User talk:Schwede66/Contributions

Michael Joseph Savage

I note that in response to my deletion of the NZ Conscientious Objectors category for Savage, on the ground that he was not a CO, you have restored the category with the bare comment, "Yes he was".

My reasoning for the deletion was:

1. There was no mention of any conscientious objection in the article, and even after your pointed restoration of the category, there is still no mention.

2. There is nothing in the article to indicate either a general opposition to war or opposition to a particular war. Even his opposition to conscription in WW1 was qualified by preference for it to be accompanied by conscription of wealth.

3. The opportunity for him actually to have been a CO was so limited as to have been virtually negligible. The only period in which he could have been a CO was between November 1916, when NZ conscription came into force, and March 1917, when he turned 46 years of age, and thereby became too old for call-up. Theoretically, his name could have been selected in the ballot during that period, and he could then have made a stand as a CO, but if that was true, why is it not spelt out in the Wikipedia article, and why is it not mentioned in other biographical material, such a story being made the more remarkable both by the very close shave of being called up within weeks of being too old and the fact that he later became prime minister during WW2 and instituted conscription in that war.

So what is your evidence for your confident assurance that Savage was indeed a CO, and why have you not set it out in detail in the Wikipedia article?

I have done my best to increase the number of those in the category NZ COs, but the category would be worthless if inflated by any unsubstantiated claim.

I am always wary of any category attached to an article that is not substantiated by the content of the article. If there were a category of New Zealand anti-conscriptionists, Savage, and a number of others, would fit well into it, but that is a very different category from NZ COs.

I look forward to your comments. Mountdrayton (talk) 22:51, 9 July 2015 (UTC)