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Archives 2/2006 through 3/29/2006

Lost cities

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Debate about my entry The Lost Cities of Spira (Final Fantasy X, X2) which has been suggested for merge with the main Spira page kept by PiccoloNamek

  • Most of that information is already included in the article, and much of it seems far too technical for inclusion here, and would be better suited for Wikibooks. Many of the descriptions are very short and curt and would not fit well with the somewhat more flowery story-like writing of Spira. I do not think it should be, or needs to be, merged.PiccoloNamek 02:50, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fine by me, I kept it apart because I wasn't sure it belonged there anyway... Renmiri 03:04, 4 February 2006 (UTC)Renmiri[reply]
  • I just did a small section on the changes from FFX to FFX2 and I tried to do it "flowery". See if you can use it. Renmiri 21:15, 4 February 2006 (UTC)Renmiri[reply]
As a bystander, "flowery" is okay to a degree, but just make sure you're not POV ^_^ Deckiller 01:22, 5 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Pictures I have uploaded

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All were captured using game screen capture. I only loaded the "impossible to find" pictures, such as Pukutak, Dona, etc..

Renmiri, I've noticed that not all of these images have source information. I expect that you've screen capped most of these yourself (as some of them do say), but this should be noted in the image description itself, otherwise they're liable to be tagged for deletion. In addition to the hassle of providing a fair use rationale, we're supposed to provide information regarding where each and every copyrighted image we upload was obtained. – Seancdaug 19:03, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Considering the complaints I've already had from you just for trying to help, I'm leaving the issue in the community's hands. I went through the trouble of documenting fair use for each picture I scanned, and entering details from the sources 1, 2, 3, 4, which you deleted. Which is harmful for your claim of "fair use" IMHO considering that 90% of the images on the articles for Spira and FFX / FFX2 have been scanned from the books the books should be mentioned in a page of their own. It is NOT fair use to scan half of the book and refuse to give it prominence on the Enciclopedia IMHO. I will leave the images as they are, and if anyone deletes them so much the better Renmiri 20:23, 11 February 2006 (UTC)Renmiri[reply]
Renmiri, I'm getting a little bit tired of being attacked for trying to help you avoid having your images deleted (as has happened to many other people, myself included). I have not, at any point, deleted anything you have uploaded. First of all, I am not an administrator, so I do not have that power. And even if I were, I would not do so. In this case, all I did was to warn you that other editors will likely target these images (and simply because of an almost certainly unintentional misapplication of our complicated copyright policies that most editors have probably been guilty of at some point or another). I have tried to remain civil to you throughout this mess, and I see that your response has been to effectively libel me at multiple locations. All else aside, I do suggest that you read Wikipedia:Fair use criteria, as I'm not sure where you got the idea that we need to have a seperate article for the source of image we claim fair use on. There are plenty of images taken from artbooks, promotional materials, and other resources used to illustrate a particular person, concept, or character that can be defended perfectly well under fair use. Just because we use images from a particular book does not mean that we need to have an article on that book: we simply need to acknowledge that the image came from that book on the image description page. – Seancdaug 20:39, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Funny you should mention Wikipedia policies, I seem to recall reading about not biting the newcomers which I surely feel you DID NOT follow by deleting four pages (1, 2, 3, 4) I spent a lot of time doing without a single message and without leaving it for consensus. This is definitely NOT the experience I had so far with other users here on Wikipedia, some of them with a lot better claim at being right than you. I had even blogged about my good experience on my blog, which you manage to spoil. I put the image and at he books they were scanned issue up for review at the project page, so we can have consensus. Your view will stand on it's merits and so will mine. But I am also real tired of this discussion so I entered a request for mediation Renmiri 23:09, 11 February 2006 (UTC)Renmiri[reply]

