User talk:Nrswanson/Archive 5

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

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Archive 3

Archive 4

Archive 5

Archive 6

Invitation

Please accept this invite to join the Unreferenced Article Cleanup WikiProject, a WikiProject dedicated to decreasing the number of unreferenced articles on Wikipedia. As of December, 2008 there were over 154,000 unreferenced articles on Wikipedia, we need your help! Simply click here and sign your username to accept!

Changing the CoM format

Hi. Since you and Folantin proposed some changes to the CoM format for January [1] (with which I agree), perhaps we should start a discission now on the OP before people disappear for the holidays? I'm happy to get the ball rolling, but need to know if you'll be around in the next few days to participate. (I left a similar missive on Folantin's page.) Best, Voceditenore (talk) 09:07, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Folantin will be around for the next 2 weeks, and I won't be really busy until the 19th. Since you'll be busy until after the week-end, I'll start off the discussion on late Sunday or Monday. Still gives several days for other members participate before Xmas intervenes. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 11:07, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Reassessment?

Hello. I am coming to you, an experienced assessor of music articles, with a question: How can I list an article for reassessment? I'm interested in having the article, Robert McFerrin, reassessed. It is listed as a Start-Class by the WikiProject Opera group, and it used to be. Three months ago, however, I added content that expanded the article to more than 14 times its length and inserted 45 footnotes. In the subsequent time it has been visited fairly often and received more than 35 edits. It seems to me time for a reassessment, but I don't know where to find a reassessment list. Can you suggest a next step for me? Thank you in advance.Hammerdrill (talk) 15:59, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Romilda Pantaleoni

On 17 December, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Romilda Pantaleoni, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 17:07, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Ballet Infobox

Thank you for creating the new Ballet Infobox!

I have taken the liberty of preserving the old under the name {{Ballet 2}} for reasons that may surprise you; then again, maybe not.

Your new layout is in every respect superior, but it will raise the hackles of balletophobes, of which there are a great many.

It has been difficult to get opera buffs to accept a Ballet Infobox on pages for their composers.

Even when such composers are no longer performed in the opera house but are played year in and year out at the ballet.

Adolphe Adam is an example (though I hope that we have reached an armistice there.)

The old Infobox runs vertically down the right side of the page and can be tucked into a list of said composer's ballets.

Your new box that uses full screen width to such good effect would set off an armed insurrection on such pages!

So I am going back and replacing a few of the {{Ballet}} templates with {{Ballet 2}} (as few as possible).

Thank you for taking the time to create such a nifty Wiki. gadget! — Robert Greer (talk) 16:53, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Ballet template(s)

Hello, Nrswanson. You have new messages at Robertgreer's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

List of vocal ranges

Hello Nrswanson I believe you are fighting a battle after you already won the war :-). I made the reverts as recomended by Uncle G and the title List of vocal ranges was automaticly deleted when the revert took place. So in other words you are asking to delete a title that has already been deleted. I believe that was the point Uncle G was trying to make, but wanted us to find this out on our own for the next time we run accross this situation. Thanks. ShoesssS ^Talk 13:56, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Re: Further suggestions for revamping X o M at the Opera Project

Hi, could you give some more input here: Further suggestions for revamping X o M, especially re keeping CoM and which C to choose? I'd like to get this wrapped up as soon as possible. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 07:33, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Albert Reiss

On 23 December, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Albert Reiss, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 19:26, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

Ecoleetage (talk) is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Don't eat yellow snow!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{subst:User:Flaming/MC2008}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

ballet templates (cont.)

May I ask that you e-mail me? When I try to EmailUser/Nrswanson I receive:

No e-mail address

This user has not specified a valid e-mail address, or has chosen not to receive e-mail from other users

You can send me by clicking on: EmailUser/Robertgreer — Robert Greer (talk) 03:21, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

P.S. You might look at the recent history of the Bolshoi Theatre and La Scala and Contributions/Whjayg.

Reply to ballet templates (cont.)

Hi Robertgreer. I am afraid that bad experience in the past has caused me to decide not to give out any contact information, including my e-mail. So really the only way to correspond with me is on my talk page here at wikipedia. In regards to User:Whjayg I would suggest talking to him. He's actually a nice editor and goes by the name of Jay. English is not his first language so at times his communication can be choppy or unclear, but usually he expresses himself well. In looking at his edit history I can see where you are coming into conflict. I myself am entirely neutral. I don't think the ballet template is essential for either article but I don't see that its presence is harming anything either. There is certainly a better case for the ballet template at the Bolshoi Theatre as it has a much more close association with ballet than La Scala. If you need someone to arbitrate dispute I will help but I really am entirely neutral about the outcome of the conflict.Nrswanson (talk) 05:29, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

further reply

Your past experiences do not surprise me!

