User talk:String tree

February 2023[edit]

Hello, I'm Fieryninja. I noticed that you added or changed content in an article, J. M. W. Turner, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so. You can have a look at referencing for beginners. If you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Fieryninja (talk) 07:46, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi,

That J M W Turners family had recently (a few years) moved to London before his birth is widley known in South Molton where he came from and where I live.

Sadly the hour or more I've spent searching this morning has only produced a blog spot (https://blogs.bl.uk/untoldlives/2017/08/old-dad-turner-and-son-in-twickenham.) which is not the kind of source I would reference.

I wished to dispel the notion that he was a Londoner (Cockney) his father would have had a strong west Country accent.

I remain confident in the truth of my addition but the first few pages of online results only contain the same information often word for word.

I haven't found the vocabulary for a more successful search.

Still finding my way,

String tree String tree (talk) 09:36, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi String Tree. Finding a reliable source is often the trickiest part but necessary so that other editors can verify the content, even if it is widely known in a particular area. WP:CITE may be useful to you. Hopefully you will find the source you are looking for. All the best. Fieryninja (talk) 11:47, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You're quite right. Sorry to waste your time. You will apreciate it's difficult when I went to school with two of his famillies decendants.

I will persue the matter when I get the time. String tree (talk) 16:13, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Will you consider:

Turner’s father, raised in nearby South Molton but long established in London, had visited Barnstaple earlier in the same year, apparently on family business.1

https://www.tate.org.uk/art/research-publications/jmw-turner/joseph-mallord-william-turner-barnstaple-r1137142 String tree (talk) 16:49, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Got it :)

https://www.tate.org.uk/art/research-publications/jmw-turner/joseph-mallord-william-turner-1775-1851-r1141041

"Joseph Mallord William Turner was born, it is thought, on 23 April 1775 at 21 Maiden Lane, Covent Garden, London, the son of William Turner (1745–1829), a barber and wig-maker, and his wife Mary, née Marshall (1739–1804). His father, born in South Molton, Devon, had moved to London around 1770 to follow his own father’s trade." String tree (talk) 16:58, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi String Tree. This is a good source. You can try adding the information to the article, written in your own words of course, and add the citation as shown in WP:CITE. If any editors disagree with your entry and it is reverted for any reason, you should then discuss it on the article's talk page to avoid an WP:EDITWAR. Best wishes Fieryninja (talk) 18:01, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

May 2023[edit]

Please do not add original research or novel syntheses of published material to articles as you apparently did to Bandy. Please cite a reliable source for all of your contributions. I'm not sure quite what you're intending to say by adding this Scottish 16th century quote to the top of the article's history section, but if you are interpreting it as an explicit reference to the sport of Bandy, this is inappropriate original research. Belbury (talk) 18:02, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The description of the game Bandy in the A Devonshire Dialogue by Mary Palmer (1716 – 27 May 1794) is quite clear:

"Bandy,s. a game, like that of Golf, in which the adverse parties endeavour to beat a ball (generally a knob or gnarl from the trunk of a tree,) opposite ways. From Bendan, Sax. to bend; because the stick with which the game is played is crook'd at the end;..."

https://archive.org/details/adialogueindevo00palmgoog/page/n40/mode/2up

I have undertaken no original research the research was undertaken by Mary Palmer durring her lifetime. The link works I am unclear what the problem is, can you clarify?

The earlier reference which has also been removed I will investigate.

thanks String tree (talk) 15:58, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I was referring to your other edit at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bandy&diff=prev&oldid=1154792884, which added the text "Kingdoms... be no balles for me to bandie." Raphael Holinshed's The firste volume of the chronicles of England, Scotlande, and Irelande, 1577.

If you're intending to imply that this quote specifically refers to the sport of Bandy, that would seem to be original research. I certainly can't find any sources to back it up, and one suggests that the quote may be about tennis.

If you were only intending to illustrate that the word "bandy" was a verb used in some unidentified 16th century sporting metaphor, it would be better to say that directly, rather than leaving the reader to guess what the quotation might imply about the sport of Bandy. Belbury (talk) 17:06, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The reference and link I had posted refrencing Bandy as described by Mary Pralmer in mid C17th Devon (Torrington) has also been removed. It should be replaced as it is clearly factual, it is earlier, country specific, not on ice or in the fens and makes plain failures in almost every other paragraph of the page.

The refernece to Bandy as a C16th ball game between at least two players was something I found surprisingly old. I have had a look at Raphael Holinshed's The firste volume of the chronicles of England, Scotlande, and Irelande, 1577 and it is completely impenatrable. I'm happy for the reference to be removed. I'm sorry to have wasted your time. String tree (talk) 15:44, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's a curious quotation! Bandy#Etymology gets into the deeper history of the verb bandy in a sporting context, you're welcome to write about the quote in that section if you feel it has something to say.

The Mary Palmer quote is still there, it's just been moved to the end of the paragraph. Belbury (talk) 16:14, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The reference has been mangled beyong reason The date of publication 1837 is long after the autheress was dead and buried.

A Devoshire Dailogue was assembled in the mid C17th when excerpts were shown to friends and some published. String tree (talk) 16:45, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I couldn't see "mid C18th Devon" in the source cited, so just went with the date of publication, describing it as such. By all means change the sentence if you think it could be improved further. Belbury (talk) 16:57, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Mary Palmer was the author of Devonshire Dialogue, considered by the Dictionary of National Biography in 1895 to be the "best piece of literature in the vernacular of Devon". It gives an account of the customs, characters and dialect unique to western England. Written in the middle of the 18th century, it was shown to friends and extracts were published in periodicals during her lifetime, without being attributed to her."

From Mary Palmer wikipedia

Her grandson wrote the glossary before publication in 1837 I am unsure of the extent to which it is reasonable that he could be certain of her meaning (or could through discusion with his older friends and relatives) .

I think it's fair enough.

I will not rewrite the entry (if it can be rewriten, some concise vocabulary will be needed, perhaps better than mine?). String tree (talk) 16:44, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That seems fair enough, I've updated the article as you suggest. Belbury (talk) 16:58, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]