Fair use images on your user page

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Hi, please turn all the fair use images on your user page and talk page into links instead (insert a colon (:) before the name, [[:Image:... instad of [[Image:... that is) or something like that as soon as possible. Wikipedia policy doesn't allow fair use images to be displayed in userspace (see Wikipedia:Fair use#Fair use policy), and acording to this report you have 100 of them on your userpage (if you have fair use images on other userspace pages please fix those too). I'm working pretty much at random off that list, so don't feel singled out. Eventualy I'll get around to them all (though hopefully I'm not the only one working on it). Thanks in advance. --Sherool (talk) 01:54, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Done!
Do I have to do the same on Wikibooks ? Renmiri 02:21, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well I'm not rely into the Wikibooks project, but I would asume so. The only thing I could rely find on fair use on theyr policy pages was a link to our policy here. Probably best to keep the usage of such images to a minimum (as in only within actual articles/modules) across all Wikimedia projects. The ones that allow fair use at all that is. Thanks for the swift action by the way. --Sherool (talk) 02:36, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Thanks for uploading Image:FLORAL2.jpg. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Wikipedia because of copyright law (see Wikipedia's Copyright policy).

The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Copyright information on images is signified using copyright templates. The three basic license types on Wikipedia are open content, public domain, and fair use. Find the appropriate template in Wikipedia:Image copyright tags and place it on the image page like this: {{TemplateName}}.

Please signify the copyright information on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me or ask for help at Wikipedia talk:Image copyright tags. Thank you. -- Carnildo 06:24, 9 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Final Fantasy X / X-2 articles

