and they are novices, it is strange how a person would suggest they are dancing. Me 18:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Wylie Transliteration

It is true Wylie himself wants capital letters at the begining of words. Bka'-rgyud for example. There are a lot of people out there who still capitalize the ming-gzhi, thus bKa'-rgyud. That is a bad solution in any case because it is so ugly, of not help to either specialists or non specialists. The University of Virginia people have recently recommended no capitalizations. This recommendation though is for the "Extended Wylie" system. This system is mainly to be used for the encoding of Tibetan in computer applications. In the "Extended Wylie" system capitals are used to mark characters not covered by the Wylie system e.g. sa-skya-paN-Di-ta. In an actual publication it is better in such circumstances to use diacritics, but for many computing purposes better to keep it all in ASCII.

The upshot then is. 1. in actual text capitalize the first letter of proper nouns, and treat sanskrit letters like they would be treated in sanskrit.

One needs to add a minor point, there is no capital apostrophe in english, so in this case you capitalize the next letter. I hope I have been clear, but if not you can just give me another message.

Buddha Religion - Thanks

Thank you for answering my question on the initial religion of the Buddha - It is useful.

Benjaminstewart05 17:26, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

NKT2

Hi User:Nat Krause. Thaynk you for your changes to condence the article on NKT. Normally we did now agree on it. Now a NKT member wishes to extend once more a setion and I do feel there are no really reasons/need for it. Could you please be so kind to check if Patrick K's changes will improve the article and leave your opinion at the discussionpage? Thank you very much, Kt66 19:31, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Please help!

Hello, but I have a problem I need you to help me with. There is a certain user, User:219.95.43.222 who continually deletes the "Disputes" section under the article Hsi Lai Temple and replaces it with an explanation of how in Buddhism whichever monastery is larger. However, he is deleting the encyclopedic information on the subject and replacing it with his own opinions. It is not the case that I do not agree with his opinion- ultimately everything is empty - but after reversing his edits, he typed in his opinions again and posted a personal attack on my Talk page, which I quote "Buddhism has not taught a deciple to be like you..". I have reversed his edits one last time, but please help me reason it out with him - I have no intention of being caught in an edit war.

Thank You!

Sincerely –- kungming·2 ^(Talk) 01:28, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. –- kungming·2 | ^(Talk·^Contact) 01:23, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Reality in Buddhism: question

Hi Nat, why did you mention "original research" in the comment to your edit at 18:20 on 21 April 2006 (Reality in Buddhism)? Did you mean the research by an Indian yogi, a Siddhartha Gautama? Or the research by Dudjom Rinpoche? ;-)

Great work with the templates!

--Klimov 16:23, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

OK, Nat, thanks for the message on my talk page. I didn't realize you meant that. I thought that you referred to the stuff I got from a note to the Elias Capriles' file (book). Let's maybe think how again to work in the sutra words on mirages and illusion etc? --Klimov 16:44, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

XYZ Kingdoms

By searching Mahabharata the Indian epic, i have found, 450 plus kingdoms mentioned in it. I am interested in the geographic locations of each of them, and their roles in the epic Mahabharata, especially in the Kurukshetra War mentioned in this epic, which have many historical significance. More than this, this epic contains glimpses of Indian history, before the time of Buddha. I was making articles on each of these kingdoms, now almost 105 articles were made describing around 105 kingdoms. All these articles have a common template, like their name being Xyz Kingdom. Some of the kingdoms mentioned in Mahabharata, like the Magadha Kingdom, happened to continue thier existace beyond the time of the epics (3000 BC to 500 BC). Thus they existed during the period of Buddha and after that also. Hence these kingdoms were studied by Buddhist historians also and they had separate articles, before i started my work. (The article Yaksha Kingdom deals with the probable location of the tribe Yakshas. They were just one among the tribes mentioned in the epic Mahabharata and other texts. The article Yaksha deals with their mythological aspects, both in Hinduism and Buddhism, where as the article Yaksha Kingdom, mentions their historical significance and their geographical location)

--Jijith 8 May 2006

• Dear Nat, That was how i started. My starting article was Kingdoms of Ancient India, where i put all the kingdoms mentioned in the ancient Indian texts (Mahabharata 75 %, Ramayana 20 %, Vedas , Puranas etc 5 %) in that single article. But i got the Wikipedia message that the article size exceeded 65 kB limit and it is not a good thing. Then i started writing article for each kingdom. Taking only Mahabharata, only 105 or so kingdom, where having substainital information. Others were mentioned only as one word (only the name of the kingdom is mentioned). These i am planning to put as a single page. However Magadha Kingdom is one of the kingdoms on which detailed information is given. However i have not put all of them in that article. This is is because i made the 105 articles in a round-robbin basis. In the first step i began the pages, with very limited info, with the knowledge i have retained in my memory. In the next step i will expand the article on each kingdom with detailed information, after browsing through Mahabharata and other texts, and looking for all the references of this particular kingdom alone. Article on Magadha Kingdom, have not passed through this step.

• I do agree that, Magadha Kingdom and Magadha be merged. However let me put the additional info on this kingdom on this page as per my scheme, and only after that the integration process begin. I also am unaware of the conseqences of the merger. What happens to the links to Magadha Kingdom ? Will Wikepedia automatically redirect it to Magadha ? or do i have to do it myself ? If yes, it will cause a heavy toll on me, because many cross links exists between other 105 kingdoms to this particular kingdom. Not only this, there are other kingdoms also, that have to be merged with existing articles of the same name. I hope you will guide me through this difficulty. Thank You -----Jijith 9 May 2006

A old comment of yours

I just happen to stumble on your old comment on Talk:Prince of Hongnong. I wonder why "King of Hongnong of Han China" makes no sense. I.H.S.V. (talk) 17:12, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Wonderful

It's a great photo of you in front of the Potala. I hope you had a superb time there! (20040302 23:14, 15 May 2006 (UTC))

Irgendwer RfC

I've filed a request request for comment at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Irgendwer and your input would be appreciated. --rehpotsirhc ^{█♣█ ▪ Talk} 05:07, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I just want to say that Siddharta Gautama was born in Lumbini,Nepal. Please guys, do not say he was born in India.. I'm tired of this mistake. You can visit Lumbini, Nepal and see his birth place. He experienced Nirvana in India and that's it.

