User talk:Orderinchaos/Archive 05

This is an archive of inactive discussions. Please do not edit it. If you wish to revitalize an old topic, bring it up on the current talk page.

Archive : May 2007

Now thats what I call service :-)

Was just about to go to an edit view to see the template parameters! Ta. SeanMack 15:24, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Question

I have made another article on Dave_Hole and this box has now been posted 'This article (or section) may need to be wikified to meet Wikipedia's quality standards.' and am uncertain what they are requiring. There has been a few comments made in edits about it : 1. (cats & WP:PDATA) 2. (Date/fix the maintenance tags or gen fixes). Thx for the Adoption, i just noticed it now. Boylo 04:19, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Seems that they wanted the Info Box added, so have now done that and added Wikified as part of the wikification drive.Boylo 01:22, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Greetings

From the nether world of the long lonely at times insanely absurd hike through Australian categories - I have finally got to the point where I have decided that I should remove unsigned (probably never any use to the category or the average user) comments that appear on some - however before I implement this early may resolution I thought I would pass it by fellow eds albeit admins as to whether I should do so - or should I just leave them. If pressed I could give egs - but the process - of seeing stupid questions or statement with no sigs on the category page - and no sign that there ever will be a followup - seems to invite reverting so as to cleanup the catgory page - and boo hoo to the editors who expected that anyone wouild ever respond to something on the cat page in the first place. any thoughts on this would be appreciated, cheers SatuSuro 01:34, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Republic Protests

I would welcome your feedback on articles talk page. -- Cat ^chi? 04:28, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

TEE

Thanks, I thought you were on a break and I didn't want to burden you with anything. All help appreciated. —Moondyne 12:57, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Oi

This is your medical advisor speaking - you need sleep! SatuSuro 23:47, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Australian Projects

Do you know if there is any aussie music projects happening ? Seems to be a lot of musicians and bands that could be covered by articles as a project. WP:AWNBDont seem to cover the music side of Australia, but maybe its under something else ?Boylo 23:48, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

• Found and joined Australian Literature and Music ProjectsBoylo 02:10, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
• Decided to just do the Wikipedia:WikiProject_Australian_literature as enough work there alone to last for ages. The Australian Music Project seemed quiet. Boylo 02:33, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Townsville

Hi Orderinchaos, could you please have a glance at my edit to Townsville, Queensland, I obviously have a strong view on this issue and while I tried to be neutral in my writing I would appreciate a second set of eyes going over it. Thanks, WikiTownsvillian 14:26, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi Orderinchaos, did you mean TT? if not what does TV stand for? I will check out those articles. Amalgamation is not imminent, in fact no recommendations will be made by the Commission for a couple of months yet and even then it is up to the state government (legislatively) to actually implement the recommendations, there is only speculation at the moment (in media, business and political circles) as to what the Commission will recommend for sunny North Queensland but nothing more than that, Beattie and the Local Government Minister have said some pretty strong things though about State wide reform by March 2008 elections. WikiTownsvillian 14:45, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Poor thing, hope you get better soon, sick for the long weekend too, no good at all. Queensland was going through a similar process to what you are describing, however the Government decided that things were not going fast enough and so they created an independent commission (three or four public servants and three former politicians, one from each party) the Commission has a total of three months to completely review all Councils in Queensland and their boarders and to make recommendations as to ideal boarders. So you could say that the current situation is at about the extreme level of controversy, the State wide focus hasn't been on Townsville/Thuringowa but on all the micro councils all over the place who are predicted to be merged. That might give you a bit of background. WikiTownsvillian 15:00, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Re: Question re nav template

Wikipedia:NavFrame should explain it. The collapsible class attributes are autocollapse or collapsed. In the {{Navigation}} type templates, there's usually a state= parameter in which to insert the attibute. --cj | talk 07:55, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Convert template

Yes {{convert}} looks good. I saw it while checking the most recent edit to City of Stirling. Graham87 08:16, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Curious

Check out my 'amazing rubbish' edit and look at the previous edit - what do you think? SatuSuro 11:45, 5 May 2007 (UTC) My apologies that seems like an eternity ago - tonights tagging has taken a toll on the sanity - viz my talk items at the 100 influential wa'ns - must invest in awb on my kids pc! :) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3A1936_in_Australia&diff=128409061&oldid=20920002 one of the more intriguing items found (and deleted) from a cat talk page today  :) or should it be :( cheers - sorry to have not given a specific ref. I'm off now - gotta fetch teenager from the wilds of the sand flat and get em safely back to the hills - speak to ya later - remember to sleep ! SatuSuro 14:31, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