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Renmiri, I don't want to appear overly harsh here... but please desist from creating articles for every single piece of merchandizing tie-in for Final Fantasy X and Final Fantasy X-2. Wikipedia is not a fan site, and, generally speaking, that means that we do not create articles for things such as strategy guides and artbooks. In the case of Final Fantasy X-2 Ultimania, I placed the information in the trivia section because there does not seem to be enough useful information about the subject to warrant a seperate section in the article: the mere fact that something is a book does not necessarily make it notable. It is in no one's interests to create dozens of stub articles when the information contained within them can be adequately presented in one place: it leads to unnecessary duplication of information, and makes maintaining things much more difficult (for instance, to add information regarding the Shinra/Shin-Ra connection, it becomes necessary to make substantive edits to three or more articles). – Seancdaug 18:56, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Respectfully, I disagree: the Soundtrack has it's own page, the DVD has it's own page. The books need their own page, at least one page with a list of all books and a small commentary on them. The Shinra / ShinRa conection does not belong on the main page IMHO. It is a very controversial theory that appeared in ONE interview in 2003 on the book you just deleted. It belongs on that book page and nowhere else Renmiri 19:32, 11 February 2006 (UTC)Renmiri[reply]
The DVD does not have its own page, actually (it was another one of the items I merged). The soundtracks have their own page because of size management issues (the track listings make the articles too long to effectively merge). If the only rationale for having an individual article on a book is because of a piece of trivia that is not notable enough to include on the main article page, then that speaks very poorly of the notability of the book itself. Also, "commentary" (though I'm not entirely sure how you mean to use the term here) is largely inappropriate for Wikipedia, falling under the realm of literary criticism, which violates neutral point of view. More to the point, standard practice and style requirements (both for the Final Fantasy WikiProject, as evidenced here, and for Wikipedia as a whole, as evidenced here and here) frown upon such highly nuanced articles. And, for the record, I have deleted nothing. However, I will nominate these articles for AfD, if necessary, and I highly doubt, given past experience, that they will survive the process. I'd rather it not come to that, however: I would suggest that, in place of these Wikipedia articles, a brief summary be presented in the "trivia" section of the game article (or in a short section of its own, a la here), and an interwiki link be provided to either the Final Fantasy wiki or Wikibooks. – Seancdaug 19:47, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Moreover, even if I believed that the Final Fantasy X-2 books article was warranted solely on account of the Shinra/Shin-Ra connection (which I do not), it does not need to be mentioned twice in that same article. I would ask again that the information be merged into Final Fantasy X-2 and that you attempt to seek input and consensus before creating even more unnecesary article sprawl. – Seancdaug 19:50, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding your threat to list the contents of Category:Final Fantasy albums at AfD, be my guest, but be aware that you would very likely be violating WP:POINT in doing so. In any case, there's no reason the interviews cannot be mentioned in a brief prose paragraph (unlike track listings, which should follow Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums style guidelines). And by "nuance," I mean "detail": I was simply suggesting that, while this a precedent for having album articles, there is no precedent for articles dedicated to individual artbooks/strategy guides/what-have-you, and that they have traditionally be removed as fancruft. More to the point, articles should first and foremost reflect usage: as the books in question are largely unknown to the majority of English speaking readers, they are unlikely to be accessed except by those who stumble across that information in the main game article. Which means that there is no need to create a seperate article for reasons other than space management. At this point, we simply do not have enough information about the books (or the DVDs, for that matter) for more than a paragraph or two, and there's no reason we can't add another paragraph or two into the main game article. Creating stubs for information like this means that either they will perpetually remain stubs, or that they will serve as a beacon for unencyclopedic fancruft as part of a misguided attempt to destub them. Which is the reason why the creation of articles like this is frowned upon in the first place: new information should generally be added to more general existing articles and, if necessary, later spun-off into a new satelite article. – Seancdaug 20:10, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. Look at the Star Wars cruft: I've been narrowing down what was once 500 stubs; nearly half of them were stuffed with 2-3 paragraphs of original research and/or speculation. Furthermore, the ones that were legit were usualy less than 2 paragraphs, and required merging into an organized list. By placing this into the main article, we are countering the possibility of pointless expansion associated with stubs (like Sean said) and giving readers a brief background. This is a general interest encyclopedia, after all. Deckiller 20:15, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You two are forgetting that 90% of the images on the articles for Spira and FFX / FFX2 have been scanned from said books, so at least for better justifying claims of fair use the books should be mentioned. It is NOT fair use to scan half of the book and refuse to give it prominence on the Enciclopedia IMHO. And will wager that SE agrees. Renmiri 20:17, 11 February 2006 (UTC)Renmiri[reply]
I went through exactly what you did back in July: I created a laundry list of red articles for very minor items. However, I quickly learned that it was not the thing to do, and I became a mergist. We're not trying to destroy your enthusiasm, if anything, we RESPECT it and want you here as a contributor (which is why we are taking the time to talk with you). Merging helps keep everyone on Wikipedia happy in some way or another; it's a compromise, and a way to keep things combined and organized. Deckiller 20:19, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
(Response to what was just written): We can't give every refernece its own article, but we can cite it and explain the general details somewhere on the page, and, for fictional items, the main page is the place. Deckiller 20:19, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Renmiri, I am sorry if this is frustrating you, but that is the nature of Wikipedia. We are part of a collaborative project, and these discussions, believe it or not, have been had many dozens of times already. A WikiProject was established to help coordinate our efforts, and to establish guidelines. The upshot to this is that no one, least of all me, is singling you out for abuse. I'm merely doing my part to enforce the guidelines, previously established consensus, and goal of Wikipedia (namely, to create a general interest encyclopedia accessible to everyone). You clearly have a lot of good information, and I absolutely do not mean to chase you away, but, again, I feel that a lot of the detailed information you've added is better suited to a more specialized resource. We can always link to it after the fact (which is particularly easy for other Wikimedia projects, like the aforementioned FF wiki). As it is, I've put up a formal merger request at Talk:Final Fantasy X-2, so that we can get wider input on the subject. As I've said, my previous experience indicates that such articles do not last long, but it is probably best, at this point, to gauge the reaction of the community-at-large. – Seancdaug 20:27, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We might also want to make a note on the Wikipedia:WikiProject Final Fantasy/things to do page. Deckiller 20:29, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

When did I "bite" you?