Undoing redirect

Hi, I don't quite understand the rationale for this. In what way did the redirect suggest that "Buddhism (was) a subset of secularism"? ImpuMozhi 21:37, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

As the 'founding principles' section of this page says, Indian secularism is based on sarva dharma samabhava, a Sanskrit phrase meaning "Equal regard to all faiths". This is markedly different from the western understanding of that word in that it does not negate religion or deem it inimical to affairs of state. Thus, a non-Buddhist Rajput king may build and endow massive Buddhist temples and seminaries. That is the point made by that page. Regards, ImpuMozhi 21:53, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I have replied here. Just so yo don't miss it (I did). Regards, ImpuMozhi 14:36, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

I Sign a Little Player or Two

Hey, I noticed your comments on the I Sign a Little Player or Two talk page regarding its lack of context and vagueness so I've just tried to clarify and expand parts of it. Perhaps you could give some pointers about anything else that needs doing on the page and I'll try to sort it out? Regards. SteveO 00:53, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Yakshaprashnah

Oh, but I think the opposite. I think that the main article must be created under the heading of Simplified nomenclature, without using additional accent marks. And the IAST nomenclature must redirect back to the simplified nomenclature.Cygnus_hansa 00:00, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Hindu mythology and Wikipedia:WikiProject Hinduism

interested in joining?--Dangerous-Boy 01:48, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

IAST

I personally feel that IAST must not be used in the title (creating the page) because it cannot be entered directly by the keyboard in the addressbar, nor in the search box.Cygnus_hansa 04:01, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Deleting Camp Tawonga

Hi, since you were involved with the article, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Camp Tawonga (2nd nomination), best wishes, IZAK 12:49, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Howard Bloom

I thought I'd let you know that the person you commented on here is actually Howard Bloom; I contacted him at his public e-mail address, and I have posted the e-mails. Sophy's Duckling 03:53, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Renaming

Would "Religious liberalism in Rajput courts" be a better title, do you think? "Rajputs and religion" is maybe too wide for the content of the page. (LOL -- coming from the person who thought of the present title. But when we are fixing things, we might as well do a good job). Can you think of anything more snappy than RIRC? Regards, ImpuMozhi 12:29, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Vinaya

I didn't do it! I have no idea what's going on there. If I had my 'druthers, Vinaya, Vinaya Pitaka, Patimokkha, and Pratimoksha would all go in the same article. The distinction should be: Vinaya is the general term for a disciplinary system (and can be used for non-Buddhist disciplinary systems) or for the body of rules that monastics follows. Vinaya Pitaka is the particular set of texts which define and explain those rules, although the contents of the Vinaya differ from Sangha to Sangha. Pratimoksha/Patimokkha is both the core rules (without explanations or stories) and the ceremony at which those rules are recited. The problem is that in some particulars the Vinayas of different Sanghas are really different from each other, and so any discussion of particulars will end up having to distinguish, say, Theravada from Dharmaguptaka from Mulasarvastivada Vinaya, and that could be a basis for an ultimate split. But I haven't touched this particular grouping; if I altered a link somewhere I don't recall. RandomCritic 18:59, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Tibetan sidebox

The sidebox you have added in Chotrul Duchen — do you know what kind of text support is needed to see that? I use Mozilla firefox as browser and the Tibetan script is not appearing (replaced by ???). I have Indic text support and can see Hindi and other Indian languages.

Bye the way, I happened to create the article Chotrul Duchen while enhancing another article Darjeeling, as this festival is celebrated in that town also. Could you please have a look at Darjeeling and comment, if you think anything is necessary? Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 20:04, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Buddhism

Hi,

As you might be knowing, Buddhism is currently a Selected Article Candidate on Portal:India. Some suggestions for improvements have come which can be used in the article. As a long time contributor to the article, will you be interested in polishing up the article so that it can improve on the basis of feedback given? I am sure this will set the stage for the article becoming a Featured Article again. Regards, -Ambuj Saxena (talk) 15:22, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Jimbodino deleting info in Buddhism in the United States

Could you please check what User:Jimbodino did to the Buddhism in the United States Article? It appears that he deleted some info. Thanks. I have put vandalism warnings on his page also, but I cannot revert his edits as I have dial-up internet, and the page is so long that it will not load completely. Thanks a lot! –- kungming·2 | ^(Talk·^Contact) 02:14, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, thanks - I'll keep an eye out also. :) –- kungming·2 | ^(Talk·^Contact) 07:17, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Cool it

Troll attack

Why you deleted reference of Lumbini being part of ancient India? What does dab link mean? -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tatra (talk • contribs)

Hi Nat, I am sorry to have brought you trouble with several pages; user:Tatra (under some 40 accounts, includingthese) trolls me incessantly and this occasionally creates a nuisance to others also. Take my advise and don't ever dream of engaging with him or saying a word to him. Some 18 archived talk-pages of the Rajput page bear witness to his nutheadedness.