LGAs

Thanks :) Youve been doing really well expanding them! Now I must take a break from wikipedia for a while or I will never get this assignment done. --Astrokey44 02:01, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

WP:ADOPT input

Hello, Orderinchaos. The Adopt-a-User program is looking for new ideas and input on the program. If you are still interested please stop by the talk page and read some of the ideas being floated and give a comment. If you want to update or change your information on the adopter's list page, now would be a great time! Thanks! V60 ^{干什么？ · VDemolitions} 03:48, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar LGA

		The Society Barnstar
		For your efforts with LGA's on WA Gnangarra 12:37, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

low indeed

Sorry to interrupt your AWB session, but I just had to point out that you just rated an article that doesn't exist![1] :-D Hesperian 12:50, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

gawd more edit conflicts than reverts in unencyclopedia - as I was going to say

typical edit conflict over a dead body - I had written:-

Oi

Talk:University Flying Club, Western Australia its a deleted article - got done like a turkey by ..(other comments I was going to leave ommitted so that the guilty shall not shame himself :) SatuSuro 12:53, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Gawd my watchlist is flummoxed by your activity - hope youre automated or something SatuSuro 06:11, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I will still have to catchup over a variety of issues - will try a gmail before next week - re a couple of questions - want to try to seek out arts for the maritime hist, tas and lit projeccts - will probably need some advice on it - but not now sheer chaos SatuSuro 06:17, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Also...

You should see User:AnalInnocenceThief. Merbabu 11:40, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Amityville Horror music

I'm a bit puzzled by the decision to remove the brief extract of the theme music from The Amityville Horror on copyvio grounds. It seemed within fair use and is mentioned in the article as it was Oscar nominated. Could you provide a rationale for this decision, as the non-free audio sample tag seems to describe the usage context acceptably. --Ianmacm 19:36, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I have put the clip from the theme music back for the time being, because a brief clip for review purposes seems well within the international copyright laws. It is things like entire three minute songs on YouTube that cause problems.--Ianmacm 06:42, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

This ams worst

20 Page section 'The wheatbelt all you need to know about wa's haertland what codswallop. But nevertheless some odd bits might be worth as a cite for some wheatbelet arts SatuSuro 08:55, 11 May 2007 (UTC) This ams special 20-page edition fiday may 11 2007 - I was thinking of scanning some of the more weirder parts - there is on the 3rd and 2nd last pages a wheatbelt events calendar and a box of all the shires emblems - crappy quality tho SatuSuro 09:08, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Rating

Hello. You don't know me, but you seem to have it in for my edits. You seemed to have ignored my evidence on the proximity of North Mole Lighthouse and placed it in Perth?!?!?!? I can understand why someone might think that, BUT I can assure you my data sampling and higher powers of deductive reasoning have categorically placed this in the territorial waters of WA (Western Australia). I utilised GPS (Guinea Pig Sounding) with the Piece of String (you have my certification) as a lead-line and the pig as a lead. After I plumbed the depths, I reeled back the fourteen kilometres of string and the Guinea Pig had under gone transmogrification into a small shark. Thus the combinations of spatial and temporal anomalies cannot credit your interpretation of human geography and the inherent implications of my argument are beyond refute. Good day sir!

E. argutifolia

For a start, I recommend Florabase.[2] For eucalypts, Euclid is excellent.[3] This is an endangered species, so you should also have a look at the SPRAT database - for some taxa it has full information but in this case you're out of luck.[4] For authoritative taxonomic history information, check out APNI.[5] And if you're still dead keen for information, harass me for sources. Hesperian 12:25, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

P.S. If you want Eucalyptus argutifolia written, but don't feel motivated to do it yourself, let me know and I'll be happy to take it on. Hesperian 12:35, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Good for you! As far as I can tell, the important journal sources are the original publication of the taxon in Nuytsia, and the two Australian Journal of Botany articles by Kennington. I can provide the Kennington articles by email immediately if you want them. And I can scan the Nuytsia one next week if you want, but by all means get it from Battye if you're going to be there anyhow. Hesperian 12:52, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Bruce Rock logo.png)