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Renmiri, when, exactly, did I bite you? I did not attack you, I assumed good faith, and I tried to correct what I felt (and still feel) were well-intentioned, but ultimately mistaken, edits. Furthermore, when you decided to start revert my changes, I attempted to explain my reasons to you civilly. That I disagree with you does not mean that I have "bitten" you. And you still insist on repeating the blatantly false claim that I "deleted" your contributions. Please refrain from making further ad hominem attacks against me. I honestly did not want to get into a fight with you, and, to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure what I've done to deserve this kind of treatment. – Seancdaug 21:06, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the mediation cabal: that's fine. I expect it will help to get a fresh perspective on this. Honestly, though, reversions and redirections are common practice on Wikipedia, and even encouraged (see Wikipedia:Be bold). I would expect the same behavior from you, if our positions had been reversed. Given previous experience with articles like this, I simply went ahead and corrected what I saw as a mistake, and tried to explain why in my edit summaries. I'm sorry that you took this as a personal affront, and I cannot stress strongly enough that such was never my intention: I was simply working from precedent established through similar discussions among other editors in the past. Given that consensus, it was actually my intention to spare you from having to go through that controversy in public. The only thing that really sparked my "personal attack" comment was the fact that you keep saying that I "deleted" your contributions: "delete" is a specific term on Wikipedia that is much more permanent than what I did, which was simply to redirect the articles (your original edits are still there in the edit history). I was also a little hurt that you insisted upon bringing my name up repeatedly on various talk pages, when I made a specific point of not mentioning you by name, or spreading our argument beyond our two talk pages. – Seancdaug 21:27, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Also, I apologize for the "my patience is wearing thin" remark, and I realize I probably shouldn't have said it begin with. But it was solely intended as a response to the fact that you were still saying that I "deleted" your edits, despite the fact that I had already pointed out to you that I had done no such thing. There was no deeper meaning to the comment, and I can't begin to say how sorry I am that it did not come across that way. – Seancdaug 21:36, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Moving on

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I, Seancdaug, present this barnstar to Renmiri in recognition of the excellent Final Fantasy screenshots he has provided for use on Wikipedia. – Seancdaug 00:53, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Renmiri, just a note to clear the air following the mess with the mediation cabal. I did catch your most recent edits to the page, and I now feel that I understand more fully your complaint. I think you misread a lot of what I had to say (I certainly didn't mean my comment about AfD as a threat, for instance), but I know that I have no one to blame but myself for that. I have a frequent tendency to be overly didactic and strident, and I'm sorry you wound up on the receiving end of it. More than anything, the mediation request has once more impressed upon me the importance of communication (and the related requirements of WP:AGF, WP:BITE, and WP:CIVIL) between editors; I hope it has done the same for you, and that I have at least succesfully explained why I feel that I was being attacked. In any case, I hope we can put this incident behind us and move on. Also, in the interests of proving that I really don't have anything personal against you, I wanted to present you with this barnstar, on account of the numerous excellent images that you have uploaded to Wikipedia. – Seancdaug 00:53, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would also like to say I'm sorry if I was a little hard. Deckiller 00:55, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Moving on is fine with me. I now feel you understand what got me frustrated and I also respect the work that all of you have been doing prior to my recent collaborations. No hard feelings left on my side. That goes for you too Deck ;-) Renmiri 03:13, 12 February 2006 (UTC)Renmiri


List of Pictures

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All that I uploaded to check if I put the fair use tag

Mediation

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The case you submitted doesn't follow the template. I inserted the the correct template {{medcab2}}; would you please fill in the template? I think we can assign a mediator to your case immediately afterwards. --Fasten 19:13, 23 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Final Fantasy X / X-2 conformity

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Thanks for letting me have first crack, but, as you can see, I wasn't around much during the weekend. I saw your changes, and the article's looking good. Sorry for the belated response. – Seancdaug 01:52, 1 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Roomba Tagged Images

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The following images were deemed "unused" by a Wiki robot named Roomba. Despite many pleas and a ton of work, Roomba is slowly deleting all the images I uploaded. As of today, 33 images from the list below are gone. If you want any of them back go talk to Roomba's master Gmaxwell and he may be able to help you. I gave up after too many unheard pleas Renmiri 21:29, 5 March 2006 (UTC)[reply] 