Sorry, but all I can do is offer you a Lassi. And compound the inconvenience by requesting that you keep an eye on Lumbini and other pages that he is trolling. Sorry again. ImpuMozhi 13:41, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Ladakh

Hi! Ladakh is in peer review ar present. Could you please check out the article? You may get partcularly interested to contribute in Culture, History, Demographics etc. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 10:56, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Buddha

South Asia is a rather broad term and includes modern day India, Nepal, Pakistan and Bangladesh. So India or Bharat is correct place of birth for Lord Buddha. Tatra 08:49, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I read the link you left on my talk page. It is a modern myth that India as an entity did not exist in BC. This myth is more a creation of British who sowed it. Would you explain what is the reason for you to make this statement? Then I can give you counter arguments. Tatra 08:59, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

FTB

Thanks for your input, as a matter of interest, could you check the section on the talk page and note where you got it, what the literal translation is? etc. Thanks! :) - FrancisTyers · 23:49, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Dalai Lama

Why are you yanking mention of reasons for Dalai's leaving Tibet. Obviously he is not in India out of sweet will is he? Tatra 09:33, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi, Nat Krause, Tan_Ding_Xiang here. :). Do you remeber anything about Kwetsang Rinpoche?-- 陈鼎翔 贡献 和 CCD Chat with Tdxiang on IRC! 09:50, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Maya Merge

Do you have any objection to me trying to merge Maya (Illusion) and Maya (Hinduism)? We could always revert it if people don't approve. Chris 23:00, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

editing, not vandalism

not vandalism, but editing - The edit envolved the fact that Buddha was interpreting the Hindu understanding of the Cosmos User:Tribal-fusion

Ignorance of Buddhist scriptural Indexing, N.K.

"I should like a second opinion on this translation. Also, the Digha Nikaya to my knowledge contains 34 sutras, so I'm not sure what the "249" here (and other similar numbers) refers to. There have been some questions about Attasarana's citations on Talk:Anatta"-Nat Krause

Get a clue, son, its called Roman indexing, by verse, DN 1.249 is Digha nikaya, book 1, verse 249. Its the common indexing system used by both the PTS and Wisdom Publ.; since you dont know that obvious fact, its every so clear you know nothing about Pali or its various indexing systems. - User ATTASARANA,Pali translator, author of books on Buddhism, Buddhologist, expert in Neoplatonism and Vedanta.

It's true that I don't know anything about Pali.—Nat Krause^(Talk!) 23:42, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

The standard sigla for Pali texts uses the PTS (Pali Text Society) Editions unless otherwise stated. The main sigla are:

AN Anguttara-nikaya

DN Digha-nikaya

MN Majjhima-nikaya

SN Samyutta-nikaya

Items in the Ksudraka-nikaya are usually cited individually thus Dhp = Dhammapada, Iti = itivuttika, Ja = Jataka, Ud = Udana etc. The same applies to the individual books of the Vinaya, although one sometimes sees Vin.

In cases which do not follow the format of DN I.249 etc, then you might expect the reference is to a published translation, again, usually by the PTS or perhaps, but unusally, to another edition such as the Burmese Sixth Council edition, but uusually some hint will be given. Hope this helps.--Stephen Hodge 01:45, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Ole Nydahl

Hi Nat. Could you plaese check if there is any problem with the WP guidelines to mention that on Ole Nydahl there are some controversies and state a research article with references and citations on it? See also the talk page of the Nydahl article. Thank you very much, --Kt66 21:20, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

AZTA (American Zen Teachers Association) revision

Hi Nat. I had hoped that the original author would make the changes - rather than just hack/edit it myself. But I'll go ahead and see if I can reword it. I don't have anything against the AZTA (or you, for that matter) - but I do think that the authority of the AZTA is greatly exaggerated in the article as it currently exists. My goal will be to try to change it in a way that doesn't cast aspersions on either the AZTA or the original author of the article. My changes will amount to a significant revision of what is currently there - but I hope that my intentions are clear. Sorry if I was being annoying (which in retrospect I probably was). Durruti36 (aka Curt Steinmetz) Thu Jun 22 12:50:34 EDT 2006

Plotinus

Hey Attanasana is posting vandalism (his URL to his website) on the Plotinus page. He is also posting his interpretation of Plotinus which runs counter to what Plotinus taught. Since he does not sign in and or sign his comments I wonder what can be done to stop him or at least place him in check. He has also found an allie in Goethan. LoveMonkey 15:10, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Attanasana is back at it again on the Plotinus talk page posting incorrect information about Plato and Plotinus and claiming himself a prophet or voice for the greeks. LoveMonkey 11:58, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey thanks for the revert of Attanasana vandalism to my personal page. I appreciate that. LoveMonkey 15:09, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Adi Da

Hi Nat, you may want to have a look at the Wikiquette alert I've posted regarding Adi Da, where some editors are refusing to discuss edits. Peace, Carry18 21:30, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

İlham Əliyev

You're it!. This user is one of the more perplexing I've dealt with. Maybe you can make more sense out of the apparent contradictions of her/his argument. Good luck. Pinkville 23:14, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi. I know that it will look like kinda stalking, but I came along this, which I think is about my comments and I feel that I need to explain my position a bit. I understand that my arguments might look contradictory. Because, I am for changing the article name to Ilham Aliyev, but at the same time I have voted against it. The reason for this is, if we agree and change it, then I know that no one will be going after French and Spanish names. Therefore, this article should change as a part of a larger move action. I hope it's a bit clearer. --TimBits 17:56, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I think I understand your point now. I would like to make one small point of my own, though. In English, diacritical marks such as the accent over the "e" in the name "Frémont" are ignored - "e" and "é" are considered the same letter, not different letters, that is why spellings like "Frémont" are accepted in English - and why spellings of names like "Hồ Chí Minh" are accepted in written English (you see, it has nothing to do with First vs. Third World origins) - in fact they are considered interchangeable with "Fremont" and "Ho Chi Minh", respectively. But a letter like "Ə" is different - it is a character outside of the alphabet - unlike diacritical marks such as "¨", "`", "¸" etc., which (in English) simply modify the 26 letters of the alphabet. For that reason, names that use only the 26 letters of the alphabet, with or without diacritics, are accepted in English - and therefore acceptable for Wikipedia.