Thanks for uploading Image:Bruce Rock logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot 19:05, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Kenmare, WA

Hi, in this edit, you removed a ref to Kenmare, WA. However the List of postcodes in Western Australia still includes it as does this search db Is that list incorrect? --Rye1967 11:42, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Thx for response. You know the area, I dont. I take your point and your changes make sense.--Rye1967 23:24, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Micronations

And controversy - are but like honey and ants - give me the dungeons of Fremantle Prison anytime (should have gone tonight but otherwise the night is too complicated as dads taxi). SatuSuro 12:48, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

AFDs on Tool songs

Based on what? Don't you think a little discussion is in order before doing this? Wikidan829 13:30, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm adding some comments to the AfD page shortly. Wikidan829 13:48, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Re: Jambi

See the infobox to the right, under "Peak chart positions". I haven't verified the numbers myself yet. –Pomte 03:45, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for backing me up with Chicken7. Harrison-HB4026 11:47, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for your recent decision involving the YHRI speedy deletes.

I will continue to urge both sides of that issue to keep moving forward and find a good compromise for merging the articles into one.

Best Regards, Peace in God. Lsi john 18:53, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Happy early birthday

Just a happy Birthday message to you, Orderinchaos/Archive 05, from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!

Politics rule 23:15, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Happy birthday

What it says Wikidan829 03:17, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Huh. Happy Birthday!!! Many happy returns. ☻ Fred|☝ discussion|✍ contributions

It was happy from him, and him, and it was happy from him, as well - btw happy! SatuSuro 07:22, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

As for between the WAGRC and Middleton beach you sure have been in a very strange country :o SatuSuro 07:24, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

and from me. Gnangarra 07:26, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Not to mention the Kingdom of Kongo :) Thanks guys. Orderinchaos 07:32, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Happy birthday, thanks for being the best-bloke admin around. Twenty Years 10:13, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Hope you have a great day. --Kzrulzuall ^{Talk• Contribs} 10:17, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

HB WikiTownsvillian 12:10, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

A belated Happy Birthday Boylo 11:09, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Wishing you all the best on your birthday! From the Wikipedia Birthday Committee.

Whatever you wish for on your special day,

May each of your wishes come true.

Cheers, PeaceNT 15:08, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

YHRI

The three articles have now been merged into YHRI. They may be deleted and redirected to if you wish. Youth for Human Rights Canada

Youth for Human Rights Australia

Youth for Human Rights U.K.

Thank you for your patience. (and happy birthday) Lsi john 19:00, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Already sorted by TexasAndroid. Thanks again. Lsi john 20:44, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Sock

DavidYork71 is back - as User:VanTongeren and now 149.135.35.2. Merbabu 16:16, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

AWB

Theres something about the whole Tasmania project passing over my watch space with your 'harmonising the tas project' floating past - trust you dont get dizzy or anything) SatuSuro 07:28, 18 May 2007 (UTC) OK the story there - originally there was a hobart project - and when longhair started the tas project he enabled/transferred hobart yes to mean tasmania yes when the tas project started up and approprtiated the hobart project - I hope that makes sense - theres really no need to have done it - but seeing you are putting the tasmania importance thing in with awb no great loss... hmmm SatuSuro 07:33, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Aesthetics 100% - its your time and energy! Anyways it might be a good way of shaking out any oddities - I just did a random check of your contribs - and I seem to hav most of em - I sometimes think it would be good for a project to be able to have a subpage (with a script or bot to do it not a manual issues) that automatically lists all articels and categories tagged for that project - as an inventory issue - not just the cat pages, but anyways its a crazy friday - cheers SatuSuro 07:38, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

reminds me of my whole undergraduate career :P SatuSuro 07:41, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Re: your comment at the talk page of SatuSuro, Victoria WP tagging should be fine. There never was a project covering a similar regional scope before WP:VIC got up and running, so most tags would be correct.

