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User talk:Pigsonthewing/Citations - the future

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Hmph[edit]

The issues I see with this right off the top of my head:

  1. No one wants to go look up some obscure Q###### thing for a source right in front of their face. We want to add that source info and keep editing.
  2. If there's a typo in a citation (or some other change that needs to be made), we want to fix it in situ not have to go hunt it down in some database somewhere.
  3. Even how to cite a source can be different from context to context. For a book written by different authors per chapter, I might want, at one article, to cite {{cite book |chapter=The Foo of Bar |last=Smith |first=Jane |title=Bazz Quuxian Perspectives |editor-last=Jones |editor-first=Bob |pages=230–257}}, for the chapter by the individual writer. In another context, I might want to cite {{cite book |title=Bazz Quuxian Perspectives |editor-last=Jones |editor-first=Bob |pages=28, 233, 577}} for one claim made in several places in the book, without getting into specific detailia about who wrote which chapter. We don't want a {{Cite Q}} forcing a particular set of citation details on us.
  4. A system like this would impede my ability to rip a WP article on the Manx cat or Jack Bauer for my non-WMF CatWiki or 24Wiki that uses MediaWiki and has replicated en.WP's basic citation templates, but is not tied to WMF databases.
  5. There are probably several others.

Just because something can be moved out of WP articles doesn't mean that it should be. I don't see what the point of this is, other than making citation code shorter at the expense of making citations much more difficult to use, and an enormous pile of code somewhere else, both to store the data and to make the exchange possible.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  16:12, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

PS: On a re-read, I realize this sounds like "No! You will never convince me!" I mean it more like "WikiData scares me, and I'm a creature of habit. How is this not going to be hard and scary?"  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  22:45, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

To address the last point in your main post ("Just because ..."); consider the analogy with images, held centrally on Commons, so that they may be used by 290 Wikipedias and other sister projects, and so that an edit to that one single file improves the instances of that image rendered on all of them. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:12, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@SMcCandlish and Pigsonthewing:From a different perspective, after I have transcribed the book at Wikisource, then added the information at Wikidata, I am fully loaded with the Qnnnnnn and ready to have the easiest possible means to utilise a template with the Qnnnn to add a citation, or a work as a further reading and have it populate on a WP page. I just ask that the module will be able to pull suitable data, and create a wikilink like [[s:Title|Title]], and maybe even pull the transcription status of a work. — billinghurst sDrewth 14:30, 8 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Billinghurst and Pigsonthewing: FWIW, I find this all less weird now. And something else encourages me to think outside en.wiki's box when it comes to source data: the extreme deletionist hostility of a certain camp of editors, toward source-specific citation templates, like the several hundred that various wikiprojects and individuals have created and which we still have (for now) despite previous deletion sprees. At this point, I would happily support something that let me insert something like {{Cite Q|Q#######|page=45|access-date=8 August 2016}}, even if some bot expands and substitutes it later.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  20:51, 8 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW I had asked the question at WD about this matter, and it was said that svWP has an operational component with sv:Module:Cite. I haven't explored further. — billinghurst sDrewth 06:07, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I plan to put together such a template, shortly. But see what the response was, when I mentioned that at Help talk:Citation Style 1#Citation data via Wikidata recently. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:10, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

When is the future[edit]

How far are we from something like this? Where can I monitor the progress? czar 06:50, 4 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Czar: See meta:Wikicite. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 08:28, 4 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That's what brought me here, but it's unclear where the Module:Cite work is matching up vis-à-vis {{Cite Q}} czar 08:39, 4 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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