Sorry Nat to use up your talk page for this! Pinkville 13:25, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Alurista

I have provided the reference to the poet's quote identifying himself as a Buddhist as per your request. Accordingly, I have also restored him to Category:Buddhists. Thank you for helping to improve the article.--Rockero 00:49, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Buddha as Avatar of Vishnu

Hi Nat ! I think you will find that the editor in question is an avatar of Attasarana. In view of the recent acrimony over anatta, I don't intend to get involved in this -- though the basic premise of the article is probably viable.--Stephen Hodge 22:49, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Buddha an Avatar of Vishnu is a false and insulting propaganda by Brahmin and Shudra Varnas Hindus. They insult Buddha by equating him with different avatars of Vishnu like Varaha i.e. Pig. This is very insulting.Dhammafriend 16:15, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Tibet

Hi the 8 out of the Panchen Lama articles I started were just stubs. Check out Ramoche Temple, The Potala Palace , Shalu Monastery and Tashilhunpo Monastery. It is almost entirely my work. I have even started the Tibetology article!!!! Check them out! It is a pleasure to share some of my knowledge about Tibet James Janderson 19:15, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Need wise help editing 30KB "skandha" article

Hey Nat - know you're on a wikibreak, sorry to knock, but, if you get a chance, if you could take a peek at my query for help on the skandha article's talk page[4], it would be much appreciated. (The vast majority of the problem has to do with my own verbosity.) Given your obvious commitment to Buddhism, your volumes of experience with wiki-editing and your abundant good will, I'd appreciate your ideas and edits. Thanks! LarryR 19:09, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi Nat - Thank you so much for sharing your invaluable experience and for your generous and kind encouragement. Your expert feedback is greatly appreciated and greatly esteemed. While I realize editing on Wikipedia is like making a mandala of sand, it's good to know the transient effort is deemed worthwhile by someone like yourself for now :-) With metta, LarryR 05:30, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Help w/copyright

HI--I see there is a problem with the copyright on the image of Robert Baker Aitken and Anne Hopkins Aitken on their respective pages. Please let me know what I can do to fix this---We certainly wish to release the pic for use on/by wiki. thanks, dr8 22:44, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Teravada a subschool of Sarvastivada??

Hi! Why did you put Teravada as a subschool of Sarvastivada? That cant be right.--Aryah 02:26, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

How did you count only one opposed?

For the page move request at Qingzang railway, one support, two opposes. Yao Ziyuan 04:17, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Copyright

I couldn't see the copyright status: http://www.purifymind.com/KisaGotami.htm

The other one was trickier, as I found the same thing on several different sites:

www.buddhistdoor.com/passissue/9604/sources/blpg28.htm http://www.triplegem.plus.com/26to30.htm being just a few -- so I didn't know if there were any copyright infringements as it was posted on so many sights.

But if you find anything, edit it. It was a quick job as I was trying to get as many of the important disciples up quickly, and later change what was written (edit and add more)...so it is temporary.

no, will be changing it and putting own words to it...that was only a temporary set up, as the life of the disciples are pretty long, and this was simply a quick fix to make sure there was something there, if people read it...but hopefully there will be something new by the end of this weekend--Sangha 13:24, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

just to inform you, it has been changed and is perfectly legit now.--Sangha 21:37, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

basum

Hi. read the article again. Lake Basum Tso also known as LAKE CUOGUO, literally meaning green water in Tibetan. mY SOURCES TELL ME THIS IS CORRECT,James Janderson 08:53, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

in your neo-buddhist article

i think that in your neo-buddhist article, there shall be a place for the official view of india. i think it to be a indispensible point, in case a NPOV is maintained. u can put all views there, but if it lacks the official form, then it surely lacks something. nids 11:05, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Ambedkar Article

The User "Rama's Arrow" also known as Nirav Maurya has totally changed Ambedkar article. He deleted the all links given for writing and speeches. Is there any policy to revert it back? Dhammafriend 14:35, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Oisêr

Please have a look at the discussion page for the article about Oisêr (Öser). —Babelfisch 06:14, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Unconventional naming convention

Thanks for starting the vote at Chicago, Illinois. I hope you're okay with my comments. If you want to start similar votes at Los Angeles, California, San Francisco, California, Dallas, Texas, Boston, etc., I'd be happy to contribute... --Serge 21:56, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay. It's just that you're pretty typical. There are many people like you who don't like the way the unconventional "convention" causes a particular city or article name to result, but are not interested in going to the next step and challenging the larger convention. In the mean time, there are a handful of folks who are obsessed with applying it everywhere, and it's tough to build consensus against them. --Serge 23:16, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Avatar of Vishnu

Dear nat, civility is a 2 way street on wiki, anyone who who goes around putting tags on things they don't know anything about and crossing things out as was done on July 12 by this same person, is hardly an expert and is rudeness personified. A linguist "expert", should stick with linguistics and a linguist who doesn't know the relationship of "Buddhi", "bodhi" and "Buddha" is also not much of an expert on linguistics "buddhism is about acquiring Bodhi not buddhi" is laughable. Anyone who doesn't know the difference between a "deva" and God, is not much of an expert on myths.--216.254.121.169 19:10, 14 August 2006 (UTC), I'm sure hodge can do his defending and doesn't need you to do it for him,

Hi!