What really needs work is cleaning up the actual WP Australia template. I plan to get into that soon once the local rush on real life slows down ;) -- Longhair\^talk 07:52, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

By cleanup, I really meant documentation. Once assessments for sub-projects got underway recently, the documentation on template usage hasn't kept up. Any assistance towards getting it all up to current standards is welcomed... -- Longhair\^talk 07:56, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

If you are in for real excitement - my son going to saosin concert left his ticket at home - emergency rush from the hills to the metro - you might like to cleanup the table at 1912 mount lyell minding disaster for fun and games :( im off and off and off 07:59, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

No. Both parameters were hardcoded to dump articles into the Tasmania-related categories. It won't matter if any talk pages remain that point to Hobart=yes. For the sake of cleaning them up (and a good job there too I must add, didn't take you long), I'm not aware of an easy way to locate Hobart entries other than allowing AWB to skim through the Tasmania-related categories (as you've problably already done). -- Longhair\^talk 11:01, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Wow - thank you very much for that - I owe you a long coffee or a very large orange juice for that at least! SatuSuro 13:34, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Underpopulated categories

See Category:Members of the Australian House of Representatives by Division. Your thoughts? Bennelong has already been deleted some time back. -- Longhair\^talk 09:43, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm with you. It's over the top, however created by a well meaning editor. What to do? I think we propose the deletion of the lot... -- Longhair\^talk 09:51, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

UM - I reckon the thin edge of the wedge (see also my comments at longhairs talk page ) - problem is I think the mean/median average escape the hatchet type cat needs to be determined - as to whether its 20 or 30 existing or possible/potential in short term. I tend to side on the keep a structure there potential core cats of any number - but they need to be outlined explained somewhere. But for the reps by division - I'd say yes with reservaions that the oz project be made aware of the requirements to avoid the chop for cats SatuSuro 10:09, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Forgot

To let you know that I have started Western Mail (Western Australia) - you may be interested... SatuSuro 03:20, 20 May 2007 (UTC) And if it got lost into the large talk item above - thanks v much for the 1912 dsaster - intersting - the published writer (10 things that changed tassie etc) who has been working as a ip no only had put in a list that varies with the external link list in the art . I have tried for the WM art for DYK (it'll take alifetime to catchup with moon) - any suggestions/edit on the WM art would be appreciated. Im off for a bit now - so thanks again for the 1912 table finish!SatuSuro 05:30, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Box

Does not make sense in St Lukes Private Hospital - looks like its been lifted and not cleaned out :) SatuSuro

The hospital is anglican (sic) the box has a very generic link to the catholic church - blind as a bat I say :( SatuSuro 12:39, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm just about to launch my onstrosity - no time for looking at others rubbish - got to launch mine :) watch that space (dont hold your breath though) :) SatuSuro 12:42, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

categories

hi. from memory Category:Australian romantic fiction writers was a few weeks old & i may have put an uderpopulated tag on. it might have been useful, but i know nothing about the genre, hence couldn't populate it (i know there were more that fitted in it somewhere in the oz writers cats). it would be helpful if you consulted other editors involved in the area before removing categories that might be useful. please raise the issue at talk WP:ALIT if you intend to remove more from Category:Australian writers. thx  ⇒ bsnowball  14:41, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Closure of AfD on Tool songs

You nominated and also closed this discussion - although "people should not" do this, I have no problem with this except for a question about redirecting vs merging. I just expanded Die Eier von Satan with a bunch of citations. If you agree that all the sourced content should not be lost and be merged into Ænima, then don't you think the album article will be giving undue weight to one song? Now, suppose I do the same thing with numerous other songs on the album. The album article will become bloated and should be split per WP:SUMMARY. Detailed verifiable facts about the songs are not exactly in the scope of an album article; see Lateralus for a messy example. –Pomte 08:54, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I just did a brief search to see if I could prove you wrong and came up short (incidentally, someone sang "Pushit" in an audition for American Idol). There will hopefully be more effort to improve the album article rather than scattered song articles. I didn't say the format of that AfD was messy - but that's not necessarily a bad thing, as it probably scared off general deletionists so only people who know about the songs would comment (nothing against deletionists, as they did !vote delete). –Pomte 09:29, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

(copied to Pomte's page because I'm not sure where to carry this convo on at). I don't have a problem with the nominator closing the discussion either, as the decision seemed very common sense. I share Pomte's concerns that the articles may bloat, but all music articles have "drive-by fanboys" so to speak so I guess we'll just have to be a little tough on any unnecessary bloating. The editors that edit these articles the most can probably agree on what that is, at this time anyway.

