User talk:Rturtle

Mindful Eating Article (copied from my talkpage)

I'm the original author of the Mindful Eating article. I see that it was deleted without discussion for the reason that "(cited sources do not support article)" Can you be more specific? Or point out some areas that you feel require further sources. This field is growing very quickly and there are a great many additional sources I can cite. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rturtle (talk • contribs) 13:32, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

What I mean is that I looked at the articles given as sources, and they really don't talk about any such Buddhist practice by that name. Sure, there's stuff online about "eating mindfully", but you could just as easily find sources about "driving carefully" or "acting naturally". The Swithers article really isn't connected to this, and neither is the one at Psychosomatic Medicine; rather, you're presenting supported scientific statements, and then saying "Mindful Eating lets you counteract these". The Yoga article at the FHRC is closer to being a source to support your statements you made, but it still doesn't really say anything about your basic premise. If you want, I'll restore it to your userspace - but don't put it back in mainspace until you've consulted with me. Okay? DS (talk) 14:42, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Please restore it so we can discuss it. I'm going from memory of it since I don't have a copy. There are books that I referenced that also support the article, one "Mindful Eating: A Guide to Rediscovering a Healthy and Joyful Relationship with Food" by the Pediatrician and Zen Monestary Buddhist Abbot Dr. Jan Chozen Bays http://www.greatvow.org/teachers.htm, the other "Eating Mindfully," by Dr. of Psychology Susan Albers, and I can't recall if I referenced the book by Dr. Jane Goodall "Harvest for Hope: A Guide to Mindful Eating".

The article needs to be greatly expanded but Mindful Eating basically breaks down into the three sections. The Zen, the Psychological, and the Ecological. Many people strive to incorporate all three aspects into the practice of eating mindfully, which is why I included them all. The books are much better reference material than the links. The Swithers article is about research and impacts of the mind-body connections. Can you please expand on your comment that the article presents scientific statements that mindful eating lets you counteract? That certainly was not intended if that's how some aspects came across...

Rturtle (talk) 13:07, 12 February 2010 (UTC)rturtle

Situation report

My computer is in the shop for the next... few days, maybe? I'm currently using a machine at the convenience store down the block. Dealing with complicated matters such as your issue is really not an option just now.

You may wish to consult another administrator in the interim. DS (talk) 18:05, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

How can we work on this?

Can you please restore this article so we can improve it? I do not believe that it met the criteria for speedy deletion and I would be happy to provide additional references in any areas you feel may be required. This is a concept that is rapidly gaining steam and really needs to begin to be developed here.

Rturtle (talk) 21:42, 18 February 2010 (UTC)Rturtle

My computer has a new power supply, so I can address this issue at greater length now. I'll show it to some other administrators for their opinions, and if they agree, I'll put it back in your userspace. DS (talk)

You had already stated you would put it back in my userspace but have not. Again I've reviewed the criteria for speedy deletion and this does not meet any of criteria and should not have been deleted from the main in the first place. [1] Please restore it to main. This has been over ten days now. I can understand overlooking the books I referenced in a first read through but not after I have clearly pointed them out. Although there is no criteria stating they must be... they are mainstream books and this is a mainstream concept. [2]

Your stated reasons for deletion were "I looked at the articles given as sources, and they really don't talk about any such Buddhist practice by that name. Sure, there's stuff online about "eating mindfully", but you could just as easily find sources about "driving carefully" or "acting naturally". I have pointed you to the sources that clear this up.[3] I really don't understand what we are doing now?

Rturtle (talk) 04:55, 21 February 2010 (UTC)rturtle

Sorry for the delay

Here. DS (talk) 05:40, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Mindful eating DRV

Now that the content has been restored to your userspace, are you happy for the DRV to be closed? If you are going to work on it further in your userspace, you can submit a new request to get it moved to the article namespace when this is complete if the consensus among the admins you're discussing this with is that such an approval is necessary (it sometimes is and sometimes isn't). If the current situation is not what you wanted, then could I encourage you to clarify what you are looking for in the DRV. Cheers, Thryduulf (talk) 13:28, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Book references added

Ok to move back to main now, people? If I hear no objections I'll move it back over tomorrow. Rturtle (talk) 02:14, 22 February 2010 (UTC)rturtle

I'd like a few other admins to look at it first, okay? DS (talk) 12:52, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm fine with that... and I'm fine with anything anyone can do to contribute or guide me towards improving the article. I'm clearly a novice editor, but I feel strongly that this topic is notable and should be included. Can we agree to work towards that end?Rturtle (talk) 22:01, 22 February 2010 (UTC)rturtle

The main problem that's stopping this from being in mainspace is that several key points are unsupported by both the sources you provide, and the sources available. The most prominent example is the claim that it is often related to Buddhism, which is not supported by several of your sources (and not mentioned in many of the results from a Google Book search for "Mindful Eating"). The sources used should describe "mindful eating" in detail and in depth, not giving a brief mention, because as DS has said above, "mindful eating" is a common phrase like "driving carefully." Also, you should try to avoid synthesis and original research in your sourcing. For example, the section "Weight Loss" has two paragraphs, the first of which contains several cited statements about sugars, then an unsourced claim about how Mindful Eating will counteract that, but without sources. Until better sourcing occurs (try the above Google Books search, and a Google News Search for help), it should stay in userspace and be developed here before it's deemed acceptable for moving back into mainspace. --Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 22:24, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for for the link and for being specific. The very first google book result in the link you posted is a book I now cite as a reference: "Mindful Eating" by Dr. Jan Chozen Bays. A search of that google book listing for the terms Buddhist or Buddhism yields multiple references as Dr. Bays is both a Buddhist Abbot and a PediatricianPage 1 Dr. Bays is considered to be one of the leading authorities on the topic. The next book by Dr. Susan Albers has references to the Emotional Eating section, and the forth book by Jane Goodall discusses the ecological implications. I do see your point about the claim that Mindful Eating may counteract the effects of artificial sweeteners. I will work on improving that section or eliminating it... Does this clear up the other claims? Thank you again, for helping to clarify this. Rturtle (talk) 22:57, 22 February 2010 (UTC)rturtle

I'll have a look in the morning. DS (talk) 05:34, 26 February 2010 (UTC)