Hi Nat!

I've just added my name to the list at the Buddhism Portal. I'd like to get involved, creating, editing, whatever needs doing! If there's anything you think I could help with, please let me know, either on my talk page or by email (user dot rentwa at googlemail dot com). Rentwa 22:12, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Chicago, Illinois -> Chicago move

The support is there. How does the actual move happen? --Serge 01:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Bonze

Why did you redirect Bonze (Buddhism) to East Asian Buddhism? As of now, the term is not used nor explained there. Bonze has a separate article in the German, French, Japanese, and Russian wikipedias, so it could probably have one here as well. Rigadoun (talk) 19:09, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Boston Tea Party

Howdy, I noticed that you and I seem to post in one or two articles dealing with progressive issues in political science/sociology. There's currently a debate beginning in Boston Tea Party as to whether the article should include the category [5]. It meets definitions set in the articles Terrorism and Definition of terrorism, however, there are several self-proclaimed patriots who watch BTP who refuse to recognise the fact. The simple criteria for terrorism generally seem to be intimidation or destruction of property in order to change public policy or public opinion while a state of war has not yet been declared. Some users would rather use recent acts of terrorism as a yardstick, rather than using a firm definition, and hence lose their ability to discuss matters calmly. Would you be able to pop in to the Talk page and join in the discussion? Thanks much, samwaltz 05:24, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Requested move: San Francisco, California -> San Francisco

Please vote at Talk:San Francisco, California. --Serge 18:05, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Chinese People

Please respond to my discussion in the Chinese people article. Otherwise I'll think you accept my explanations. Editor 1 20:34, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Justin Raimondo

Your edit conflicts with WP:MOSBIO#Names (see the example using Clinton). Can you justify that? Biruitorul 05:38, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the change. I appreciate it. Biruitorul 16:20, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

3RR on George W. Bush Article

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia under the three-revert rule, which states that nobody may revert an article to a previous version more than three times in 24 hours. (Note: this also means editing the page to reinsert an old edit. If the effect of your actions is to revert back, it qualifies as a revert.) Thank you.--RWR8189 22:24, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Don't take it badly. That's just Ronald Wilson Reagan, President in '81-'89's way of trying to scare off people who dare to edit in negative stuff about Republicans. He does this to lots of folks.

Atlant 00:46, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

You had 3 edits in 24 hours, if you weren't aware of that I didn't want your last one to be the one that gave you a block. That's all--RWR8189 01:48, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Edipedia

He also keeps removing the sockpuppet tag from his sockpuppet[6]. --- Hong Qi Gong 18:33, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Han Chinese in Mongolia

Is it possible to change the name of this into "Chinese Mongolians", because as the page "Chinese people" cites: the Chinese Mongolians could also belong to one of the minorities. Perhaps there are Tibetan Chinese Mongolians that live in Mongolia. Who knows ;). Please send a message back regarding your response. Thank you. Deadmaster 20:39, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I'll change it into "Chinese Mongolians", that way there will no more fuss in the future regarding "minorities" or something else.

Glad to be on board!

Hi Nat :)

Thanks for your long reply - I was a little depressed at first as I only had 2 (both negative) replies from everyone on the Buddhism project, and deeptrivia had an 'away on a break' notice on his user page - it seemed like Buddhism at WP was not just in decline but actually dead!

In the meantime (not to be deterred) I have begun this, in order to improve the Zen coverage a bit, I also wrote an article about Gutei and was preparing one about Baso, before I realised that it may be more productive to begin a collaboration. If there's some formal way to incorporate and acknowledge it within Wikiproject Buddhism I'd be grateful. I'm about to put it on the list of collaborations, and will then begin contacting any likely editors - if you could nominate/vote on some articles it would make the collaboration look more 'lived in' and less like a wilderness and I'd be massively grateful :) . I'll add anything from the 'Open Tasks' requested articles that is relevant to Zen.

I'd be happy to monitor RC and new articles on Buddhism - my main areas of knowledge are Zen and Mahayana Sutras - I'm pretty ropey on Tibetan and Theravada. Re language, I'm a complete novice, unless we're talking about English grammar (on which I'm quite the pedant). Re vandals, I've begun doing some warnings/reverting myself on non-Buddhism matters, it would be handy to know which active admins were interested/involved in Buddhist topics.

Thanks again for your reply :)

Rentwa 13:41, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Update:

I've created the collaboration page here and done a rather sexy looking (IMHO) template to stick on nominees. I'd appreciate it if you'd have a look and tell me what you think :) .

I've had a look at the requested articles, certainly a few of them could be put on the Zen collaboration page. I used to visit Throssel Hole in Northumberland quite often, but unfortunately never met Houn Jiyu-Kennett. The monks there still tell stories about her.

Rentwa 20:01, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Cheers Nat,

I read various of your entries on name problems - I didn't really realise it was such a problem till you pointed out Baso already existed (thanks btw). It did concern me, however, when doing the Gutei article that including 2 other english transliterations (is that the right word?) was going too far, although in the process of researching it I came across 1 more - that's 4 english spellings of the same name!

What do you suggest on the name thing? It seems to me that disambiguation pages could deal with the problem - is there some additional complication I'm overlooking? Is it especially bad in Tibetan?

I put on the zen collab page that it would be useful to have some asian speakers involved, because when researching Gutei I came across about 10 articles in chinese/japanese for each one in english on each particular zen master (it also occured to me that it would save a hell of a lot of work in expanding the zen coverage if some friendly bilingualists could simply translate whole chunks of the japanese wikipedia into english (just text) which I could then wikify).

Could you get some assistance from tibetan bilingualists? Is there a tibetan wikipedia?