Maybe in a few years if Tool (band) is as legendary as a band like Led Zeppelin, they would deserve an article on each and every album song (perhaps a bad example, but i just checked and all the songs from Led Zeppelin II have articles). At this time, no matter how sourced the information is, I do not really understand why songs like "Disgustipated" and "Deir von Satan" should have their own articles. As a fan, I of course love these articles, but I try to put myself in the place of a person that has never heard of Tool or knows little about them. I'd like to find a way to weave these bits of sourced information into the album articles (instead of a section for each) but there is probably some work to be done on the album articles besides the new additions. When we get these album articles in a little better condition, any drive-by trivia additions for specific songs may dwindle. daveh4h 19:52, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. And BTW I'm in the same boat re music - Pushit and Disposition-Reflection are among my favourite songs by any band. Orderinchaos 19:56, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

A subsection on each song was the first solution that came to mind. A bullet list or paragraphs without sections would encourage just as much drive-by, and paragraphs that do not flow into each other as of yet might as well be sectioned off for better readability. Without "H." and "Third Eye" there, I think it'd look even more weird to have a single block of text for that one song. Any verifiable info on the songs is useful as there are probably still a lot of misled interpretations out there. The section on Die Eier may be as big it should be; do you think there's anything that can be cut to condense it? –Pomte 00:20, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I'll have to take another look at Die Eier von Satan again but I don't think it can really be shortened, and don't really have a problem with the length right now. I'm trying to find a good album article to use as an example to help layout the Tool album articles. I personally like the Led Zeppelin II article and the way it flows. It touches on most (if not all?) of the songs on the album, and does so in a way that flows with the rest of the article. Additionally, I am not sure if there is a solution to getting the Tool album articles to flow and read like a proper encyclopedia article at this time, but I'm just putting thoughts out there to kick around in hopes that we do find a solution. Apologies to Orderinchaos for holding this convo on his talk page, hope you don't mind :-) daveh4h 01:00, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I did not have a problem with this either. I honestly would have been happy with him leaving the articles alone, until I came across the AfD and it was discussed. It gave me a better understanding as to why it was suggested that we remove some articles that just weren't important enough. I liked Die Eir von Satan because it was a perfect example of Tool's "think for yourself" philosophy. Not stopping at the superficial parts of anything(like the fact it sounds like a Nazi rally) and doing your research before making conclusions. Pomte did you see the discussion while it was taking place? Wikidan829 00:35, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I posted in it. A lot of times though, the "importance" of a subject comes down to personal opinion, so there's the slightly different concept of notability, e.g. "Pushit" may be more important, but less notable than "Die Eier von Satan". –Pomte 01:16, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Teaching

Are you planning on becoming a science teacher? Teaching Chemistry is great fun. Best of luck with your studies and many thanks for all of the edits on my articles. Hughesdarren

Bored with life?

Put Cutty Sark on your watch list (I've been watchng it all day) :( SatuSuro 13:40, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Lake Seppings

What happened to the Seppings article? What is all the unit conversion stuff that appears throughout? I can't figure out how to fix it up.

Haha... I was onto it in another article the moment you got it by the looks of things. Someone vandalised the Convert template - fixed now (I'm an admin on Wikipedia so fixing such things is easy once I'm aware) Orderinchaos 13:51, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Page still looks weird. Hughesdarren

Protecting my User Pages

Thank you for protecting my user pages. --Cloak' 19:25, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Hobart to Tas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:WP_Australia Now I see the important issue there - thanks for that! good stuff! cheers SatuSuro 07:56, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Tasmanian Hospitals

Why have you deleted five of my Tasmanian Hospital pages?!? If you're arguing that they are not notable as per your very brief explaination (WP-CORP), I think that is patently wrong. Most of these Hospitals are large employers of Tasmanians, important parts of the state's healthcare infrastructure, and have been regularly featured in media articles.Rac fleming 15:16, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

