User talk:Plinul cel tanar

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Hi [redacted]

(Redacted) Do you want to join the Intelligence task force, This is an invitation. Thanks Danielbughi999 (talk) 02:19, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Right.Plinul cel tanar (talk) 14:12, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

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Paliga, Vinereanu

Good evening!

I'm talking about your edit in Historical names of Transylvania. Paliga and Vinereanu are part of the few challengers of the Hungarian origin theory in Romania, as far as I know, the only notable in modern linguistics/historiography, and quite important for that reason. So why not include them in the Romanian view section? Unreliable source doesn't rule out someone from Wikipedia, or does it? Gyalu22 (talk) 19:35, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi. In most cases WP:Fringe does rule the source out of wikipedia unless it's notable enough to be discussed as as a fringe source. Vinereanu certainly isn't notable for anything. Paliga's case is debatable. His Dacianism might have just attracted enough attention to make him notable as a fringe source (see Dan Ungureanu's[1] text here[2]) ... although I would argue the contrary. Also, this is a slippery slope. There is a bunch of other "sources" out there. An Orthodox seminary teacher out there claims Ardeal derives from "har" (divine grace) and "deal"(hill). I'd rather err on the strict side here. Furthermore I don't understand why there is a "Romanian view" and a "Hungarian view" on this issue. Plinul cel tanar (talk) 02:19, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

So we can exclude Vinereanu, but why Paliga? I think he's notable enough to be included in the article. WP:FRINGE writes this:

There are people who are notable enough to have articles included in Wikipedia solely on the basis of their advocacy of fringe beliefs. Notability can be determined by considering whether there are enough reliable and independent sources that discuss the person in a serious and extensive manner,

The link you've sent proves that my point. Gyalu22 (talk) 07:47, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Notability can be determined by considering whether there are enough reliable and independent sources that discuss the person in a serious and extensive manner. I think one source in one article is not enough. Furthermore, Dan Ungureanu's text was published on a blog. A blog with major following but still a blog. If we had a research paper on pseudoscience referencing Paliga directly this would help... Plinul cel tanar (talk) 07:54, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

I mean if a random lexicon with a legendary figurative explanation can go through the filter... Gyalu22 (talk) 13:24, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

I won't make this my Alamo but hear me out. There is a difference between an obsolete source and a fringe source. An obsolete source may legitimately be presented because it reflects the state of knowledge at a certain moment in time. The Budapest Lexicon is a landmark in Romanian linguistics (it still has uses some uses in modern research but that's a different story). A contemporary, fringe, pseudo-scientific source should not be used because it fuels pseudoscience. It is only when the pseudo-science becomes notable per se that we present it as such. As a side note, I don't know if you realize how strong Drăganu's argument is. Lazăr Șăineanu in his celebrated 1929 dictionary already indicated only the Hungarian etymology. The "l" in Ardeliu is an inter-vowel "l", there is no way for it to have survived in Romanian from ancient times - see Rhotacism. This is a smoking gun proof that the word is a high medieval loan. Plinul cel tanar (talk) 15:02, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

You're right, thanks for giving a fair reason. Gyalu22 (talk) 17:45, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

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