On more concrete matters, I'll use current wikipedia policy until there's any change (I have virtually no knowledge at all about what is the modern standard Chinese, but I'm sure I can work it out - if I'm in any doubt I'll ask you, if I may, and don't hesitate to shout at me if I get it wrong :) ). I don't really have any opinions or input except to say that from a personal POV I'm used to Joshu vs. Zhaozhou and 'Joshu' looks to my eyes more english and 'friendlier' than 'Zhaozhou' which looks strange with all its z's! But I would hate to rock the boat, so I'll certainly abide whatever the policy is!

I'll move Gutei myself and include a redirect from 'Gutei' - I think this is the correct thing?

I haven't started any recent changes patrols yet, but will do so today - no idea what to do, but I'm sure I'll learn!

Would you mind voting on one or two of the zen suggestions - I know you're busy with other stuff and don't have a lot of time, but I'm about to start advertising the collaboration, and to have the imprimatur of an experienced Wikipedian would make it look better than just my name! Rentwa 10:36, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm guessing, btw, that 'Juzhi' is the mod std Ch for 'Gutei' (aticle starts 'Kinka Gutei (Jinhua Juzhi, or Chin-hua Chu-chih)...') Rentwa 11:17, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I'll totally defer to your judgement in naming matters - I don't have any useful knowledge at all.

1st experience of RC was quite an eye-opener, btw - some vandal had cross referenced his vandalism - took half a day to find most of it and slap -curly blant vandal curly- on all the IPs. Also had an argument with sapsocat (sp?) re orthodox translation, although we're agreeing to disagree ATM.

Are you an admin, btw? I think most of thye vandals I came across deserve instant blocks (but I'm kinda hot headed :D).

I'm feeling guilty abt monopolising Buddhist effort for zen - I can start a mahayana colloaboration too once zen is up and running. Rentwa 13:39, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Re: Talk: George Bush

Ohh, I see now! My mistake. The strikeout is fine. Cheers, Kasreyn 11:31, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

early schools

I've been doing quite a bit of work on the various articles concerning the early schools, and found in various articles references to scholars' opinions of the origin of Theravada. It seems they do sometimes (not always) count it to the early schools, and I think that's enough to include it into the category. Categories are not meant to symbolize inclusion or exclusion, just to group together articles, and the Theravada article is obviously related to the articles in the category:Early Buddhist schools. It is mentioned frequently in those articles, and those other schools are also mentioned in the Theravada article. For some examples of the quotes I found, see Talk:Theravada (the top of the page) and the article on Sthaviravada. So I will add the article to the category, which is currently up to date with the relevant articles in Wikipedia.

Nice picture by the way, at the Potala. Greetings, Sacca 06:55, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Got your email

And thank you in return, for your efforts on China-related topics. =) Keep up the good work. - Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 00:28, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

mediteranean

Yes, I know it's not an optimal name especially if it's spelled wrongly, but I just wanted a category to group these articles about ancient rome, greece (including bactria), egypt, turkey, israel and buddhism, because I am interested in it and it wasn't easy to find the relevant articles. In the future more articles will show up that match this category. Maybe you can come up with a better name?Greetings, Sacca 02:56, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Buddhist Naming Conventions: Ajahn Chah

(Blockquote copied from Deebki talk for reference)

Hi, Deeb, I came to this talk page after looking at recent edits to Ajahn Chah. I've also read the correspondence between you and Sacca, and I'd like to give my opinion. Normally, it is indeed Wikipedia policy that religious figures should be listed under their names without titles. However, this is not enforced without exceptions. The Catholic Popes are an exception, for instance; this is not out of a particular desire to honour them, but for the practical reason that they often use fairly common names and it becomes necessary to include "Pope" in order ot distinguish them (the same rationale as our naming convention for kings). I have intended for a long time—so far without fruit—to propose a general policy for naming non-Western religious figures. The gist of my proposal is going to be that we must use the simplest form of the name—i.e. without titles—except when that makes the name difficult to recognise. An additional exception, I suppose, is if the unadorned name sounds positively insulting, rather than simply neutral. "Ajahn Chah" probably qualifies as an exception on the first count (as well as the second if Sacca is correct). In the case of Ayya (Ajahn) Tataaloka Bhikkhuni, on second thought, I don't know for sure which titles if any are necessary. Please note that my suggested policy is not consistently enforced on Wikipedia, although I hope it eventually will be. There are still a lot of Tibetan lamas, for instance, who have "Rinpoche" in the titles of their articles, which I don't think is really necessary.

In any event, it's important that we move articles by using the "move page" function, not by executing a Wikipedia:Cut-and-paste move. Deebki, can you please undo the cut-and-paste that you did to Chah?—Nat Krause^(Talk!) 05:20, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Certainly, Nat. I'd be most happy to undo that move (I was chagrinned to make the move initially). I'd like the articles to be consistently named, which ever way is correct. Do you have a discussion page about your naming proposal? I'm very eager to see a policy set. If using full titles is correct, how 'bout if you correct the changes you made to the name of the article on Ajahn Tataaloka and I'll revert the other changes I've made to titles, too? Sacca is absolutely correct. It is, indeed, a great insult not to use an Ajahn's title. I was about to change the name of Ayya Tataaloka to Ajahn Tataaloka when you moved it to the non-honorific name. Deebki 05:44, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Your reverts on Han Chinese

- Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia under the three-revert rule, which states that nobody may revert a single page more than three times in 24 hours. (Note: this also means editing the page to reinsert an old edit. If the effect of your actions is to revert back, it qualifies as a revert.) Thank you. Tecunre 19:32, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Indian Buddhist Movement