   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Yonkun.jpg; 20:24 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Yaibal 3.jpg; 20:22 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Yaibal.jpg; 20:22 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:YENKE.jpg; 20:21 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Valefor 3.jpg; 19:46 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Tromel.jpg; 19:18 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Trema.jpg; 19:14 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:TOBLI.jpg; 18:33 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Shoopuf 3.jpg; 17:51 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Shoopuf2.jpg; 17:50 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Shoopuf1.jpg; 17:49 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:SHIVA1.jpg; 16:30 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:SHELINDA.jpg; 16:30 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Rinffx2.jpg; 16:09 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:RONSO.jpg; 15:56 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Pukutak.jpg; 15:42 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:PUKUTAK.jpg; 14:49 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:PARROT.jpg; 14:47 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Orhaland.jpg; 14:41 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Opmihem.jpg; 14:37 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:NHADALA.jpg; 14:01 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Moonflowffx 27.jpg; 13:43 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Moonflowffx.jpg; 13:42 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Moonflow 8.jpg; 13:42 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Moonflow 4.jpg; 13:41 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Moonflow 24.jpg; 13:40 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Moonflow 18.jpg; 13:39 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Mikamonks.jpg; 13:15 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Maroda.jpg; 12:52 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Lucil.jpg; 12:32 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Luca 2.jpg; 12:28 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Luca 1.jpg; 12:27 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:LUZZUS.jpg; 11:50 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:LIAM.jpg; 11:46 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Kimahriffx.jpg; 11:35 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Kidfayth.jpg; 11:33 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Hypello 1.jpg; 10:36 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Hypello.jpg; 10:35 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Haize.jpg; 10:12 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Floatpalace 13.jpg; 09:03 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:Ffxcoverart.JPG; 08:55 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:FFXART03.jpg; 08:48 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
   * (diff) (hist) . . m Image:FFXART02.jpg; 08:48 . . Roomba (Talk) (WARNING: This fair use image has been tagged as orphaned because it is not used inline. If it is not used in the article namespace within 7 days, it will be speedy deleted.)
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[edit]

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Re: "Attaboy"

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Thanks a lot, Ren. You do very awesome work yourself. Ryu Kaze 01:15, 3 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re: FF edits

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Thanks very much. I'd love to help out with the FF WikiProject. Do I just edit the roll call section and add my name? Finduilas 09 16:12, 3 March 2006

FF Bestiary

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User Talk:Renmiri/Bestiary

Just wanted to say...

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Good work with all you've done on the Wikibooks Illustrated Guide to Spira. It looks like you've put a lot of time and effort in and your work is exceptional. I say it probably dwarfs our Wikicities efforts. Really nice job.

I'll try to pop in over there and help out from time to time if that's okay. Ryu Kaze 19:06, 5 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re: "Help w/ Japanese"

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You got "sayounara" correct, actually (two kanji and then two hiragana), but what it maps to needs to be in katakana.

So it's

"左-様-な-ら" to "ラ-フ-ハ-ナ"


With the Japanese version of Al Bhed, as long as you know for sure the sounds that were ciphered, it's pretty easy from there just to match the kanji and/or hiragana up with the appropriate katakana from this table. If you're ciphering them yourself, though, without the benefit of already knowing what katakana they map to, it's a whole other story. XD

Kanji can have multiple readings depending on how they're conjugated, so if you're ever looking to practice this or something (I imagine only I'm geek enough to have tried that), just remember that the conjugations are more important than the individual kanji.


Oh, and as for the Al Bhed language page, I agree that this is the best thing for now. Perhaps later it can be merged somewhere more appropriate, like the main FFX page, or into a page for constructed languages. I'm going to go restore the Al Bhed article on the Races page to what it was now. Good job. Ryu Kaze 13:35, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

FF Art Book

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I don't really feel we should add that information to the article anyway. Although I'm sure it would fit well somewhere else. Personally, I think that we should ignore the FAC page and pretend it never happened.PiccoloNamek 04:01, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If you think Spira is good, then tell that guy on the talk page that you don't want it peer reviewed.PiccoloNamek 04:57, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sphere Break

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May I invite you to join the debate at Talk: WikiProject Final Fantasy? Thanks. Flooch 06:40, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

User page

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Hey. Thought I'd let you know that I finally got around to establishing some content on my user page. The barnstar now has company. See you later. Ryu Kaze 14:25, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Little girls

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Kids are, indeed, the greatest. ^_^ Ours is 3 and will be 4 in September. Her first word was either "pizza" or "shiva." I'm not sure. Either way, I was blamed for it. XD

I've known a father of four who loved Final Fantasy X as well, though he had to wean himself on the games because he got addicted. XD He finally gave his game away so he wouldn't play it anymore. XD

And just ignore stupid people. Don't let what they say take away your enjoyment.