There are plenty of things which are notable in and of themselves which don't meet the bar for notability within Wikipedia. When I was category sorting I found a whole heap (not just these) of basic stubs which did not assert notability, which were clearly not major or teaching hospitals, and in at least one case had a completely incorrect box (it was for a different Catholic hospital when it was an Anglican one). On checking, similar articles for small hospitals in other states generally didn't exist - in Perth for instance we have literally dozens of small hospitals which are basically glorified clinics with an operating theatre (St Anne's/Mercy, Kaleeya etc) about which little more than their existence and construction and capacity could be built, and about 8 or 9 big notable ones - the equivalent of Royal Hobart, LGH, etc. I do apologise for the brevity of my earlier deletion reason - my only excuse is that I'd gone through literally hundreds of articles that day. Orderinchaos 15:53, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Category:Australian pianists by genre - a category you deleted recently

Hello. A couple of days ago, you deleted this category after moving Category:Australian classical pianists to be a sub-category of Category:Australian pianists. For your information, the relevant Wikiproject's categorization guidelines Wikipedia:WikiProject_Musicians/Categorization#Pre-orders do say that the "Fooian fooists by genre" category is part of the tree, which is why it was created in the first place. I didn't play a part in creating the category guidelines, and am not actually convinced that we need this level of category. However (a) if the guidelines are there, I think we should stick to them until consensus changes, because your (unilateral?) change now makes for inconsistency and (b) perhaps deleting the category yourself without, as far as I can see, a prior discussion at WP:CSD or WP:MUSICIANS, or notifying the good-faith creator first (which might well have been me: now it's been deleted, I can't tell!) was not the best idea. I'm not going to start an edit war with you and recreate the category, but I'd welcome your comments. With best wishes, Bencherlite 18:30, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Restored category and self-reverted - apologies for the confusion and thanks for letting me know. It did seem redundant due to only containing the one subcategory, I admit I wasn't aware of the consensus elsewhere. Orderinchaos 00:50, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

thanks

gidge cleanup - appreciated SatuSuro 06:23, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Templates

Good on ya. I did this years ago with {{Black and Bolton 2001}}; later added quite a few more. Back then templates were new and it was expected that people would make use of them. But gradually the culture of this place changed, and being bold in template space became frowned upon. For some time I have felt uncomfortable about using the template namespace as my own personal bibliographic database. Then all of a sudden I decided what the hell, threw off my reservations, and went about creating templates with a vengeance. The worst that can happen is some pisswit will take them through TfD, and a bot will subst: them all; which would leave me no worse off than if I'd never created them. And in the end, we are responsible for this place's culture - if enough of us start using the template namespace as a bibliographic database, then it will become the norm. Hesperian 11:24, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Very impressed - I can think of about 5 - 10 books and articles that would be heavily used over time - can I have my template lessons soon? SatuSuro 12:08, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I would say the threshold would be around 50 citations. If you think a reference will be cited over 50 times, a template is probably justified. But probably best to wait until you've got 10 actual uses, so that deletion can't be justified on grounds of under-use. When you're ready and have a reference in mind, let me know and I'll talk you through it. Hesperian 12:15, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

P.S. apologies to OIC for crosstalk on your user page. Hesperian 12:15, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks again

My comment to many newbies is 'reverse engineer everything in sight' - maybe i should do the same. Thanks for the info. I think of the comments outside of here - nothing appears to have happened yet, but we can always wait in dumbfounded disbelief whatever happens :) SatuSuro 12:26, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Forgot about cats? ah another early morning mobile phone call again I suspect is needed Hi I am one of the the australian project cat trawlers, and I have found some cats you created, would you please advise me of what you meant by.... heheh SatuSuro 13:01, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi A. :) (by the way you do realise your header says you were on wikibreak *a year ago*?) i have observed the community here is very good and i've already talked to satusaro who has been very helpful. I see I don't need to look far to find your specialty on here :) I'm surprised though, would have expected to find you working mainly on politics. Anyway, talk later! Zivko85 14:54, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Math wiki?