Thegreyanomaly and all anti-Buddhist Hindu People

User Thegreyanomaly the article Indian Buddhist Movement is about Religious movement which is growing in India slowly since last 50 years. But Brahmin-Shudra Hindus are anti-Buddhist and always modify or play with Buddhist articles. A Hindu person can be a Brahmin-Hindu if he is a priest by profession in any temple otherwise they are Shudra-Hindu because all non-priest i.e. non-Brahmins are SHUDRA in Hindu Religion. In Kali Yuga Hindus have only two Varna as per the religious philosophy of Hindus. Buddhism in India was totally killed. Some blame Brahmins Or some blame Muslims for that, it is a vast topic of study. I don't want to blame anybody. Hindu Castiesm, Hindu Untouchability and Caste based Graded Inequality became very strong after fall of Buddhism in Indian sub-continent and before British came to India. Education to all non-Brahmins was banned and the rigid Hindu Religious laws made by Brahmins like Manusmriti, VishnuSmriti and other DharmaShastras became the laws to govern the non-Muslim society.

British gave education for all and broke the anti-Human Hindu Laws. After Independence Dr. Ambedkar revived Buddhism in India. He also established "Buddhist Society of India" certainly NOT Navayana Society! So there is no meaning branding the movement as Navayana. Because the founder of India's Buddhist Revival Movement which is certainly against Hindu Casteism and injustice that Hindus are doing since hundreds of years called his movement as Buddhist Movement. Also Dr. Ambedkar said that 'He will convert whole India back to Buddhism' but he was killed just within 6 weeks after his conversion to Buddhism. Some people blamed Brahmins for his death. It is not sure how he died. I dont want to blame anybody. So Thegreyanomaly and other anti-Buddhist Shudra Hindus can discuss current Buddhist Developments in the article "Indian Buddhist Movement". About Hindu Caste and related things they better write to Hindu Articles Or Caste Related to Articles. If Navayana is a anti-caste publication then Thegreyanomaly should put that link in Caste Related article.

In India legal system we have Hindus, Muslims, Christens and BUDDHIST as different religion. Expecially our 2001 cencus gives more details about different religions population. We dont have any 'Navayana Buddhist' in whole India neither it is recognized legally anywhere. Officially we have around 1% Buddhists in India. This population unofficially can be 4% also because thousands of people are converting to Buddhism. But lets take official figures.

Caste is a problem of Hindus certainly not the problem of Buddhists. Brahmin-Shudra Hindus always try to vandalise different articles related to Buddhism and Buddha. 170.252.80.2 15:52, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

The user Hkelkar is not following Wikiepedia Directives for discussions and NPOV

Regarding Indian Buddhist Movement article I have asked the user to come for specific points that are not acceptable. But he is showing his anti-Buddhist mindset ans it not open for any discussions. Wiki Administrators except Brahmin and Shudra Varnas please take note of this. He is also using popups and reverting the articles without any discussions Dhammafriend 16:16, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Warning

• It might not have been your intention, but your recent edit removed content from an article. Please be careful not to remove content from Wikipedia without a valid reason, which you should specify in the edit summary or on the article's talk page. Thank you. --Cromwells Legacy 18:01, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on the contributor; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks may lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. HawkerTyphoon 18:05, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia under the three-revert rule, which states that nobody may revert a single page more than three times in 24 hours. (Note: this also means editing the page to reinsert an old edit. If the effect of your actions is to revert back, it qualifies as a revert.) Thank you. HawkerTyphoon 18:13, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

That's true, and so I've warned him too. However, your edit summaries were frankly racist, insulting, and unwarranted. Even if (as I hope) they were in jest, they weren't very funny, and your comment on his and my talk pages aren't really warranted either. Be more careful in future! HawkerTyphoon 18:22, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, a second point - you mentioned that this isn't the international Wikipedia - AFAIK, it is, spanning all English speaking countries worldwide - Not just the USA. HawkerTyphoon 18:23, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

No, you can't count one. And I did post a message on the talk page and I invite all the users to be in conformation with WP rules :)

And I also post a message of "Don't blind revert" and invite politely all the users to a polite conversation. WP:BITE & WP:CIVIL --Cromwells Legacy 18:24, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Scrap that last comment i made: confusing talk pages HawkerTyphoon 18:29, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Compromise accepted. 3RR blocking are only as a preventive measure, see here: WP:3RR. Cheers, --Cromwells Legacy 18:31, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

See you Nat, see you later on irc. --Cromwells Legacy 18:37, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Geshe Michael Roach

Dear Nat, may I ask your short attention to have a look at the things happen at the mentioned article.

After observing for a long time the efforts at the site of Geshe Michael Roach either to repress critic or to have biased critics (I am not free of such faults too), I felt the urge to use selfsources of Geshe Michael so that the critics can be put in the article without endless discussions. It would be nice if you can have a look and improve or comment it. (It maybe possible my last edit is reverted once more, so please look in the history too. I wish to avoid provoking an edit war but see also not much hope to avoid it.) Please look also to the link of the controversies if it is against WP rules, Thanks a lot, --Kt66 19:13, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Need to separate Gin people from Vietnamese

• You should find that there is an article Hoa (Chinese-heritage Vietnamese citizen) parallel to Chinese, so Gin people (Vietnamese-heritage Chinese citizen) should be independent from Vietnamese, otherwise, this is POV. 202.64.87.162 06:20, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Indian Buddhist (so-called) Movement