I have taken the liberty of moving this from my talk page back to your's, being that that's where I initiated this.

I hate it when discussions ping pong between two talk pages.

If holding the conversation here is amenable to you, just make a new section on my talk page with whatever title seems fit and paste {{talkback|Nrswanson}} into the edit box.

It will send me here, and I'll archive the talkback template after I've read your latest (I archive everything.)

It was clear that User:Whjayg is not a native speaker and is reassuring to be told that he's a nice guy.

English being his second language may have given me the wrong impression.

I agree with your appraisal of the relative merits of ballet in Moscow and Milan, though fans of Carla Fracci and Alessandra Ferri might differ.

What it finally comes down to is renown, and the Bolshoi Ballet may just be the most famous in the world, thereby overshadowing the equally illustrious Opera. Conversely, La Scala is almost certainly the most famous opera house and casts its long shadow over the every bit as important ballet company. Life is not fair.

What I find odd is that the good burghers at WikiProject Opera don't have anything to match your Ballet Template. They've got a good dozen special purpose templates and more than a hundred for composers but nothing they can put at the bottom of any old page.

N.B. There is a by no means universal dislike of ballet within the opera world and perhaps an even more virulent dislike of it in the classical music universe. Ironically, many composers (and I don't mean hacks) would go unperformed or nearly so if it were not for the ballet.

Consider the case of Adolphe Adam; his Le Corsaire and Giselle are performed along side Swan Lake and La Sylphide.

Can the same be said of his best known operas, Le postillon de Lonjumeau, Le toréador, ou L'accord parfait and Si j'étais roi? Though in this particular case there may have been bad blood going back to a discussion of the spelling of the ballet Ondine (like I said, I understand your desire for privacy.)

I'll make contact with Jay via his talk page, but it could be a while.

My main concerns are the ballets of Balanchine and Robbins and more generally the repertory of City Ballet.

They'll be in season the next two months.

Tickets are really cheap, fifteen dollars, thirty for a pair, if you join the Fourth Ring Society and don't mind wearing an oxygen mask.

In truth, the fourth ring is excellent seating.

The New York State Theater was designed to Balanchine's specifications, and many of his and Robbins' ballets are so formal that seeing them from above is desirable.

Though, if I had the money, I'd sit in the front row of the second or third ring.

If you buy your tickets the first day single seats go on sale you can get aisle seats in row D or E, and at such a nominal price I see every program twice. — Robert Greer (talk) 04:11, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Proposed change to article guidelines

Nrswanson, I have suggested a change to our article guidelines here. As an active contributor to the project, I value your comments. Thomprod (talk) 15:29, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Project tags (plus Happy New Year)

Hi. I think it's best to wait till the end of January before tagging/rating Operas of the Month (or whatever). I've only just started Rodrigue. These articles already have the attention of the Opera Project since they're on our front page. I plan to make this comment at the project tomorrow. Meanwhile, Happy New Year. --Folantin (talk) 19:05, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

OK. I'd appreciate it if you changed the rating at the end of January though. We need to sort out what we are going to do with the assessment system (if anything) next year. In the mean time, it's not a worry. Cheers and Happy 2009 whenever it arrives. --Folantin (talk) 19:16, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Nice total revert

Hi, Nice total revert. Just like with vandalism, as in when a person blanks the page and puts "Your mama wears army boots". Oh, by the way, this is what causes silly edit wars. People do total reverts back and forth. OK, since Wikipedia articles are expected to be edited, I will go back and redo the most glaring examples of un-needed bullets, and we will see if you feel that you have ownership of the singing article OnBeyondZebrax (talk) 20:05, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I am sorry. I am not familiar with a rule against defining elements in a bulleted list. Perhaps you feel that since the elements have a Wikilink, then you don't have to gloss them. However, some readers print articles, so relying on the Wikilinks won't help these readers.OnBeyondZebrax (talk) 20:21, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Way to escalate the conflict