Oh, and about PN: basically, he'd been stressing out in worry over the Spira page since October of 2004, sadly. With all the proposals lately (FA status, Peer Review, etc.), he just got really nerve-wracked, and then Nnfolz's proposals capped the stack (not so much because of Nnfolz himself, or his proposals; it was just that his worry had finally capped and he needed to let it go), so he decided to retire from the page and he's doing a lot better now, he says. It sucks that he's had to do that, but if it's the best for him, I'm glad for him and won't try to talk him out of it. Ryu Kaze 17:23, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Dream Zanarkand

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Hey, Ren. I read over the thread, and I'll touch on the relevant things from the UOG:

As Bahamut's fayth says, Yu Yevon is neither good nor evil, and exists only to summon Dream Zanarkand. As such, his instinctual focus is given entirely to preserving Dream Zanarkand and the purpose for which he created it (to be an ideal paradise, uninfringed by the outside world). He knows he needs to possess the aeons and create Sin anew to protect himself -- and thereby protect the summon -- so he does so instinctually, as you thought.

He also will "reset" the memories of Dream Zanarkand citizens if their thoughts threaten the isolation of the city. For instance, if one of them began to think "I wonder what lays beyond the horizon," this thought would be plucked away from them. If they were to ever see a ship from the mainland, this would be taken from them too. The idea of one of them touching Sin and then being taken to the mainland, however, never occurred to Yu Yevon previously, so it's not one of the things he was worried about once he became instinctual. It was a small loophole that would bring Yu Yevon down eventually, because after touching Sin, Jecht was made independent of Yu Yevon's ability to change him for some reason (probably because it altered the composition of his pyreflies in some way, but who knows for sure).

Also, as that other fellow mentioned, though only the fayth on Gagazet are used to summon Dream Zanarkand, there's something of a mental frequency that all fayth are privy to by nature of being fayth. As such, they're all mentally linked to each other. They're like a huge hive. The fayth of the aeons like Bahamut actually enjoyed hanging out in Dream Zanarkand for a good 1000 years or so. They'd go there and have a fun time and such, but when Jecht became a fayth, he was on that frequency with them for a little while, and they could all see into his thoughts and feel his feelings, and they came to understand what he'd experienced, and -- for the first time -- understand just what the people in Spira went through. They then decided that it shouldn't be allowed to go on any longer, and chose to help in ending the spiral. Bahamut's fayth was chosen as the representative of the fayth collective, by the way, which is why he's the one who seems to be the most important.

I hope that answers everything. Feel free to ask anything else. Have a good one! Ryu Kaze 04:14, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re:

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You're welcome, Ren. Glad to be of help. I'll take a look at that site you mentioned. It sounds kind of familiar. Ryu Kaze 04:35, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Post-FFX/Pre-FFX-2 timeline

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Hey, Renmiri. I thought you might be interested in this part of the timeline I translated from the FFX-2: International+Last Mission Ultimania:

[Immediately after FFX]

  • Spira's Eternal Calm begins
  • Many groups begin to dissolve
  • Brother and Buddy discover the airship Celsius
  • Trema closes down the training facility on the Calm Lands. The depowered Yevon priests begin a motion to put forth the truth

Half a year later [after FFX]

  • Sphere Hunters begin appearing at this time
  • Wakka and Lulu marry
  • Trema establishes the New Yevon party. He begins monopolizing the collection of spheres

1 year later [after FFX]

  • Nooj founds the Youth League
  • Trema enters the mausoleum of Saint Bevelle (after this, he disappears), and destroys the collected spheres
  • Kimahri becomes the elder of the Ronso Tribe
  • The Youth League begins rebuilding the port of Kilika
  • The New Yevon party's second generation chief ascends [to power] and his son is inaugurated as praetor
  • Gippal forms the Machine Faction
  • Brother becomes a Sphere Hunter. He founds the Gullwings

2 years later [after FFX] [Eternal Calm]

  • Rikku shows Yuna the "Journey's Start Sphere" that Kimahri found. Yuna leaves Besaid
  • Yuna joins the Gullwings
  • A bloodless coup d'état occurs within the New Yevon party. The party chief and praetor fall from power, and Baralai is inaugurated as the [new] praetor


Have a good one. Ryu Kaze 16:43, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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