I'm sorry that you think my edits are "tendentious". I would welcome any reasonable discussion in the talk page. Plese participate.Thank you.Hkelkar 17:39, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry that you misunderstood my position as trolling. The reason why I refer to Indian Neo-Buddhists as "so-called" is that, according to my interpretation of their indoctrinations, they are not Buddhists in the sense that they don't follow the Buddhist principles of Ahimsa and Dhamma. It is not Dhammic to hate Hindus, and it is not Ahimsa to vandalize temples and burn them down as they have done in Karnataka. It is not Dhammic to defame people. A Dhammic movement is not led by the Louis Farrakhans of India.Hkelkar 17:46, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Don't talk like you are the only authority on Buddhism. Buddhist will decide what to follow and what not to follow. In India we have Buddhist and their population is increasing.Dhammafriend 21:52, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Navayāna Buddhism on the Indian Buddhist Movement page

I have cited sources that show that scholars have called Ambedkarite Buddhism navayāna. Dhammafriend refuses to believe that Ambedkarite Buddhism could be branded

Dr. Ambedkar revived Buddhism in India so you can not brand is Old OR Neo! Its Buddhism. People from Europe /USA are converting to their own found Buddhist practices. All are Buddhist so newly converted people are not branded as neo ! Please also visit www.e-b-u.org. In Indian Context Buddhist from Ladakh, Assam, Maharshtra, Karnataka etc. are a fighting unitedly for Buddhist Revival. Do you know All Indian Buddhist Monk Association ? Especially for Mahabodhi Temple Liberation Movement world Buddhist are united. Buddhist monk from Japan Bhante Surai Sasai is doing best in Central Region of India Nagpur to mobiliese masses Dhammafriend 10:13, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

the fact is all Buddhism is branded something or the other and scholars have branded Ambedkarite Buddhism as navayāna. Ambedkarite Buddhism is the only Buddhist movement in India. Buddhists from Ladakh, Assam, or Darjeeling are ancestral Buddhist populations that did not get extinguished, hence, the "Indian Buddhist Movement" should only be applicable to Ambedkarite Buddhism, which has been called navayāna

Dhammafriend is stubborn and keeps reverting the article and removing statement "or Navayāna Buddhism (Pāli नवयान navayāna, literally "new vehicle")". May I put this back in, along with my citation.

Thegreyanomaly 02:20, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I originally posted this on Tom Harrison's talk page, but he said he needs a third opinion.

Gail Omvedt has called in Navayana in her book Buddhism in India: Challenging Brahminism and Caste and I've ssen it in the index of Reconstructing the World: B. R. Ambedkar and Buddhism in India by Surendra Jondhale and Johannes Beltz

Its known that Ambedkarite Buddhism does vary from the main 'ancient' sects, hence, it itself should be a sect and the last time I checked it is mainly Ambedkarite Buddhism that can be called an Indian Buddhist movement and scholars have called this Buddhism, Navayāna Thegreyanomaly 04:26, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Read on talk page I have given detail explanation that Indian Buddhist Movement is a non secterian movement. Goenka, Ambedkar, Iyothi Das everybody has given hid contribution. Now British Buddhist, Japanese Buddhist are also helping the Buddhist Movement and it is growing. If you need any proofs I am ready to give. If you want to come India I'll arrange visits to different place to see how many people are converting to Buddhism from various Hindu castes. Dhammafriend 21:57, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Hidden Attackers Thegreyanomaly and Hkelkar

I have asked both the users Thegreyanomaly and Hkelkar to come forward and have discussion. Also I told them to give their contacts details to know more about Indian Buddhist Movement but they are not coming forward. Once banned my Username with tricks. Also branded me and my brother in USA Bodhidhamma as Sockpuppetry case. Can you help in this regard ?Dhammafriend 22:02, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Brother eh? So this one's trying to hide sockpuppetry through meatpuppetry?Hkelkar 07:51, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

IRC ban

Sorry about that. I obviously mistook you for a troll. I think you had the sbcglobal IP. I'll make sure that that doesn't happen again. Bumm13 11:38, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Have a look at

Hi Nat, it would be fine if you can have a look at Geshe Kelsang Gyatso if the article is fair, unbiased uses proper language and leave your comment for improving it there. Thanyk you, --Kt66 11:20, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Happy Hols

Take care :) . Rentwa 08:53, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

WikiSeclusion

ok, thank you it is not that urgent at the moment. Take care, --Kt66 13:00, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Dhammafriend and Truthlover

Dhammafriend (and Truthlover) has completely reverted [Indian Buddhist Movement[|this page]] to how it was prior to his/their ban. He/They did not only remove the navayana concept, which he/they question but also all the citations that cleared up citation neccessity's. I have reverted the page to how it was prior. Thegreyanomaly 23:22, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

It is also important to note that "they" reverted the 'official-style' referencing back to their informal previous citations, they also removed claims of dubious assertions and etc. the proof is [[7]], [[8]], [[9]] Thegreyanomaly 23:47, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Dakini

Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dakini. Ekajati (yakity-yak) 17:48, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

User:Seemagoel and exoticindiaarts.com

Hi Nat, I was investigating what looked like spamming of the exoticindiaarts.com website on more than 150 wikipedia articles. I found they were almost all added by User:Seemagoel, whose only edits appear to be adding the link, frequently along with content from the site. I saw you had followed up with the editor about possible copyvio issues and were satisfied the user had permission to release the content. I was wondering if during this you found out the relationship of the editor to the exoticindiaarts.com website?

I'm also interested in what you and other editors think of the content added and the value of the site to wikipedia readers. On the surface it seems like a classic case of spamming since a store front website is rarely a reliable source for encyclopedic information. But I have no real experience in the subjects that are being posted to. I see that few of the wikipedia articles are well sourced, so it may be these are actually some of the best sources available, but I was under the impression that most Eastern religions have a fairly lengthy hstory of academic enquiry that I would have thought would provide good sources. Any thoughts or suggestions here that could guide my actions would be apprectiated. Thanks, --Siobhan Hansa 14:39, 6 October 2006 (UTC)