Um... interesting that you immidiatly jump to accusations of ownership and edit waring before even talking to me. Not exactly a friendly or civil way to start a dialogue. I personally prefer bullet points and embedded lists in this instance as opposed to prose, as such lists disseminate the information in a more reader friendly format. I am of course open to any changes if they improve the quality of the article. Just because I may disagree with you and prefer an earlier version does not mean that I am expressing ownership of the article. I suggest that you actually take the time to explain your reasoning behind what you are trying to do and argue for its merits rather than throw a temper tantrum. This is a collaborative encyclopedia after all.Nrswanson (talk) 20:12, 1 January 2009 (UTC) (Above note was relocated from OnBeyondZebrax's talk page)

Hello Nrswanson, I am calmer now. I became frustrated with the total revert, because it is treating edits no better than a vandal who erases the article and replaces it with "I LUV SINGING IN THE SHOWER". I would like to suggest that the only accusation was of article ownership. The reference to edit warring was more indirect. I was arguing that total reversion can cause edit warring, because the person who has the total revert changes it back, and so on. Nevertheless, I admit using the term can be a conflict-causing step. Sorry. Anyway, back to the issue at hand. Bullets and numbered lists. You are correct, they are clear. But the Wikipedia style guide section on "Bulleted and numbered lists" says "Do not use lists if a passage reads easily using plain paragraphs." (see the WP:MOS). Granted, I am biased against bulleted lists, as find prose develops ideas better. However, this style guide instruction seems to me to suggest that prose is the default writing mode for Wikipedia.

Regarding the issue of whether we should rely on Wikilinks, if you go to [2] or WP:LIST" the "Think about print" paragraph of the List style guide, it says "Don't forget, we want to make the creation of a print version of Wikipedia as easy as possible, so try to use terms such as "this article" as opposed to "this website" and certainly don't use terms such as "click here" (which make no sense, when using a screen reader, for instance). You may also find it helpful to imagine you're reading the article in another encyclopedia." This justifies defining unusual terms in bulleted lists, such as phonation -- you can't assume the person is reading the article online. They may have printed out the article and they may be reading it on paper. The style guide also notes that "Although lists may be organized in different ways, they must always be organized." Some of the lists in the singing article, such as the list of vocal pedagogy issues are not organized and grouped into subheadings. I will get back to you with some ideas to improve the article.OnBeyondZebrax (talk) 01:49, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Kiri Te Kanawa

I see you have "clipped her wings" somewhat. Still, there is now more detail in the intro. She is a well known singer, and was unfortunate not to have been born in the US or Britain, where she would have got much better reviews. You did add various criticisms of her, while other sopranos are only lauded with praise on Wikipedia. Still, it is much better than the state it was in, and I did notice that you kept much of the original content and reworded it to be more diplomatic. Wallie (talk) 19:22, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I think that some other sopranos are rather over-hyped, especially the modern ones. A lot of people do not think Kiri is a great soprano, like say Kathleen Battle, Anna Netrebko or Renee Fleming. I think she is up there (not taking anything away from the others). Kiri is more down to earth and modest than some other sopranos - compare her with Maria Callas. Wallie (talk) 19:32, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

fine

I thought two was ok. I'm not sure how to move one back anymore. Can it still be left in a holding bay in update? Victuallers (talk) 20:42, 7 January 2009 (UTC) Thx - that should work I guess Victuallers (talk) 20:45, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

Sorry please forgive me, you can erase, this is not problem for me. But you’re wrong. I am not an opera singer I am only a Italian singing teacher. I had more sopranista and countertenor student. You should to think there is a big example from history. Known Farinelli’s voice 3.5 octave. Think this 3.5 octave contains which voice registers? I am not a fun of him only I watched his one video from youtube. And I wanna share with other users of vikipedia. Research Castrato voices you’ll see what I am thinking about :) And one thing more :) I am interesting with Jorge Cano. Do you know any record belong to him where can I listen or more information. All the best, success. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Singingteacher (talk • contribs) 19:29, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

DYK selection

Thanks for all your work assembling queues but please take care picking which hook to use when moving to next. I had struck my own alt1 from Franciacorta (wine) after a discussion on the hooks page over the proper terminology but you chose to promote the struck alt1 hook. - Dravecky (talk) 01:42, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Castrato