You mentioned on an AfD that you found an interesting small university-based wiki with math info--mind passing it along to me? Thanks. Endersdouble 20:37, 23 May 2007 (UTC) OK. Well, thanks anyway. Endersdouble 20:49, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Aussie pianists by genre

Thanks. I think it's a pointless category-level, as it only has one parent, and will be suggesting so at WP:MUSCAT and WP:MUSICIANS soon in an attempt to change consensus; I'll let you know too when I do so. The only thing that's holding me back at the moment is the thought of all the upmerging that would then be necessary - but, presumably, we could have a nomination at WP:CFD of a decent size sample, seeking advance permission to zap all that are found thereafter, and a bot can do the boring bit! Bencherlite 18:29, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Update - you may be interested in this discussion, particularly as I mention you in passing as an example of an admin perplexed by the current consensus! I have started a discussion here about whether we need the category level of Category:American pianists by genre, etc, and I would appreciate views being expressed (at that location, of course). My (possibly incomplete) list of categories that would be upmerged if the guidelines change as I suggest is here. Best wishes, Bencherlite 22:27, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Speedy delete needed

If youre watching its obvious :( SatuSuro 14:34, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Theres a really weird category vandal at the moment - please could you do something with it? SatuSuro 15:53, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

africans and australian mixes SatuSuro 15:55, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback

Thanks for the feedback. I had spotted the potential WP:COI issue too when I had looked back at the previous AfD debate - but the author made no secret of the fact of his identity at the time and was I thought completely transparent in that first debate. So I didn't find anything untoward there in his openness. It was made clear about that in this debate too but I did not think the authorship of the original wiki article was a significant aspect of this debate. Personally I was not surprised that some users were not frequent visitors, I would be in that class and I was pleased with what I got from an unexpected find in the Out Now article so had it watched. I will look at what you said about Wikia - it may perhaps be a good option to look at. The geographical issue I really was not that comfortable with, I am sure editors are active all over, but the consensus disproprtionately coming from one area and then the same area contributing the closing editor too was not what I thought made for the best process but that is just how it was here. The issues of people getting tagged as single purpose accounts I find problematic as if a user is not a frequent one and then gets caught up in a single debate then they can find themselves spending unexpected amounts of words and contribs loading up on a single topic. I know I did. The point about deleting seeming drastic was that when in doubt I thought policy was not to delete, I guess the closing admin felt not in doubt and I was hoping there may be some kind of review process that looks at the process and/or the article content. To be honest as I feel personally quite exhausted by the week's events I hoped that there exists an edit forum somewhere that may be able to assist me in getting out what is deemed to WP non-notable content and confirming notable content to a WP standard in the final version of the article as I had left it. Thanks again for the comments. JeffStryker 18:31, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Gerald mansar is a sockpuppet?

Greetings! I blocked User:Gerald mansar before seeing your suspicion about sock puppetry. Feel free to override my block or, if preferable, I can go ahead and make my block indefinite, after taking a look at the pattern. —C.Fred (talk) 13:56, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with you. At least Australia doesn't have an extended weekend, so he should be back in school Monday, right? :) (Monday is a Federal holiday for me here in the U.S.) I've gone ahead and blocked his account indefinitely and autoblocked his IP. Not that he may not figure out a way around it, but if he does, that says "determined vandal" a lot more clearly. —C.Fred (talk) 14:15, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Old boot

Hello. You may not know me, but you owe me BIG TIME. I am now going to cash in on this by insisting that you join my crusade against the misuse of user pages. A user, who shall remain nameless, has been creating his own sub-stub wiki and he needs to be taught a lesson. Using my quality assured POS (piece of string) and lacing this through an old boot with a snagger in it, I plumbed the murky depths of our project and found a collection of short articles. I don't understand what this is all about - it seems to have something to do with chestnuts and anime characters - but that is the best and most often cited reason for deleting something. A lot of these titles are in a foreign language, I am reliably informed that it a dead language so it is twice damned. Also, as you maybe aware, this language is often used to refer to VERY RUDE THINGS. I think you will agree that we MUST produce a document that can be read entirely by one person, exclusion of weird and naughty things I know nothing about is the shortest path to this goal. Please delete this article with extreme prejudice before the user inflicts his obscenities on an innocent world. Signed, Hagerman's bot.