You removed the name of Timur Okutman from Castrato#Modern_castrati_and_similar_voices with the reasoning that a castrato can't sing baritone; however, nowhere in the Castrato article is there a claim that this is true. Timur Okutman's website claims he is a natural castrato and according to Wikipedia:Blp#Using_the_subject_as_a_self-published_source a personal web site is considered a reliable source. Please add some reliably sourced content to the article to support your claim otherwise your reasoning for deleting Timur Okutman has to be considered original research. -Regards Nv8200p talk 02:32, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Maria Zamboni

On January 10, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Maria Zamboni, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Dravecky (talk) 09:04, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Nino Martini

On January 11, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Nino Martini, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Dravecky (talk) 20:48, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

No content in Category:Durham University alumni

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Category:Durham University alumni, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Category:Durham University alumni has been empty for at least four days, and its only content has been links to parent categories. (CSD C1).

To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Category:Durham University alumni, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. To see the user who deleted the page, click here CSDWarnBot (talk) 02:40, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Phil Lamason

Any specific reason not to use the image associated with this hook? I'd delayed using it from the last queue I built with the intention of putting this one at the top of the next queue, complete with photo. No worries either way, mostly curious. - Dravecky (talk) 00:27, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

DYK nomination for Dan Kroffat

Hi, you rejected and removed this nomination (diff), as you believed that the article had only been expanded 4x. Because the expansion is only supposed to be related to the prose (not lists, which is pretty much all that the old article had), I actually count an expansion from 244 characters to 3565, which is a 14.6x expansion. For more on this, you can check Template talk:Did you know#Ray Gunkel, where another one of my nominations went through the same confusion. Would you please be able to reconsider promoting this hook? Thanks. GaryColemanFan (talk) 05:37, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

DYK for St. Peter's Church, Jaffa

On January 16, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article St. Peter's Church, Jaffa, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Dravecky (talk) 17:10, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

RE: DYK review of Papaya mosaic virus

Oh, right, sorry. I don't generally review articles at DYK but as the process has become a bit "dead" lately I'm only trying to help out. Sorry if I wasn't accurate on that occasion, I'll try to do it again. Thanks! Garden. 22:33, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Ah, it's a little better if I made the same mistake as you :) Hope to see you around T:TDYK in the future. Thanks again, Garden. 22:46, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

DYK deadline

Hi, Nrswanson! I just noticed this message you left at User talk:La Pianista. We do usually accept noms older than 5 days if the day is still under expiring noms (see unwritten rules D8). But the eligibility of the article is for you to decide of course :) Cheers. Chamal ^talk 02:57, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Please tag specific sections

Please tag specific statements within articles that you feel need ref improve. The Reservisor article is several pages long and has many references. Without tags on specific sections, there's no way to know what the problem is. Maury Markowitz (talk) 00:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Every one of the cite needs you added is in one of the existing cites or linked articles. Maury Markowitz (talk) 00:22, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Wait, there was a DYK review? When? Why wasn't I posted? Maury Markowitz (talk) 00:25, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm still looking for a list of individual statements in the article that you feel are not referenced. From what I can see, you simply inserted a cite-need at the end of every paragraph whether or not it is referenced. Maury Markowitz (talk) 12:45, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Copyright concerns

Hello. There is no easy way to say this, but I am a bit concerned about the similarity between some passages in your article on Polly Young and her entry in Grove, [3], which is cited as a source. For example, your last paragraph, from "The Barthélemons lived in Vauxhall ... " to "... another Swedenborgian, Baroness Nolcken", is identical to the last paragraph of Grove entry. I think these passages need to be reworded to avoid copyright issues - do you agree?

(I note in passing that the article provides a reference for the profession of her father to Polly's entry in Grove, but that Grove entry does not mention it, although the Grove entry for his father, Charles Sr, does.[4]) -- Testing times (talk) 19:49, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for being so understanding. It is mostly fine: that paragraph was the bit that gave me most concern. The other areas that I thought could be potentially problematic were the sentence about Jefte, the sentence about her letter to The Morning Post (although, on a second look, that could be ok), and the sentence about Haydn's visit. But your version generally reads better than the original! -- Testing times (talk) 20:27, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Anthony Young (musician)

On January 20, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Anthony Young (musician), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Dravecky (talk) 19:52, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Charles Young (musician)

On January 20, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Charles Young (musician), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Dravecky (talk) 19:52, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Cecilia Young

On January 20, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Cecilia Young, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Dravecky (talk) 19:52, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Isabella Lampe

On January 20, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Isabella Lampe, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.