Gawd that was him, poor fella, I am sure they have cures for it somewhere, but I think they lost the key. And they call this sunday? I should be fun in the sun on wikipedia day! Good to see youre populating the victoria project - theyre probably all out to lunch - over there, cheers SatuSuro 04:40, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

I notice you haven't deleted that article. A man with a piece of string is not to be trifled with!!! This is your third last warning. By the way, I thought this was just delightful, I found it by clicking random page. Twee stub. Sorry about the anon ip, I'm at work and besides - 'You don't know me ...' 203.161.118.53 16:05, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

My Rfa

Hello, Orderinchaos. I just wanted to drop by to thank you for your kind support on my recent Rfa, it succeeded! I hope to live up to your expectations. Oh, and feel completely free to yell at me if I ever screw things up =) Have a nice day! Yours sincerely, PeaceNT 11:11, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

You are so nice. Thanks once again :) Take care, and see you! PeaceNT 11:15, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Rechristening

I just change mine spasmodically when I come across a page with more than a few of my old sigs on it. I can't really be bothered being too systematic about it though. The Senators one this morning was prompted by your edit coming up on my watchlist. What are we going to do with that template BTW? I see clones have appeared on some of the state House of Reps member's pages. —Moondyne 02:32, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Proposed Micronation Wikiproject

I've published a proposal to gauge the level of interest in setting up a micronation Wikiproject, which I thought might be of interest to you based on your past contributions. Comments and suggestions are welcome: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals#Micronations --Gene_poole 01:55, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your interest. The project proposal above has been successful, so I would like to invite you to add your name to the new project page: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Micronations. --Gene_poole 00:33, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Tortoises

It gave me a laugh too. —Moondyne 05:55, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments

Responded on my talk. Smee 07:31, 30 May 2007 (UTC).

Phone

Do you ever answer it? Thewinchester ^(talk) 08:05, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Too True

Lol
I agree, as you said I have better things to do than restart old arguments and etc. Esp. with all of the stress of the subjects required to get into Engineering at UWA.
Calculus, Applicable Mathematics, Chemistry, Physics and English
And having scotch brought in the new WACE 2A/2B and 3A/3B English Courses. You can't rely only on your TEE mark to get you through, simply because it isn't there. No TEE English.
So, this far, things aren't going quite like I expected them to in Yr 8 (WOW BIG SURPRISE, Who would have thought anything would change in that time)
Though I guess, in the long run, if I don't end up doing that well, having a grandfather like William Harold Clough (Clough Engineering) doesn't hurt either!
But in Re:your comment, Since that, the only word that describes it is, unfortunate day, I have sort of brought myself up to speed on the way things should and SHOULD NOT be done/said on wikipedia.
So as far as I am concerned, the only contributions that I'm ever going to make to Wikipedia are going to be purely factual and un-bias! Providing the sources are correct
Though like you said, if you phased it right, i.e sent an article in about the algae on the swan, or whatever will get the most attn, and managed to slip in something about your actual concern, i.e my topic post, (which I will not discuss), and that I am extremely sorry for and am still regretting posting in the first place, I wouldn't be surprised what you could get printed!
Just kidding, the west australian newspaper does, occasionally, print some excellent material.
Willkca 08:10, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

And since yur a West Aussie I think that you'll understand what I mean when I say "IVE GOT THE OLD FREO HEAVE HO" And that this year we will have glory in September @ the MCG!!--Willkca 08:13, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Lol - Darwin. The lone city!

Hey, I might be able to help with that cuz my uncles got a farm in the hills, god knows where. And down south my other uncle has a house in Eagle Bay and one in willyabrup. So if ya need sum info, they probably have the necessery documents. So just let me know. Another suburb that pretty far away frm me (Mosman Park) is East Vic Park where my dad lives. So Either of those aswell. Just let me know. And the fact that you even did lit in 12. THATS the suicide part of it. BTW what school did you go to?--Willkca 09:46, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar

		The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
		I, Smee, hereby award Orderinchaos with The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar. For positive and polite clarification in article discussion, as well as your thousands of contributions related to expanding knowledge on Australia. Thank you. Yours, Smee 08:14, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

pics

Good doogs; can't wait. Hesperian 12:14, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Edit times

Trust you keep your sanity. One of the reasons for wandering into the outback roads is like fish in oz - two horribly chaotic and insufficiently systematic sections. Thanks for the assesses SatuSuro 23:51, 30 May 2007 (UTC) Im incognito Hezbolarki Fun Ship 08:21, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

help

article editor need your input on what we can do Gnangarra 15:07, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

WP:Deletion review

I removed part of my own deletion review commentary after realizing some people might misinterpret it as a threat or an ultimatum. — Rickyrab | Talk 23:47, 31 May 2007 (UTC)